The Tuchel Thread

[Tomo 21,733]

8 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Only Conte can match Tuchel as a coach. If Tuchel wins the PL, he would even surpass him

Conte's record in Europe counts against him. The fact Lampard has got through the group stage as many times as him is damming. 

If he can fix that then he's certainly in the conversation with the top tier (of recent times).

[Jase 43,479]

18 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Only Conte can match Tuchel as a coach. If Tuchel wins the PL, he would even surpass him

Wait, you don't rate Mourinho and Hiddink 1.0? 😮 

[OneMoSalah 8,785]

5 hours ago, Atomiswave said:

I for one wouldnt say they are ahead based on what we have seen eventhough both Guss and JM had better teams.

I don’t think we can really compare what Tuchel’s done tactically in 6 months against what Mourinho did tactically in his first 2 seasons though and say Tuchel is ahead of him. Or even Contes team. I think maybe only Conte and his title winning team really rivals Mourinho 1.0 really in terms of tactics right now for me. People don’t remember how good Mourinho was at pinpointing a weakness and implementing a game plan around that or finding a way to expose that tactically.

And not to discredit Tuchel but a lot of what he’s had to work with and done tactically are roughly based around something we have done before in terms of the shape from under Conte with his own touch on it obviously, more emphasis on counter pressing and maybe a lot more flexibility in terms of the front 3s movements but there are a lot of similarities in how we defend.

When he adds his own players, we will see an evolution I am sure, then if he is as successful as I and we all hope he will be, we can start saying that. If we hadn’t played 343 before with Conte I don’t think the transition/pick up of results would of been as smooth/sudden.

[Jase 43,479]

9 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

And not to discredit Tuchel but a lot of what he’s had to work with and done tactically are roughly based around something we have done before in terms of the shape from under Conte with his own touch on it obviously, more emphasis on counter pressing and maybe a lot more flexibility in terms of the front 3s movements but there are a lot of similarities in how we defend.

When he adds his own players, we will see an evolution I am sure, then if he is as successful as I and we all hope he will be, we can start saying that. If we hadn’t played 343 before with Conte I don’t think the transition/pick up of results would of been as smooth/sudden.

If Conte hadn't played the back 3 with us and been successful with it, I doubt other managers and teams would have played a system that was out of fashion. 

[OneMoSalah 8,785]

4 minutes ago, Jas said:

If Conte hadn't played the back 3 with us and been successful with it, I doubt other managers and teams would have played a system that was out of fashion. 

Rodgers did have a good run with it at Liverpool the year they nearly won the league tbf but didn’t use it again after. Then got sacked the next season IIRC.

But Conte did reinvigorate it really although he had been using it in Italy a lot with Juve and Italy NT.

Edited July 2, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, OneMoSalah said:

Rodgers did have a good run with it at Liverpool the year they nearly won the league tbf but didn’t use it again after. Then got sacked the next season IIRC.

Yup he did. Martinez also did it at Wigan. But don't think anyone really took notice of that because they didn't have any success to go with the system.

3 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

But Conte did reinvigorate it really although he had been using it in Italy a lot with Juve and Italy NT.

True but I think Conte proving the system can be successful in the Premier League was what made it popular again.

[OneMoSalah 8,785]

3 minutes ago, Jas said:

Yup he did. Martinez also did it at Wigan. But don't think anyone really took notice of that because they didn't have any success to go with the system.

True but I think Conte proving the system can be successful in the Premier League was what made it popular again.

Yeah definitely.

Wenger and Pep got involved and started using it at times after Conte switched. Even Koeman tried matching us up with it and we tore Everton apart. 

Van Gaal was another who used it before also and United were almost ridiculed playing it with him.. just shows

Edited July 2, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Yeah definitely.

Wenger and Pep got involved and started using it.

Van Gaal was another who used it before also and United were almost ridiculed playing it with him.. just shows

Yup. Think there were at least 10 teams in the Premier League last season that played that system either permanently or on several occasions. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

12 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

I don’t think we can really compare what Tuchel’s done tactically in 6 months against what Mourinho did tactically in his first 2 seasons though and say Tuchel is ahead of him. Or even Contes team. I think maybe only Conte and his title winning team really rivals Mourinho 1.0 really in terms of tactics right now for me. People don’t remember how good Mourinho was at pinpointing a weakness and implementing a game plan around that or finding a way to expose that tactically.

And not to discredit Tuchel but a lot of what he’s had to work with and done tactically are roughly based around something we have done before in terms of the shape from under Conte with his own touch on it obviously, more emphasis on counter pressing and maybe a lot more flexibility in terms of the front 3s movements but there are a lot of similarities in how we defend.

When he adds his own players, we will see an evolution I am sure, then if he is as successful as I and we all hope he will be, we can start saying that. If we hadn’t played 343 before with Conte I don’t think the transition/pick up of results would of been as smooth/sudden.

I didnt mean that TT is ahead of them 2, just that he has done stupendiously transforming us is such a short time with a bunch of " younglins " while tactically schooling every elite manager out there.....this commands respect and recognition.

[Jase 43,479]

Has been voted Germany's Manager of the Year, ahead of Hansi Flick and Edin Terzic. 

[Tomo 21,733]

On 02/07/2021 at 23:03, OneMoSalah said:

I don’t think we can really compare what Tuchel’s done tactically in 6 months against what Mourinho did tactically in his first 2 seasons though and say Tuchel is ahead of him. Or even Contes team. I think maybe only Conte and his title winning team really rivals Mourinho 1.0 really in terms of tactics right now for me. People don’t remember how good Mourinho was at pinpointing a weakness and implementing a game plan around that or finding a way to expose that tactically.

I would say tactically (in terms of in game battles with other managers) Tuchel is ahead of Conte.

Conte has a really good system that is perfect for league football but in head to heads against other elite or even just good managers where small details win or lose games he often gets found wanting, hence his record in cups. 

[Clockwork 1,794]

Comparing Tuchel few months of football at Chelsea to Conte two seasons doesn’t seem fair.  Very impressive start by Tuchel, but Conte first year was incredible too. We will see if Tuchel can sustain it.

[NikkiCFC 8,058]

15 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

Comparing Tuchel few months of football at Chelsea to Conte two seasons doesn’t seem fair.  Very impressive start by Tuchel, but Conte first year was incredible too. We will see if Tuchel can sustain it.

Yes, CL title changes everything but if you look only PL, Conte in first season won 93 points. 49 in first part of the season and 44 in second part. TT 38 points which is 76 full season if he did the same.

Conte in 2nd season 70 but also won Fa Cup.

But again RDM also won CL. 

So this season will tell a lot. Less than 85 points with this squad is not acceptable for Tommy.

Edited July 25, 2021 by NikkiCFC

[Tomo 21,733]

28 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Yes, CL title changes everything but if you look only PL, Conte in first season won 93 points. 49 in first part of the season and 44 in second part. TT 38 points which is 76 full season if he did the same.

Conte in 2nd season 70 but also won Fa Cup.

But again RDM also won CL. 

So this season will tell a lot. Less than 85 points with this squad is not acceptable for Tommy.

How you win a UCL should be factored too.

Robbie was a written in the stars job (old guard on last legs and his good karma from his career ending injury) while under Tuchel we went pretty much the entire knockout round without relying on any real rub of the green going our way, even Barca 2011 were a better Bendtner first touch from going home in the R016.

[OneMoSalah 8,785]

3 hours ago, Tomo said:

I would say tactically (in terms of in game battles with other managers) Tuchel is ahead of Conte.

Conte has a really good system that is perfect for league football but in head to heads against other elite or even just good managers where small details win or lose games he often gets found wanting, hence his record in cups. 

Aye perhaps but still I think we need to see what Tuchel does this season tactically because a managerial change always provide that bounce run of results 9 times out of 10 although his impact was clear, changing the system, getting a real balance and ultimately a much more effective way of playing.

I think as well when we compare this next season when its finished to the 6 months from last season also it will give us a good indication of how good he really is.

My only concern with him and it’s something he spoke about himself I think, is that he maybe sometimes gets the inclination to tinker too much. Like at Mainz and Dortmund he would regularly chop and change a lot, the systems and players. Or even players positioning. He has already had a few games here where he’s mixed things up personnel wise too but In Germany he was notorious for it. 

Edited July 25, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[MoroccanBlue 5,320]

Personally, the jury is still out on Tuchel. I trust his approach in the big games, but over the course of a season and against low blocks, there are still massive question marks. 
 

 I would’ve waited until next January to extend his current contract but I understand the clause that automatically extended it after winning the CL. As things stand, we should be contending for the league. 

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Personally, the jury is still out on Tuchel. I trust his approach in the big games, but over the course of a season and against low blocks, there are still massive question marks. 

I would’ve waited until next January to extend his current contract but I understand the clause that automatically extended it after winning the CL. As things stand, we should be contending for the league. 

TBF, his initial contract was only 18 months and I believe the club did the right thing to extend it, to give him that bit of security and ensure that there is no doubt over his position going into the new season. What I have a slight issue is that the contract extension is until 2024, instead of say 2023 but I suppose the club won't have any issues paying the compensation if they have to sack him.

[ZAPHOD2319 4,519]