The Tuchel Thread

[Superblue 6,372]

So if we decided to sack Tuchel, somebody please let me know who at the football club has the experience and football knowledge to look at the group of players we have and the direction we want to go in, and choose the right football manager for both of those aspects?

Are we backing Boehly or Clearlake to make these decisions?

If Pep walked out the door at the end of the season, City have the footballing background on their board and in the sporting director positions to identify a replacement that suits the club and the players.

As I mentioned earlier until that football structure is in place it's pointless making this decision. That will be Tuchel's saving grace at present and buy him time to turn this around. How much time I'm not sure but he definitely has to get the team moving in the right direction quickly because once that structure is in place (and I'd assume we'll be looking to make those appointments this side of the World Cup and January transfer window) if things haven't improved he will unfortunately be on borrowed time.

[MoroccanBlue 5,320]

10 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

I'm not saying he's blameless, but preparing a team is not only about the manager. Fitness is usually extremely important esp early season where the smaller clubs will be super fit pre-injuries.

That list has one elite player: sterling. It was fairly lackluster IMO.

 

So the football we play is justifiable then because we only brought in one elite player?

You are talking bollocks mate. 

[Special Juan 27,541]

Let me make this as clear as possible, the players have chucked it.

TT is outnumbered.

[Pizy 18,538]

2 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

Let me make this as clear as possible, the players have chucked it.

TT is outnumbered.

This isn’t a case where we were doing well, then there was a turning point where everything went wrong, and now the players turned on the manager. That’s what makes this so confusing.

I don’t really get the vibe that the players have turned on him at all. It just looks like whatever he’s doing in training isn’t working AT ALL for whatever reason. 

[Special Juan 27,541]

Just now, Pizy said:

This isn’t a case where we were doing well, then there was a turning point where everything went wrong, and now the players turned on the manager. That’s what makes this so confusing.

I don’t really get the vibe that the players have turned on him at all. It just looks like whatever he’s doing in training isn’t working AT ALL for whatever reason. 

Not one good performance this season.

[Vegetable 830]

Same talk with Sarri and same talk with Lampard; Those players are not (mostly) children, it's not like they play Tuchel FC, so what's the point of mentality they show on the pitch right now? They should be acceptably good with any manager and even without one.  

[robsblubot 3,580]

32 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

So the football we play is justifiable then because we only brought in one elite player?

You are talking bollocks mate. 

that's not what I said. I said it's down to a lot of things, not only the manager. That's why I disagree with the notion, "sack the manager because he was backed and could not build an elite side!"

What we see on the pitch is always the result of many weeks' time. If that work happened late, poorly, or not at all, we will see that reflected on the pitch -- just as we do today. My point remains, the lack of proper work can be down to a number of reasons, and I do see evidence of those reasons being at play. While the manager isn't blameless, as he is part of the process, he's far from being the only responsible.
 

[OneMoSalah 8,810]

3 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

Let me make this as clear as possible, the players have chucked it.

TT is outnumbered.

Definitely a lot of blame on the players. Maybe just for making poor mistakes/decisions/effort more than anything. 

I mean we have played a 352, a 343, a 4222 this season and thats after people kept saying change to 4atb or 3atb. Its clear that it isn’t a formation issue, its the personnel in it. 

If theres something going on behind the scenes, I don’t know, but poor performances and body language is worrying. TT isn’t a manager to mince his words either in public so whether or not the pre season comments after the Arsenal game, the soft team comments, the need for quality players comments etc haven’t gone down well either (but it’s not like he’s wrong in most instances) but whatever’s going on, I don’t see a team fighting for each other, to turn their fortunes around or for their manager who is maybe under pressure. 

[Reddish-Blue 2,396]

3 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Definitely a lot of blame on the players. Maybe just for making poor mistakes/decisions/effort more than anything. 

I mean we have played a 352, a 343, a 4222 this season and thats after people kept saying change to 4atb or 3atb. Its clear that it isn’t a formation issue, its the personnel in it. 

If theres something going on behind the scenes, I don’t know, but poor performances and body language is worrying. TT isn’t a manager to mince his words either in public so whether or not the pre season comments after the Arsenal game, the soft team comments, the need for quality players comments etc haven’t gone down well either (but it’s not like he’s wrong in most instances) but whatever’s going on, I don’t see a team fighting for each other, to turn their fortunes around or for their manager who is maybe under pressure. 

Well of course the comments haven't gone down well...it's almost the same set of players he had last season (with the exception of Werner, Lukaku leaving and the two CB's departing on free transfers).  

Feels like Tuchel is trying to be Mourinho when facing the media but he doesn't have the ability to drop players like Mourinho did in the past.  

The real problem is, if you're playing like shit and you get to start every week, how does that make every other player feel in the team?   It's not like we have a Hazard or Lampard to save the day with a goal or assist. 

[Pizy 18,538]

15 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

Not one good performance this season.

I know. But the players turning on the manager at the very start of a season just makes no sense. It usually happens after months of poor results. Why would they down tools when things have barely started to get going?

I think this is all down to training and tactics. Whatever he’s doing with them during the week must be going stale or something. 

[Reddish-Blue 2,396]

17 minutes ago, Pizy said:

This isn’t a case where we were doing well, then there was a turning point where everything went wrong, and now the players turned on the manager. That’s what makes this so confusing.

I don’t really get the vibe that the players have turned on him at all. It just looks like whatever he’s doing in training isn’t working AT ALL for whatever reason. 

To be honest, the start of last season, things were going relatively well, then we sort of struggled, then we had issues at the back end of last season with Lukaku wanting out.   The start of this season is just replicating what happened at the end of last season.  There are CLEARLY two players who don't want to be here (Pulisic and Ziyech) and not only did we keep them, we're actually playing them.  

I would be shocked if Fulham don't win the match on the weekend, Mitrovic will have a field day against our CB's.   This has shades of that infamous Mourinho season where we were 15th or 16th before Uncle Guus came in to paper over the cracks. 

[Superblue 6,372]

4 minutes ago, Pizy said:

I know. But the players turning on the manager at the very start of a season just makes no sense. It usually happens after months of poor results. Why would they down tools when things have barely started to get going?

I think this is all down to training and tactics. Whatever he’s doing with them during the week must be going stale or something. 

It's not the case of a brand new manager though. Mourinho's third season started as a train wreck, as did Conte's second season and neither improved much if at all. 

It's easy in times like this to think it's been no worse before. I remember the 2-0 loss against Leicester under Lampard, the Watford loss under Conte and multiple performances under Mourinho that were similar to this. 

The managers don't get a free pass. At the end of the day it is their job to find solutions and motivate and create an environment for players to thrive in. But let's not get it twisted there has been a cultural toxicity within the club almost throughout the Roman era. One which lent too much power to the players over 'dispensable' managers. Once those big characters started to leave the club one by one, the ability to go again under a new manager and new voice in the changing room began to wane but that culture has still remained at the club. 

Whether it's Tuchel or an alternative they pick, it's one of the things that the new ownership have to change because at present it feels a never ending cycle.

[Henrique 9,133]

Im 100% against the idea of sacking Tuchel right now, for one simple reason: this time there is no one in charge of the football activity. There is no proper director of football, and disaster of the last transfer window is a proof. I mean, the team was the top spender, and yet the squad is weaker than it was last season. Liverpool, City, Arsenal, United, Spurs have better squads. 

Right now the club have 0 direction, and it was expected. I mean, the club was sold in a hurry and out of nowhere there is a new owner, the previous board completely left the club. So, building a new direction takes time. 

About the "power to player" thing, this is nonsense. I mean, in any football club in the world, the stability comes from above. The so called "managers" nowadays are no more than coaches, and they are "dispensable". It happens in every professional club. Guardiola went to City, because he realized that there were people running the club that would allow him to implement his ideas. City, to other side, hired Guardiola. He is not your average manager, he is a different breed of manager. He is probbaly one of few managers in the world that is as big as players in terms of sucess and name, and in some cases, he is the biggest star of the club. 

Since Mourinho MK1, we never had a manager of this caliber. Tuchel isnt this kind of manager, he is a good manager, but he has his limitations, but right now, it doesnt make sense to sack him. This season is the first time the excuse of "transition" makes sense. Priority this season must be building a new board that understand what football is and hiring people who understand what it takes to build a sucessfull club. Say whatever you want about previous board, but Chelsea was by far the most successful english club of past 20 years, in terms of major trophies won.

[DDA 9,729]

I do not agree with these ridiculous statements, ''our squad is weaker than last season'' and ''we've signed poor players''

The only player that looks bang out of sorts is KK.

The rest of our signings are really good acquisitions and I'm more than confident they will come good.

Sterling is an upgrade on Werner all day long.

Cucarella was absolutely needed in case Chilly gets injured.

Aubameyang is twice the player Lukaku is... don't even try telling me anything different.

Fofana is extremely promising but its alot to expect a youngster to shine when they team is playing this badly.

Unfortunately TT has spent too much time trying to force this bullshit 3 at the back to help Thiago Silva play. I get it, Thiago brings alot to the team but in doing so, TT has completely lost it, he'll bent on sticking with a system that no longer suits the personal at his disposal. 

It's time to drop your favourites and play the right person in their correct position or just fuck off and let a manager come in and use the abundance of talent we do have. 

 

[Clockwork 1,794]

5 hours ago, Vegetable said:

Same talk with Sarri and same talk with Lampard; Those players are not (mostly) children, it's not like they play Tuchel FC, so what's the point of mentality they show on the pitch right now? They should be acceptably good with any manager and even without one.  

Sarri was playing good football by the end of the season, he just needed a few more players. His trajectory was up, Tuchel trajectory has been down for a while.

[Clockwork 1,794]

How about Luis Enrique? He pretty much did what Pep did at Barca but with a better winning percentage.

[Henrique 9,133]

1 hour ago, DDA said:

I do not agree with these ridiculous statements, ''our squad is weaker than last season'' and ''we've signed poor players''

The only player that looks bang out of sorts is KK.

The rest of our signings are really good acquisitions and I'm more than confident they will come good.

Sterling is an upgrade on Werner all day long.

Cucarella was absolutely needed in case Chilly gets injured.

Aubameyang is twice the player Lukaku is... don't even try telling me anything different.

Fofana is extremely promising but its alot to expect a youngster to shine when they team is playing this badly.

Unfortunately TT has spent too much time trying to force this bullshit 3 at the back to help Thiago Silva play. I get it, Thiago brings alot to the team but in doing so, TT has completely lost it, he'll bent on sticking with a system that no longer suits the personal at his disposal. 

It's time to drop your favourites and play the right person in their correct position or just fuck off and let a manager come in and use the abundance of talent we do have. 

 

Squad is weaker, and its not even a top 5 material. Its weaker because compared to the opposition, the team was left behind, despite being the top spender. 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Henrique

[DDA 9,729]

17 minutes ago, Henrique said:

Squad is weaker, and its not even a top 5 material. Its weaker because compared to the opposition, the team was left behind, despite being the top spender. 

How is it weaker? 

The only good player we lost is Rudiger.

Christensen was hit and miss. 

Lukaku is an absolute donkey.

Werner couldn't hit a barn door and when he did hit it, his pathetic finishing was show to be just that against a goalkeeper of note.

The problem is Tuchel with his indecisive tinkering of formation and tactics whilst trying to shoehorn certain players into a system that doesn't suit them. He also fucked up not prioritising a midfielder to replace Kante.