The Tuchel Thread

[Tomo 21,751]

10 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

Would you rather Arsenal finish in top 4 or Europa? As opposed to United or Spurs..

Personally not sure what would be the better outcome.

For me, none of them are ambitious/well run enough to take advantage of it and kick on anyway so meh.

If pushed I'll say Arsenal because of how secure it will make Arteta.

[ZAPHOD2319 4,801]

16 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

Would you rather Arsenal finish in top 4 or Europa? As opposed to United or Spurs..

Personally not sure what would be the better outcome.

I would rather Spurs because Levy will not increase the transfer budget for making top 4, but both United and and Arsenal will. 

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

7 hours ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

I would rather Spurs because Levy will not increase the transfer budget for making top 4, but both United and and Arsenal will. 

He will have to do so with Conte though, plus as an elite level manager he also has pulling power for players.

He has effectively walked away from top top clubs because of this, he isn’t going to bluff with Spurs either, if Levy doesn’t put up a bit more he will go. And if Levy is willing to do that then he will feel a bit of backlash to say the least, from their fans.

I agree with @Tomo, Arsenal top 4 is better than Spurs. Because they really aren’t going anywhere anytime fast, they’re good for 3/4 weeks, then shite for another 3/4. 

[Strike 7,474]

Know there were no indications he's leaving but this quote is still welcome

https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1519307151856001026?s=20&t=qqOt9-5utdxKd1hoBiNhOw

 

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Strike

[ZAPHOD2319 4,801]

 

[ZAPHOD2319 4,801]

 

[Superblue 6,372]

 

[Clockwork 1,794]

Being 20 points out of first place is not good enough, next season will tell us a lot about him.

[Strike 7,474]

8 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

 

Well deserved. He's the glue holding the club together in the last two months

[Clockwork 1,794]

You guys have a way of going overboard of worshiping managers, i am lukewarm on Tuchel. I think he is solid enough to get us top 4, but I have not seen anything to suggest he can get us to compete against City and Pool in the league. 
 

[Superblue 6,372]

20 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

You guys have a way of going overboard of worshiping managers, i am lukewarm on Tuchel. I think he is solid enough to get us top 4, but I have not seen anything to suggest he can get us to compete against City and Pool in the league. 
 

I think there are huge positives to take from Tuchel.

The biggest one being that for the past 18 months under him we've competed against the very best sides and often been at the very least their equal and at times superior. He hasn't lost in 5 games under Klopp's Liverpool (penalties notwithstanding), he's beaten Pep's City 3 times, Conte's Spurs 3 times, Simeone's Atletico twice, Real Madrid twice. From a competitive perspective we're back at that level consistently and he has to take a lot of the credit for that because the majority of these players under Sarri and Lampard before him struggled against the very best teams.

There has been progress this season in the league. Obviously not enough to compete currently with Liverpool and City but we should finish 3rd and realistically our league season has completely petered out because we've been relatively safe in that spot for months. Consistency is something that needs to improve in our league form to challenge for the title. I saw a stat the other day too that we're in the top 3 teams in the league for most points lost from a leading position with 20 which is far too much for a team in 3rd. Rightly or wrongly, it also isn't coincidental that the two poor runs in the league we've had this year came over Xmas when we were ravaged with injuries and covid, and recently with the sanctions and dark cloud hanging over the club's head.

It is also easy to forget the time Pep and Klopp have had at their clubs. Pep's City when he inherited them were already strong and it was a struggle him getting them in the top 4 the first season. He spent £400m in the first two summers in the club to reshape them. Klopp took a couple of years to get Liverpool in the top 4 and I'm pretty sure they also lost 3 cup finals before winning one. The process can take time.

I believe with the right backing and recruitment, Tuchel is at a level as a coach where over the next couple of seasons he can get us closer to the top 2 whilst also keeping us competitive and in the hunt for cups. 

I don't foresee a situation where the new ownership coming in will be as trigger happy as Roman. I think they'll be realistic in where we're currently at in comparison to Liverpool and City and we may be a couple of years and a couple of good transfer windows away from sustaining a title challenge. But with this in mind, and perhaps a more patient and settled approach in the manager/coaching department, I think Tuchel is probably the best manager throughout Roman's era at the club to be trusted with a longer term, patient approach. For me, at present, there's no other manager around that I'd be happy replacing him with.

[Clockwork 1,794]

54 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I think there are huge positives to take from Tuchel.

The biggest one being that for the past 18 months under him we've competed against the very best sides and often been at the very least their equal and at times superior. He hasn't lost in 5 games under Klopp's Liverpool (penalties notwithstanding), he's beaten Pep's City 3 times, Conte's Spurs 3 times, Simeone's Atletico twice, Real Madrid twice. From a competitive perspective we're back at that level consistently and he has to take a lot of the credit for that because the majority of these players under Sarri and Lampard before him struggled against the very best teams.

There has been progress this season in the league. Obviously not enough to compete currently with Liverpool and City but we should finish 3rd and realistically our league season has completely petered out because we've been relatively safe in that spot for months. Consistency is something that needs to improve in our league form to challenge for the title. I saw a stat the other day too that we're in the top 3 teams in the league for most points lost from a leading position with 20 which is far too much for a team in 3rd. Rightly or wrongly, it also isn't coincidental that the two poor runs in the league we've had this year came over Xmas when we were ravaged with injuries and covid, and recently with the sanctions and dark cloud hanging over the club's head.

It is also easy to forget the time Pep and Klopp have had at their clubs. Pep's City when he inherited them were already strong and it was a struggle him getting them in the top 4 the first season. He spent £400m in the first two summers in the club to reshape them. Klopp took a couple of years to get Liverpool in the top 4 and I'm pretty sure they also lost 3 cup finals before winning one. The process can take time.

I believe with the right backing and recruitment, Tuchel is at a level as a coach where over the next couple of seasons he can get us closer to the top 2 whilst also keeping us competitive and in the hunt for cups. 

I don't foresee a situation where the new ownership coming in will be as trigger happy as Roman. I think they'll be realistic in where we're currently at in comparison to Liverpool and City and we may be a couple of years and a couple of good transfer windows away from sustaining a title challenge. But with this in mind, and perhaps a more patient and settled approach in the manager/coaching department, I think Tuchel is probably the best manager throughout Roman's era at the club to be trusted with a longer term, patient approach. For me, at present, there's no other manager around that I'd be happy replacing him with.

No doubt Tuchel had some solid results against those teams, but H2H only prove unique advantages. Over 38 games we see the team quality as a whole. 
 

Pep and Klopp showed improvement every year, with Tuchel it is the opposite We were better in his first couple of months than we are now.

I don’t see Tuchel in the same realm as Pep and Klopp, I see those guys as visionary and club builders. Tuchel is more like Carlo, game day manager driven and focused. 

[Superblue 6,372]

5 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

No doubt Tuchel had some solid results against those teams, but H2H only prove unique advantages. Over 38 games we see the team quality as a whole. 

Pep and Klopp showed improvement every year, with Tuchel it is the opposite We were better in his first couple of months than we are now.

I don’t see Tuchel in the same realm as Pep and Klopp, I see those guys as visionary and club builders. Tuchel is more like Carlo, game day manager driven and focused. 

As I said though look at some of the situations the club has had to experience in the second half of this season. There's absolutely no doubt that the club has to become more consistent, and with City and Liverpool showing no signs of slowing down at present, you can't afford many slip ups to keep pace with them. But this didn't happen over night for either of them too. They've had the time and resources to build at their clubs. 

As a club we weren't title challenging before Tuchel, and with the greatest respect to Lampard, we had absolutely no direction. Despite all the drama in recent months around the club he has been a constant settling presence. 

Can Tuchel replicate Klopp and Pep? I don't know. So far I'd say he's made enough improvement in 18 months to suggest he's worth holding on to and finding out with over the next couple of seasons. Klopp took a lot of time to get things right at Liverpool and Pep took a lot of money. Neither had immediate success with squads they inherited, like Tuchel has had. If he's given a longer term project to build the club/squad in his image who's to say he can't make it a big success?

[Tomo 21,751]

5 hours ago, Clockwork said:

No doubt Tuchel had some solid results against those teams, but H2H only prove unique advantages. Over 38 games we see the team quality as a whole. 
 

Pep and Klopp showed improvement every year, with Tuchel it is the opposite We were better in his first couple of months than we are now.

I don’t see Tuchel in the same realm as Pep and Klopp, I see those guys as visionary and club builders. Tuchel is more like Carlo, game day manager driven and focused. 

It's not as linear as that. Klopp took two and a half years (and the best GK, CB and CDM in the world) to break away from the level we're currently at.

[Mário César 1,232]

Tuchel deserves one more season (at least).

Let's see what will happen next year and after that we can make a better avaliation of him