The Tuchel Thread

[Jase 43,479]

6 minutes ago, Vesper said:

"When Frank was here they controlled and dominated games but couldn't finish it off.

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

12 minutes ago, Jas said:

tbf the last 2 games were exactly like the average game under Lampard. Control or not we would always create a fair few chances and miss most of them just like at the moment. It seems the team just shows their true colours after some time under any manager. We have to cut out the deadwood that is holding us back. Lampard at least understood that Alonso, kepa, jorginho are pants and need to be sold. Now TT still trusts them and lost us the final with this stupid judgement.

[Mário César 1,284]

Choose Alonso was a mistake, but choose Kepa was even worst.

I know that I'm telling the same, but what I feel since Mendy play (since Tuchel arrived) is that the defence its more confidente, more calm. Panic simply doesn't exist. This feeling is sharing with supporters. When I see that Mendy is choose to play, i'm feel relaxed. I don't know how to explain and I don't know if you guys feeling the same, but I feel very positive. When I see the line up and I see Kepa, my brain starts to imagine mistakes, panic, etc, etc... Probably the players feel the same.

Even if Kepa don't make mistake, to the players, just simple is not the same feeling that Mendy was playing. Just see how many clean sheets Chelsea make with him.

i'm feeling sad because its a trophy we don't won because of details

[Jype 6,398]

10 hours ago, Mário César said:

Choose Alonso was a mistake, but choose Kepa was even worst.

I know that I'm telling the same, but what I feel since Mendy play (since Tuchel arrived) is that the defence its more confidente, more calm. Panic simply doesn't exist. This feeling is sharing with supporters. When I see that Mendy is choose to play, i'm feel relaxed. I don't know how to explain and I don't know if you guys feeling the same, but I feel very positive. When I see the line up and I see Kepa, my brain starts to imagine mistakes, panic, etc, etc... Probably the players feel the same.

Even if Kepa don't make mistake, to the players, just simple is not the same feeling that Mendy was playing. Just see how many clean sheets Chelsea make with him.

i'm feeling sad because its a trophy we don't won because of details

Second choice keeper pretty much always plays the domestic cups at most top clubs though.  Kepa played every FA Cup game before last night and only conceded one goals against Luton during that run, think it would've been harsh to drop him for the final.

I feel the same nerves with Kepa in goal but as long as he's at the club he's nailed on to play the cups, if for nothing more then to keep some level of match fitness and perhaps attract some interest from other clubs who could be willing to take him on.

[Tomo 21,751]

14 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Not sure why many are surprised with team selection. 

Kepa played all games in Fa Cup, it was clear he would play today. Clearly not at fault for anything. 

What sums it up with Kepa is could you say it was an out and out howler that Tielemens goal? No, but on the same token if Kroos or Benzema scored at Stamford Bridge it wouldn't have been an Edou howler but he got there anywhere. It wouldn't have been a Schmeichel howler had Mount scored but he got there anyway.

Top keepers make that big difference in clutch moments.

[Jase 43,479]

11 minutes ago, Jype said:

Second choice keeper pretty much always plays the domestic cups at most top clubs though.  Kepa played every FA Cup game before last night and only conceded one goals against Luton during that run, think it would've been harsh to drop him for the final.

I feel the same nerves with Kepa in goal but as long as he's at the club he's nailed on to play the cups, if for nothing more then to keep some level of match fitness and perhaps attract some interest from other clubs who could be willing to take him on.

It might have been harsh but how much of the decision was due to him being Kepa and the price tag as well as maybe politics from the board?

I was just looking at our recent cup seasons and we have always switched to the #1 keeper once we get to the latter stages of the competition.

In 2018/19, Caballero started the first two rounds of the FA Cup and League Cup but Kepa then played the fifth round in the FA Cup (which we lost) and from the quarter-final onward until the final in the League Cup.

In 2017/18, Caballero started all the rounds in the FA Cup but when we got to the final, Courtois started it instead. In the League Cup, Caballero started the first three rounds but Courtois started in the semi-final first leg and would have likely done so in the second lag but missed it due to injury.

In 2016/17, Begovic started the first three rounds of the FA Cup but when we got to the quarter-final, it was Courtois who started. Same case in the semi-final and final.

In 2014/15, Cech started the first three rounds of the League Cup but then Courtois started both legs of the semi-final before Cech started in the final. Can't remember if Mourinho gave any reason for starting Cech over Courtois then but it was Cech. 

[Laylabelle 9,536]

Hopefully he can get it right for the next 3 games..otherwise the shine falling a little bit...to get to 2 finals and lose them both and top 4..thats not how expected it to go. Though guess didn't expect to get to any finals so small bonus but..

Unfortunately his last 2 games haven't paid off..

[chippy 342]

19 minutes ago, Jype said:

 

I feel the same nerves with Kepa in goal but as long as he's at the club he's nailed on to play the cups, if for nothing more then to keep some level of match fitness and perhaps attract some interest from other clubs who could be willing to take him on.

Yes, I think the club are desperate to sell him so they have no real choice other than to put him into the shop window every now and then. If not, then he just quietly rots away in the reserves.

But even if a club makes an offer, would he be prepared to take the big drop in wages that would undoubtably go with it?

The only chance I can see of getting him the wage bill, is to bite the bullet and give him a free transfer. Would be a huge hit, but better than keep on  paying a huge salary to a bang average reserve keeper.

 

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, chippy said:

Yes, I think the club are desperate to sell him so they have no real choice other than to put him into the shop window every now and then. If not, then he just quietly rots away in the reserves.

But even if a club makes an offer, would he be prepared to take the big drop in wages that would undoubtably go with it?

The only chance I can see of getting him the wage bill, is to bite the bullet and give him a free transfer. Would be a huge hit, but better than keep on  paying a huge salary to a bang average reserve keeper.

You must be living in another world if you think the club will just cancel Kepa's contract when he still has 4 years left on it. That's A LOT of money involved.

Think we can forget about selling him when he still has that length of contract remaining. A loan is more of a possibility. If Kepa still has any playing ambition, if he wants to get back into the Spain squad (the World Cup is happening next year), then he will look for a move this summer. If he does, then it comes to Marina really. Will she set a low demand in terms of loan fee? Will she agree to covering perhaps half of Kepa's wages (how much is he on anyway?) etc? 

[Tomo 21,751]

2 hours ago, Jas said:

It might have been harsh but how much of the decision was due to him being Kepa and the price tag as well as maybe politics from the board?

I was just looking at our recent cup seasons and we have always switched to the #1 keeper once we get to the latter stages of the competition.

In 2018/19, Caballero started the first two rounds of the FA Cup and League Cup but Kepa then played the fifth round in the FA Cup (which we lost) and from the quarter-final onward until the final in the League Cup.

In 2017/18, Caballero started all the rounds in the FA Cup but when we got to the final, Courtois started it instead. In the League Cup, Caballero started the first three rounds but Courtois started in the semi-final first leg and would have likely done so in the second lag but missed it due to injury.

In 2016/17, Begovic started the first three rounds of the FA Cup but when we got to the quarter-final, it was Courtois who started. Same case in the semi-final and final.

In 2014/15, Cech started the first three rounds of the League Cup but then Courtois started both legs of the semi-final before Cech started in the final. Can't remember if Mourinho gave any reason for starting Cech over Courtois then but it was Cech. 

I remember a few years back Pellegrini controversially played Caballero in the league cup final and when quizzed about it he said (paraphrasing) that he would rather lose than break his word.

Maybe Tuchel is of similar ilk?

[Jase 43,479]

18 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I remember a few years back Pellegrini controversially played Caballero in the league cup final and when quizzed about it he said (paraphrasing) that he would rather lose than break his word.

Maybe Tuchel is of similar ilk?

God damn it, Tomo!

At Dortmund, he had Burki as his #1 and Weidenfeller as his #2.

In 2015/16, Burki started all their DFB Pokal cup games while Weidenfeller started 10 of their 12 Europa League games. Didn't play the other 2 due to illness.

In 2016/17, Weidenfeller started the first two rounds of the DFB Pokal and Burki then started the remaining rounds all the way to the final.

At PSG, he had Buffon and Areola in his first season and then Navas and Rico in his second season (not bothered with the third since he left midway)...

In 2018/19, Areola started 7 of the 8 cup games across the two competitions and it's worth noting that Tuchel's usage of Buffon and Areola was wild because the former played 2,204 minutes and the latter played 2,805 minutes in all competitions. There was a lot of rotation between those two but judging by the minutes, guessing Areola was his #1? 

In 2019/20, Navas was Tuchel's #1 and Rico his #2. The latter started the first three rounds of the Coupe de France and first two rounds of the Coupe de la Ligue. After that, it was Navas who started the remaining games in each competition until the final.

So going by history, it seems like Tuchel at least knows the importance of playing the best keeper once the club reach the latter stages of the competition but he "chose" to stick with Kepa all the way here...

[Vesper 30,226]

57 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I remember a few years back Pellegrini controversially played Caballero in the league cup final and when quizzed about it he said (paraphrasing) that he would rather lose than break his word.

Maybe Tuchel is of similar ilk?

no, Tuchel broke his word by making too many changes to our line-up after promising he would not do it again after the Arsenal disaster

I posted on this already

[gdlk 286]

I think from new season we will play with new system, but for it TT need proper players... 

[NikkiCFC 8,337]

24 minutes ago, gdlk said:

I think from new season we will play with new system, but for it TT need proper players... 

Going to back 4 will raise other problems. We have 6 attacking players. CHO, Pulisic and Ziyech are wingers. Havertz is between number 9 and 10. Mount is midfielder and Werner is unique. 

I dont think playing with 4 at the back without wingers is option to even consider seriously. Who would attack from the flanks? What would happen to Werner? 

[gdlk 286]

Thats why TT is coach, to find a solution 

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

hace 19 horas, NikkiCFC dijo:

Not sure why many are surprised with team selection. 

Kepa played all games in Fa Cup, it was clear he would play today. Clearly not at fault for anything. 

Last 2 games Alonso scored winner against City and Chilwell very quiet against Arsenal. It was logical he would play because of this. 

And attackers? Pulisic and Havertz started against Arsenal and did not deliver. Plus who got us in final? Yes Werner and Ziyech with combo in semis against City.

So not sure what you lot expected? 

The team selection bar Alonso was fine for me. Kepa did nothing wrong in that game and v Arsenal. Dont know what people think playing Mendy wouls of done even if he somehow got his finger tips to that Tielemans shot its still going in for me because of how true he’s struck the ball, its straight through with his laces and its always rising. People complaining about Kepa’s dive on twitter and on here after the game really need to wake up 😂 even all the usual pundits who did nothing but slam him for the best part of a full season even said he wouldn't of saved it.

Just dancing around the obvious problem. We didnt fight or play well enough to win. I have seen VAR as an excuse, no Mendy as an excuse (probably best one yet - no GK was saving that) and a handball as an excuse. Ultimately we fell short second half particularly and the lack of acknowledged to that from some of the members on here just highlights the clear and obvious agendas towards certain players (Kepa, Jorginho, Alonso for the last 2-3 seasons, then it was Cahill, Matic and Ivanovic seasons beforehand and before that Mikel and Kalou) as well as the blatant it wasn’t our fault mentality which as we all know, simply doesn’t fly in top level sports unfortunately when you look at all the details. Theres always something you can point at that you never did/do well enough. Aye Leicester got lucky maybe but you earn your luck at times.

Ziyech was disappointing but no worse than Havertz v Arsenal. Or any of them tbf but for his first season aye expected much more. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[Laylabelle 9,536]

Pressure is on..3 games to turn this around. Let's see what he can do. Hopefully the players can also do!

[Milan 17,959]

1 minute ago, Laylabelle said:

Pressure is on..3 games to turn this around. Let's see what he can do. Hopefully the players can also do!

Well, to be really sure of the CL football for next season, we do not need to win all 3. Even winning just 2, no matter which, guarantee that. Well, even just 1 but that is too nervy lol

[Laylabelle 9,536]

Just now, Milan said:

Well, to be really sure of the CL football for next season, we do not need to win all 3. Even winning just 2, no matter which, guarantee that. Well, even just 1 but that is too nervy lol

Exactly. Let's do all 3 lol. Getting to another final and losing be shite. Esp as we lost one last season. Get 4th place then can look ahead. Not feeling like we've possibly thrown this season away..

[Tomo 21,751]

2 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Going to back 4 will raise other problems. We have 6 attacking players. CHO, Pulisic and Ziyech are wingers. Havertz is between number 9 and 10. Mount is midfielder and Werner is unique. 

I dont think playing with 4 at the back without wingers is option to even consider seriously. Who would attack from the flanks? What would happen to Werner? 

The DM/DLP drifts inbetween the CBs for first phase build-up then the fullbacks push on and offer the width.