closed Man Utd 4-0 Chelsea

[Hutcho 8,443]

has zero to do with Football Manager
FM allusions are a sure tell for a weak argument

No one can just say we should just buy xyz there's so many factors involved.

And it doesn't change the first part where there's about 90 clubs who'd love to have the people we have in charge

[Atomiswave 6,072]

34 minutes ago, Jason said:

I don't think you'll find a Chelsea fan who will disagree with you on that but not sure what the constant complaining is gonna achieve...

Thats fair my man, but it bugs me to no end we see the same mistakes and nothing is done eventhough the shit is looking right at you. When is the time to act? We are not run as a Club in footy matters, that much is obvious. But ok we have Lamps now with lots of younglings, a new start.....but will only get us so far if the board has crap vision and have almost no foresight. We are Chelsea.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

40 minutes ago, Hutcho said:

We've got like 16 trophies in the last 16 years. To say we are being run so poorly is somewhat laughable and makes it sound like we're all playing football manager.

Yeah we could do with strengthening particularly in defence and at striker but saying we're inept is a bit of a stretch.

And as already said. What we got is what we got. Let's get on with it. That's a discussion for next summer, I believe the squad we have can get top 4 and be competitive and be a great starting point for a lot of our young players. Expecting much more is setting yourself up for disappointment. Hoping for more is part of being a fan

You are settling....we couyld easily be much better. We need footy folks at the helm, that will be a decent start. Not lawyers and business folks. Sure we need them too but footy experienced folks for footy matters. And we are not saying get that and this player. Just be fast in the market, identify the right players and go for the kill. Have some form of insight, try not to let the team go stale, dont settle for average players that you pay so much for, have plan for the future and act fast. This is the worst squad we have for many many many years.

[Hutcho 8,443]

You are settling....we couyld easily be much better. We need footy folks at the helm, that will be a decent start. Not lawyers and business folks. Sure we need them too but footy experienced folks for footy matters. And we are not saying get that and this player. Just be fast in the market, identify the right players and go for the kill. Have some form of insight, try not to let the team go stale, dont settle for average players that you pay so much for, have plan for the future and act fast. This is the worst squad we have for many many many years.

Maybe the worst squad currently but one of the most promising going forwards for years.

Pulisic 20
Mount 20
RLC 23
CHO 18
Etc etc

Developing youth takes time. Sure this season may be rough at times but we could be better for it in the long term. I've waited years for someone to give some our players with great potential a chance and now we have so let's see what happens

[Superblue 6,331]

Had a chance to digest the game and there are surprisingly a lot of positives to take from a 4-0 defeat but some serious defensive flaws that need to be sorted out yesterday.

I was impressed with the overall application in our attacking play. We dominated much of the first hour at Old Trafford in the first game of the season, getting the crowd quiet and anxious very early on. I would have expected United to be the team to come out the blocks early at home and it is testament to Lampard's work in pre season and confidence in our players to be confident enough to do that in our first game. 

We're clearly talking fine margins in the first half, two times we hit the post, a couple of missed opportunities with the wrong final ball and of course the mistakes that gave United the penalty. Pedro giving the ball away in the middle of the pitch was really poor and then Zouma's rashness in the tackle. He had the situation under control because Rashford would have had to do something to get on the outside of him and still use his left foot and cutting inside was running straight back into Zouma and traffic tracking back. He just panicked and it was really poor. The poor pass he played a couple of minutes before in his own box shredded his confidence and he never recovered from that all game. However that half we could have easily been 2 or 3 goals up and being a goal down to United the writing was on the wall in the second half. It played into their strength's perfectly with the pace they have up the pitch and we got punished for that.

Probably the most disappointing part of the game was I feel the more experienced players didn't perform. Pedro will always work hard but he gave some really poor balls away in the middle of the pitch, Azpilicueta struggled at both ends and Zouma (who should be a far more experienced and polished defender currently than Christensen) buckled under the pressure. The younger players didn't set the world alight but they certainly didn't disgrace themselves. Mount has got bundles of energy and he's a very tidy player, particularly in tight spaces. His decision making in the final third needs to improve but that needs not just experience but also time adapting to playing with different players and their movements.

I also thought Tammy Abraham played pretty well too today and I'm not sure why so many are already writing him off. If his shot off the post screamed in those first 5 minutes I'm pretty sure he'd be a nailed on starter for the rest of the season in most peoples eyes. For me he pressed well and was lively and energetic. If Lampard wants to play in this way moving forward then I cannot see Giroud playing much because he just isn't mobile and quick enough to do that. There is a rawness and inconsistency to some of his play - in some passages of play he held the ball up well or linked up with others around him and in other passages he gave the ball away way too easily. Again it's something we're going to have to deal with by bringing young players in that they will suffer from consistency early on and it shouldn't be forgotten that it's rather the baptism of fire playing United away for them.

Having said all of that the mistakes need to stop being made. Even though the threat was there, up until the second goal United barely created anything and any sniffs of counter attacks were dealt with pretty well. But the second and third goals showed how easy you can get cut open against that threat. The defence needs to be sorted out and its one area of the pitch Lampard shouldn't be tinkering with too much unless there are injuries or suspensions, or cup games. The back four needs to be settled and gain experience working with each other. I could honestly see him settling on a back four of James, Christensen, Rudiger and Emerson once everyone is fit but it would require Rudiger stepping up to lead the back line. He definitely has the character to do this from what I've seen since he's been here but there is a difference becoming the 'senior' defender. Lamps after the game specifically said he expects Reece James to play a big part this season so it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility that Azpi starts being phased out or heavily rotated.

However, Lampard needs to get more out of the players he has now. Even with Rudiger and Kante coming back, they won't be match fit and it will take them time and some games to get to where they should be expected to be. Kante looked very rusty when he came on today so it's not a given that the two can just slot back in immediately and everything is all good again.

The other thing to note is the last 30 minutes we still toiled but ran out of gas. The quickfire second and third goals would help with that to deflate the team but there also needs to be a bit of experience that we cannot play in a relentless, frenetic tempo all game every game. Liverpool early days under Klopp used to be the same and were very inconsistent, it will take some time and patience but we need to learn early that at stages of the game we need to manage a bit better and just regain a bit of energy.

[Vesper 27,378]

Just now, Hutcho said:

And it doesn't change the first part where there's about 90 clubs who'd love to have the people we have in charge

shit clubs do NOT count

and there are almost none of the top 15, or 20 clubs who would have swapped the board of the last several years with theirs

that is just simply false to claim, the only one who may be close is Manure, even AC Milan has righted their ship

so many of the others do more with massively less assets than we potentially have

we have made multiple and disastrous (both in terms of shitting away hundreds of millions in revenue and in overall player signings and non signings) moves over the past 5 plus years

mismanaged contract situations, been forced into panic sales and buys after panic sales and buys, and also broken the laws of world football to a point where we got banned for 2 full transfer windows, as well as not backing 2 great managers right after they won titles (especially Conte)

it is literally wilful ignorance and/or a crystalline form of pure denial to say we are competently run overall in the past several years, say 2014 (de Bruyne sale with no buyback kicked it all off for this timeframe) and onward

The Conte hire was brilliant but then we undid that good work by not backing him

[!Hazard! 3,394]

Not reading too much into the result itself. This game could have ended 3-3 as well. Decent performance combined with poor finishing, dreadful defending at times together with some unlucky moments.

Kurt Zouma is not good enough to play at Chelsea. Said it before and said it again. He can look great playing for Everton, Southampton or Wolves but not for Chelsea. Jury is still out there for Abraham but I wasn't too convinced with what I've been seeing during preseason and tonight. The rest are definitely good enough and once we get Kante and Rudiger back into the team we'll definitely become a more solid team defensively. Very happy with Emerson's performance by the way, he surely looked like a proper leftback.

But where are the goals gonna come from? That's the real worry right now and has been ever since Diego Costa left the team.

[Jase 43,479]

 

[Jase 43,479]

 

[LAM09 6,557]

Abraham had a decent game. Not too disappointed. Giroud or Bats would not make so many balls stick that Abraham managed to today. 
Needs to sharpen and also manage to turn defenders and have a run but he is the best we've got this season to lead the line. Batshuayi has had multiple chances and has come off as a clumsy striker with zero awareness. Why not give Tammy a run? What better time than this season anyway. Giroud is clearly the sub because he offers nothing in pressing

Your dislike for Michy was made clear during preseason. To he's had "multiple chances" is farcical.

Probably his only run was after scoring at the Hawthorns to clitch the title. Players shouldn't warrant chances solely based on being youth products.

[Superblue 6,331]

30 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

Your dislike for Michy was made clear during preseason. To he's had "multiple chances" is farcical.

Probably his only run was after scoring at the Hawthorns to clitch the title. Players shouldn't warrant chances solely based on being youth products.

 

I think if today was an indicator for what Lampard wants then the one that'll struggle and I think be phased out through the season is actually Giroud. Abraham and Batshuayi are far more mobile and energetic to comply with the pressing that Lampard will require. 

I would have been unsure about Batshuayi in this role too previously but I saw enough in pre season to suggest that he would be willing to put the hard yards in pressing from the front. I think he'll get his opportunities sooner rather than later.

[LAM09 6,557]

I think if today was an indicator for what Lampard wants then the one that'll struggle and I think be phased out through the season is actually Giroud. Abraham and Batshuayi are far more mobile and energetic to comply with the pressing that Lampard will require. 
I would have been unsure about Batshuayi in this role too previously but I saw enough in pre season to suggest that he would be willing to put the hard yards in pressing from the front. I think he'll get his opportunities sooner rather than later.

Hope that's the case starting Wednesday.

[Superblue 6,331]

Separate point but anybody watching the Sky Sports coverage over here in the UK today will have experienced the punditry of Jose Mourinho.

I personally think it's a big negative for Sky Sports bringing him in. He's still clearly salty that at present nobody wants to touch him and whilst he has always been arrogant, that arrogance over time has evolved from cheeky to bitter, almost having to justify that he's still a good manager. I don't need to be switching on Sky Sports to watch any more self promotion having slept through Jamie Redknapp's shite punditry for what feels like decades.

I read an article earlier in the week where he suggested Lampard had no problems because we needed a striker and we had Tammy Abraham to bring in, and then criticises the decision to play him today. 

The dig at Luke Shaw at half time too was utterly pathetic and 'Uncle Rafa' was childish. It's embarrassing that the likes of Souness, Neville and Carragher don't have the balls to go against anything he says.

I'll always appreciate what he did at Chelsea but it doesn't stop him being an extremely unlikable prick.

[Magic Lamps 11,460]

1 minute ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Separate point but anybody watching the Sky Sports coverage over here in the UK today will have experienced the punditry of Jose Mourinho.

I personally think it's a big negative for Sky Sports bringing him in. He's still clearly salty that at present nobody wants to touch him and whilst he has always been arrogant, that arrogance over time has evolved from cheeky to bitter, almost having to justify that he's still a good manager. I don't need to be switching on Sky Sports to watch any more self promotion having slept through Jamie Redknapp's shite punditry for what feels like decades.

I read an article earlier in the week where he suggested Lampard had no problems because we needed a striker and we had Tammy Abraham to bring in, and then criticises the decision to play him today. 

The dig at Luke Shaw at half time too was utterly pathetic and 'Uncle Rafa' was childish. It's embarrassing that the likes of Souness, Neville and Carragher don't have the balls to go against anything he says.

I'll always appreciate what he did at Chelsea but it doesn't stop him being an extremely unlikable prick.

I noticed that too. He said how we didn't need to buy players when we had Tammy, Mount and Zouma to recall. But then he criticizes Lamps for actually playing them.

[Superblue 6,331]

6 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

I noticed that too. He said how we didn't need to buy players when we had Tammy, Mount and Zouma to recall. But then he criticizes Lamps for actually playing them.

It's easy to say the youth are good enough and then entirely a different level to have the faith in playing them.

This is the same Mourinho who said he'd be a failure if the current crop of Chelsea youngsters at the time didn't break through. Great comment at the start of his reign, quickly forgotten within a couple of months when he's soon moaning about squad deficiencies.

[Strike 6,976]

1 hour ago, LAM09 said:

 

 

Your dislike for Michy was made clear during preseason. To he's had "multiple chances" is farcical.

Probably his only run was after scoring at the Hawthorns to clitch the title. Players shouldn't warrant chances solely based on being youth products.

 

The reason he wasn't given a run was because of his obvious flaws I think. 

[LAM09 6,557]

The reason he wasn't given a run was because of his obvious flaws I think. 

Might be the case, but we don't exactly have an embarrassment of riches in multiple positions. We have to make the most of the entire squad this season.

[cosmicway 1,261]

Now that the dust has settled what happened was this:
We were the better side up to the point they scored their second goal - United were living on scrapes.
But the Zouma flop in the first half had already made things diffcult for us.
Then they make it 2-0.
That was it - game over and it can happen any time, any place if you are unlucky.

The thing to do under such circumstances is don't give up -like we did.
You must n't drop the white towel.
Ok, let it stay 2-0, the final result.

But we behaved like amateur side, abandoned positions, everyone panicked.
We awarded a 4-0 victory to Man. United, a team that will barely make it to the Europa cup of the next year.