Super Frank Thread

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Supermonkey92 said:

In cant remember the United match. The city matches are good counterexamples but that's because they were CLEARLY better.

Yaya, silva, Aguero all in their prime.

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Still doesn't necessarily Mourinho's over cautious approach in those kind of games. 

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I'd rather Lampard get the defensive base and organisation sorted out now early in the season then it remaining a huge issue for us all season.

People need some patience with this. Lampard is finally starting to show some tactical discipline and shape to our game that fans have been crying out for the last year. It's obviously affected our attack over the past two games and we need to find the right balance but I firmly believe this base is better to build from than the base we were showing in the earlier weeks (i.e. full of goals but looking like conceding just as many). 

Nobody is pulling away at present in the league, and if we can get these points to our game right it'll stand us in good stead throughout the season.

We are much more likely to be able to grind some results out through the season 1-0 than we are winning 4-3 in a game of pinball. And the way this season is progressing that could seriously put us in a position to be able to mount a title challenge this year.

TBH, I would wait and see the next few games and results before we start proclaiming about any sort of progression under Lampard based on the last 2 games. Our main problem has been having the right balance between defence and attack without sacrificing one or the other. All fine playing defensively against Sevilla and Man United but it also meant we posed next to no threat whatsoever against them (0.4 and 0.21 xG against Sevilla and Man United respectively). The upcoming games against Krasnodar, Burnley, Rennes, Sheffield United, Newcastle and Rennes again will tell us more because I don't think any of us are going to accept similar defensive setup/approach in those games.

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

Still doesn't necessarily Mourinho's over cautious approach in those kind of games. 

Why not? The chance of winning was small and his overly defensive approach would keep city at the same points difference.

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[Superblue 6,370]

11 minutes ago, Jason said:

TBH, I would wait and see the next few games and results before we start proclaiming about any sort of progression under Lampard based on the last 2 games. Our main problem has been having the right balance between defence and attack without sacrificing one or the other. All fine playing defensively against Sevilla and Man United but it also meant we posed next to no threat whatsoever against them (0.4 and 0.21 xG against Sevilla and Man United respectively). The upcoming games against Krasnodar, Burnley, Rennes, Sheffield United, Newcastle and Rennes again will tell us more because I don't think any of us are going to accept similar defensive setup/approach in those games.

It's a process that could take some time, but as I said in the first post I would rather we see some serious consideration and effort put into making ourselves far harder to beat now, even if it is to the detriment of our attacking play for a few games. I'll take winning those games in front of us 1-0 right now. The attacking movement and confidence will develop in time but it can only flourish to it's maximum with a solid base behind it which until the last two games was non-existent.

That solid foundation will be the key to whether we put up a greater challenge this season than last. The Kevin Keegan approach of we'll score more goals than you, is great for a few games but there's no long term viability about it. 

We have to get back to being far harder to beat because you can't play great and score 3 goals every game. Our problem for too long has been if we don't do that we usually don't win (and even then it's still not guaranteed).

Also to note that there's been no pre season. I know that is the same for everyone, but in our situation with the number of new signings (and even then they've become available at different intervals) I do thing that has to also be taken into context when analysing this. 

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

It's a process that could take some time, but as I said in the first post I would rather we see some serious consideration and effort put into making ourselves far harder to beat now, even if it is to the detriment of our attacking play for a few games. I'll take winning those games in front of us 1-0 right now. The attacking movement and confidence will develop in time but it can only flourish to it's maximum with a solid base behind it which until the last two games was non-existent.

That solid foundation will be the key to whether we put up a greater challenge this season than last. The Kevin Keegan approach of we'll score more goals than you, is great for a few games but there's no long term viability about it. 

We have to get back to being far harder to beat because you can't play great and score 3 goals every game. Our problem for too long has been if we don't do that we usually don't win (and even then it's still not guaranteed).

Also to note that there's been no pre season. I know that is the same for everyone, but in our situation with the number of new signings (and even then they've become available at different intervals) I do thing that has to also be taken into context when analysing this. 

Yes, the process will take time but at the same time, it's only 3 wins from 9 games in all competitions this season and 1 in the last 6 and while we have suffered only 1 defeat in that run (or 2 if you include the penalty shootout loss at Spurs), results are needed to buy us that time, to buy Lampard time to do what he wants. But we aren't seeing that at the moment because for one reason or another. As Ziyech said, "it will take time but we also don't have time".

Again, I get that implementing a cohesive attacking unit will take time but have we seen any semblance of that this season? In fact, have we seen any of that throughout Lampard's tenure? Last 2 games were better in terms of team structure but on a whole, we don't have really have a team structure, we don't really have any patterns of play or attacking patterns under Lampard. So many things have been chopped and changed - some times unnecessarily - by Lampard throughout his time here and it's hard to pin-point exactly what he wants to do.

[Superblue 6,370]

13 minutes ago, Jason said:

Yes, the process will take time but at the same time, it's only 3 wins from 9 games in all competitions this season and 1 in the last 6 and while we have suffered only 1 defeat in that run (or 2 if you include the penalty shootout loss at Spurs), results are needed to buy us that time, to buy Lampard time to do what he wants. But we aren't seeing that at the moment because for one reason or another. As Ziyech said, "it will take time but we also don't have time".

Again, I get that implementing a cohesive attacking unit will take time but have we seen any semblance of that this season? In fact, have we seen any of that throughout Lampard's tenure? Last 2 games were better in terms of team structure but on a whole, we don't have really have a team structure, we don't really have any patterns of play or attacking patterns under Lampard. So many things have been chopped and changed - some times unnecessarily - by Lampard throughout his time here and it's hard to pin-point exactly what he wants to do.

Yeah can't argue with that. It is something that does need to show some progression. He has his own players in now. 3 outstanding attacking players and a high quality left back to join some of the players that were here last season (Pulisic in particular). I would expect Lampard has some ideas of how he wants these players to play otherwise he wouldn't have identified them. 

Having said that, take the United and Liverpool games out and we've scored 13 goals in our other 4 league games this season so I don't envisage scoring goals to be a problem throughout the season. Our achilles heel during Lampard's tenure is the defence and the last two games have been a positive step in the right direction to addressing those issues in my opinion. 

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Yeah can't argue with that. It is something that does need to show some progression. He has his own players in now. 3 outstanding attacking players and a high quality left back to join some of the players that were here last season (Pulisic in particular). I would expect Lampard has some ideas of how he wants these players to play otherwise he wouldn't have identified them. 

One would hope so but I have my doubts based on how things have gone so far.

1 minute ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Having said that, take the United and Liverpool games out and we've scored 13 goals in our other 4 league games this season so I don't envisage scoring goals to be a problem throughout the season. Our achilles heel during Lampard's tenure is the defence and the last two games have been a positive step in the right direction to addressing those issues in my opinion. 

The last 2 games have been a step in the direction in terms of defensive improvement but that came at the cost of sacrificing our attacking play almost completely - and that despite boasting Havertz, Werner, Pulisic, Ziyech etc. Jury still out, IMO.

[Superblue 6,370]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

The last 2 games have been a step in the direction in terms of defensive improvement but that came at the cost of sacrificing our attacking play almost completely - and that despite boasting Havertz, Werner, Pulisic, Ziyech etc. Jury still out, IMO.

Southampton game is a prime example of the balance we need to find. The first 40 minutes we looked good as an attacking unit and dominating the ball without them being able to lay a glove on us. But once we get that goal or two, the team has to have the maturity to manage the game properly and ensure it is disciplined and compact defensively to not give up chances. The rest of that game we played right into their hands as our only answer to them applying a bit of pressure was to try and open up and attack them more. 

Other chances will come because teams have to come at us and with the likes of Pulisic and Werner we could be a devastating counter attack unit when we take the lead in games. That Southampton game realistically should have been a 3-0 or 4-0 game. 

Sorting this side of our game out and becoming hard to score against will win us games long term, I'm certain of it.

[Vesper 28,787]

we really should win the next 6 games

if not (or at least 5)

we really need to take a re-think on a lot of things

on of these teams are remotely as good in terms of players as us

think back 5 years ago (let alone 10, or 15)

would ANY of these teams be of concern?

 

after those 6 games

most of the next 11 are far harder (other than Krasnodar, as West Ham is a bogey  team for us, they did the fucking double on us last year)

[Laylabelle 9,351]

Urghhh December looks horrible!

Need to get a win Wednesday..otherwise we're gana make hard work of that group then it needs to be..

[NikkiCFC 7,942]

2 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Lampard is finally starting to show some tactical discipline and shape to our game that fans have been crying out for the last year. It's obviously affected our attack over the past two games and we need to find the right balance 

 

2 hours ago, Jason said:

 Our main problem has been having the right balance between defence and attack without sacrificing one or the other.

Are not Mendy, Silva and Chilwell starting enough to fix our defense without changing our approach to games? I think we look better in defense because they played not because Frank needed to change something.

We kept clean sheet with them against Palace unlike WBA and Southampton because they played and we had the same approach in those games.

[Jase 43,479]

6 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Are not Mendy, Silva and Chilwell starting enough to fix our defense without changing our approach to games? I think we look better in defense because they played not because Frank needed to change something.

We kept clean sheet with them against Palace unlike WBA and Southampton because they played and we had the same approach in those games.

Are you really gonna say our approach against Sevilla and Man United were not very defensive, more defensive than usual? We restricted them but we also barely created any chance of note compared to previous games.

That Palace game is not a great example simply because they are always very pragmatic and defensive under Hodgson. We also kept them up with ease in the same fixture last season and that was without Mendy, Silva and Chilwell. 

[NikkiCFC 7,942]

4 minutes ago, Jason said:

Are you really gonna say our approach against Sevilla and Man United were not very defensive, more defensive than usual? We restricted them but we also barely created any chance of note compared to previous games.

That Palace game is not a great example simply because they are always very pragmatic and defensive under Hodgson. We also kept them up with ease in the same fixture last season and that was without Mendy, Silva and Chilwell. 

I am aware we did play more defensively I just said that them playing should be enough for our defense to be fixed so I am questioning was that approach needed? 

Mendy over Kepa, Silva over Chris and Chilwell over Alonso I think our defense is so much better even if we play most attacking football possible I would still expect us to keep a clean sheet.

 

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, NikkiCFC said:

I am aware we did play more defensively I just said that them playing should be enough for our defense to be fixed so I am questioning was that approach needed? 

Mendy over Kepa, Silva over Chris and Chilwell over Alonso I think our defense is so much better even if we play most attacking football possible I would still expect us to keep a clean sheet.

They will help improve us but there are still question marks over the team structure, especially when the midfield is still a problem.

And the absence of Mendy and Silva, for example, weren't the reason why we got dominated or couldn't deal with Southampton's press last weekend.

[Fulham Broadway 16,838]

29 minutes ago, Mana said:

No offense but that's absolute nonsense. Absolute nonsense. I don't know what you've seen all game outside us defending that is classed as a "very good" performance. Yikes.

None taken. We all have our views, and after 50 years a fan thought it was very good. I have to be positive to counter all the negativity from people here.....no offence

[whats happening 1,525]

2 hours ago, Vesper said:

we really should win the next 6 games

if not (or at least 5)

we really need to take a re-think on a lot of things

on of these teams are remotely as good in terms of players as us

think back 5 years ago (let alone 10, or 15)

would ANY of these teams be of concern?

i can already see us not winning in newcastle.

[Superblue 6,370]

2 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

Are not Mendy, Silva and Chilwell starting enough to fix our defense without changing our approach to games? I think we look better in defense because they played not because Frank needed to change something.

We kept clean sheet with them against Palace unlike WBA and Southampton because they played and we had the same approach in those games.

The Palace game isn't a good indicator because they offered no attempt to attack us.

The three do make a huge difference to the team but it shouldn't be forgotten that Silva played when West Brom scored 3 against us, and Chilwell played when Southampton scored 3 against us.

If the tactics still left us exposed defensively, I think we'd still suffer some problems. But some work on the defensive shape combined by the additions should help progress the defensive aspects of our game. 

We just need to marry that to scoring goals again!

[Tomo 21,733]

I'll give Lampard the benefit of the doubt that this was a short term measure to get some confidence boosting clean sheets but holy hell, our attacking play yesterday and vs Sevilla was absolutely woeful, it's not in anyway sustainable so i really hope this isn't his natural approach now. I was defending a lot of our draws/loses last season because the underlying performance metrics pointed to sustainable progression, if we keep having XG rates of 0.4 and 0.2 we won't be scoring many goals and will turn into a genuine mid table side like Arsenal have done.