Super Frank Thread

[Vesper 28,787]

Lampard is bigger Chelsea problem than Kepa

Kepa is just a convenient dummy target. So many individual mistakes points to a systemic fault.

https://www.football365.com/news/opinion-lampard-bigger-chelsea-problem-kepa-system-southampton

 

‘Acres of space’ would not have done justice to the distance between the Chelsea players in the box and Theo Walcott lurking on the edge.

With about as much defence as the air provides between a sword and a bare neck on a slab, the forward sliced down the deathblow in the final minutes of the game at Stamford Bridge on Saturday.

It’s become a running theme. The West Brom match was similar only in scoreline; in this case, against a club who finished 11th last campaign, Chelsea were quite lucky not to lose. While the first half showed the disparity of talent in the players on the pitch, the second highlighted the same but with those on the touchline.

This was another indication of how modern success in football rarely stems from signing big names for mammoth fees; it’s about identity and tactical implementation.

It’s why, despite last season’s 9-0 mauling against Leicester (an overused example at this point, but still), Southampton have rightly been pegged as the dark horses of the league: there is a togetherness and unity which is fastened down by tactical impetus. And it’s slowly breeding success.

“It’s about pressing, hunting, being hungry,” Ralph Hasenhuttl once said. “When you have the ball, find a quick decision, a quick transition to the front. It’s about being emotional, being full of passion. Also, keep the tempo on a high level and don’t slow down the game.”

His footballing blueprint has kept Southampton on a slow upward trajectory. Even in the midst of turbulent form, there is clear reason to hold on; a common goal that is being made all the more visible and close with each passing week; a noticeable steady and sturdy elevation.

Could as much be said of Frank Lampard’s Chelsea, where individuality and only small pockets of brilliance seem to be the solitary positive attributes on show?

All we can ascertain from the 62 games Lampard has presided over at Chelsea is that he prefers to press with his front line – given his attacking options and their gusto, big surprise – and that his defence is about as leaky as a sideways milk bottle in the fridge.

Under Lampard, Chelsea have conceded an average of 1.5 goals per game in the Premier League. It’s the worst rate of any permanent Blues manager. Despite finishing fourth last season, Chelsea conceded the 11th most goals in the league. No team had ever conceded 54 goals and reached the top four in Premier League history before.

The bizarre nature of having a transfer window to address such an issue but leaving it alone and opting to bolster the attack instead speaks of a manager who is either vastly confident he can get the best out of his current players at the back or so unsure of himself he feels only that getting a myriad of goal machines will stand him any chance of success.

If it’s the former, Lampard would have been right in some way. Their defenders are no slouches, despite the narrative laid down recently.

Along with Kepa Arrizabalaga, Chelsea started with a valuable defence against Southampton – and while Andreas Christensen could be improved upon (starting Fikayo Tomori would have surely amended that), there is little to complain about in terms of having adequate players to select; and that’s even if we dismiss the glaring factor that Chelsea’s defence has some of the league’s best holding midfielders protecting them.

Reece James is looking to tip Trent Alexander-Arnold out of an England place, Kurt Zouma, though hardly exceptional, has his moments, and Ben Chilwell’s recent performances indicate Marcos Alonso will remain out of action.

There is a theory that Chelsea’s mishaps are borne out of individual error. But given that 80% of their goals so far this season have been conceded in open play, it puts paid the idea that faults occur merely when the players nod off during vital set-pieces; it actually comes during the flow of a game.

“We have to not give those goals away,” Lampard expertly noted. “We are making individual mistakes in games and it gives other teams chances at all times. It is something we need to get better at.”

Chelsea have bought Edouard Mendy to account for the shocking displays of Arrizabalaga, whose games have somehow been increasingly woeful and ever more painful to witness. Just when you think it couldn’t get any worse, he’s there again lowering the bar with something almost beautiful in its absurdity.

As a BEIN co-commentator quite insightfully commented as he fumbled the ball out: “He’s slightly lacking in confidence at the moment.”

Following his mistake for Southampton’s second, the camera panned to Arrizabalaga’s face. His look was something beyond the semi-humorous blooper videos that came out in the late ’90s – it was far darker, a face bearing complete anguish and pain. It was a look that makes you want to start some sort of online relief fund to have him carted away from London and back to Spain, for his sake as well as ours.

And yet his decline has reached such a nadir that it goes beyond Chelsea merely having overvalued his ability while he was at La Liga. Premier League scouts don’t pinpoint the next Garrincha and end up with someone who’d give the fourth-worst player in North Caledonian Football a run for their money. The difference is never that great.

The season before Lampard joined, the Spaniard earned 23 clean sheets for Chelsea. Under Lampard last season it was just ten. The world’s most expensive goalkeeper at £71m, in the space of two seasons, is now worth a fraction of that.

Such a horrendous drop points to more than just bad form, but the sad reality is that he is now a scapegoat for Lampard’s inability, an easy dummy target between the sticks.

Indeed, the team is full of mistakes, as Lampard says. But this line almost detracts and even defends those in charge whose worth is supposed to be measured on how well they amend such calamities.

These errors, or moments of madness, in isolated occurrences are just that. Yet when they’re so regular, when they become so typical of a team, it means there is a complete lack of direction, an utter systemic failure stemming from the manager.

But like many clubs of today, Chelsea were seduced by sentiment and nostalgia. Having gone through so many managers in recent years you cannot blame them.

There is a strange idealisation around sentimentality in football’s current climate – but it’s also a time when the most successful teams have realised progression and success is founded in tactical edges and finely-tuned systems. We are seeing it more often in the current game as we’re starting to grasp that big buys seldom change cultural failings.

Tactical impetus rarely fails. It’s the immovable object in football’s rapidly moving landscape, now perhaps more than ever. Of course, there is room for emotion and heart, for sentimentalism and club legends, for kissing the badge and living out fairy-tales. But really, at its foundation, it’s the system which holds the key to joy and Chelsea desperately need a manager who possesses his own.

 

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, Magic Lamps said:

Pretty sure that play indeed was rehearsed albeit the finish was improvised. It is a signature move from Werner but the player passing to him needs to be instructed where and how hard to pass so the dummy makes the Ball run into space

Are you not giving it a little too much credit for it being a rehearsed play? Looking at the goal again, Chilwell just played a simple pass to Werner (as any competent footballer would in that situation), who could have easily just gathered it with his feet but from there, it was all down to individual brilliance. He had the presence of mind to know the defender was sticking closely behind and he took full advantage of the situation by turning him inside out and going through on goal to score. 

If anything, the second goal was arguably more rehearsed with the ball over the top, although Werner's finish then was still down to individual brilliance. 

[Tomo 21,733]

4 hours ago, Mana said:

Back to this.

If we can't upgrade CBs, then upgrade LBs and GKs. No, not just getting ONE for each position. Our backups for GK and LBs are total shite. Very shite. I don't want to see Kepa and Alonso again. EVER. But we will this season.

Should have kept Lamptey at RB because he has been more impressive since joining in for Brighton than RJ.

And if you think that's not the case, then why TF is RJ not being used much by Lampard?

Our defence has been a complete shambles, always has been...since DAY ONE of Lampard's appointment.

Saying Lamptey's been more impressive than James is subjective at best, firstly he's been playing wingback, as we know from Alonso that's a huge difference to fullback yet still he's made basic defensive mistakes that he would have been crucified for had he done with us (getting caught up field when Rashford walsed through BHA's defense on his side, sleeping at a short corner for an Everton goal and the stupid penalty he gave away yesterday). I don't hold those against him as it's par for the course being a young defender but let's be honest a significant number of our fanbase would have.

That said I don't disagree I wished we kept him but he's not been immune from the rawness any of our other youngsters have been.

Now don't mistake what I'm saying for being happy with most of our options at the back, I'm not, what I'm saying is if push came to shove a generational talent like Havertz is worth waiting on major upgrades for especially as (a) there's no serious stand out defensive options and (b) Thiago Silva is a dream quick fix. Remember back in 2012 when we had serious CM problems and on paper needed to sort that out before signing a winger/10 as we already had Mata with KDB still to come? I think we can all agree signing Hazard trumped signing say signing Witsel or Joe Allen and "fixing the pivot", we waited until top quality options came along and eventually we had Matic and Cesc.

[The Skipper 20,593]

4 hours ago, Mana said:

Should have kept Lamptey at RB because he has been more impressive since joining in for Brighton than RJ.

From what I know Lamptey actually refused a contract and had six months left on his contract so the club's hands were actually tied. 

He has also played at RWB for Brighton. Reece James has always been the better talent and we literally have no issues at RB (we have Azpi and James there), I wouldn't bring this as a criticism at the club. Tariq is good but RJ is easily the better talent. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

Speaking of James, has Frank ever considered developing him into a DM ala Kimmich?

[Fernando 6,455]

I hope we don't lose the opportunity in trying to get nagelsmann. He is the one that we need to get for next season. 

As I doubt he will leave now, so Lampard will finish the season and next season get nagelsmann. 

[killer1257 3,282]

I hope we don't lose the opportunity in trying to get nagelsmann. He is the one that we need to get for next season. 
As I doubt he will leave now, so Lampard will finish the season and next season get nagelsmann. 

Nagelsmann will cost couple of millions fee though and no chance we will get him during this season. Next season maybe, but like i said, he will not go for free.

And Nagelsmann is still very much high risk. People forget how good RB Leipzigs scouting team is and it is not like that Nagelsmann performened miracles with bad players. They get a lot of good, young players from outside Germany. We already went with AVB and it did not work

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[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, killer1257 said:

Nagelsmann will cost couple of millions fee though and no chance we will get him during this season. Next season maybe, but like i said, he will not go for free.

And Nagelsmann is still very much high risk. People forget how good RB Leipzigs scouting team is and it is not like that Nagelsmann performened miracles with bad players. They get a lot of good, young players from outside Germany. We already went with AVB and it did not work

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TBF, Nagelsmann also did well at Hoffenheim and got them into the Champions League.

[Jase 43,479]

Plenty of questions on the defensive problems thrown at Lampard in today's presser...

[Fernando 6,455]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

Plenty of questions on the defensive problems thrown at Lampard in today's presser...

Good, as it should be. 

[Alabama 1,992]

7 minutes ago, Fernando said:

I hope we don't lose the opportunity in trying to get nagelsmann. He is the one that we need to get for next season. 

As I doubt he will leave now, so Lampard will finish the season and next season get nagelsmann. 

It's easy to pinpoint and find the next shining toy to scapegoat...Nagelsman also has his flaws am not saying I wouldn't like or want him here but just like killer opined above....No clear cut candidates out there without their obvious weakness...In addition  Nagelsman with clowns like Kepa Zouma Christesen Rudiger and co is a recipe for disaster....

[Jase 43,479]

8 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Nagelsmann will cost couple of millions fee though and no chance we will get him during this season. Next season maybe, but like i said, he will not go for free.

And Nagelsmann is still very much high risk. People forget how good RB Leipzigs scouting team is and it is not like that Nagelsmann performened miracles with bad players. They get a lot of good, young players from outside Germany. We already went with AVB and it did not work

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6 minutes ago, Jason said:

TBF, Nagelsmann also did well at Hoffenheim and got them into the Champions League.

And another point here is that Nagelsmann is accumulating years as a manager before taking the next step to a bigger club. So, he's basically working his way up if you like. 

AVB only had 2 years of experience as a manager before taking over here while Lampard had only 1. 

[Jase 43,479]

Lampard doesn't look in good mood in the presser and is getting thrown A LOT of questions about the defensive issues.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

5 minutes ago, Alabama said:

is a recipe for disaster

Already is a disaster

[Vesper 28,787]

On 17/10/2020 at 7:56 PM, Tomo said:

The two best CB's realistically available last summer were probably Ruben Dias and Nathan Ake and they've hardly tightened City up, have they?

they were not remotely the 2 best available, especially Ake, who is so so overrated

we failed to sell most all of our huge dregs (mainly do to COVID-19 tbf), but IF we had liquidated a tonne

then ALL (not joking) of these could have been bought (not the whole lot all at once obviously, I mean each on an individual cases basis) of the following were within our grasp, IF we had so chosen to buy

we especially could have worked swaps + cash deals

money talks, especially in this window, look at what we did

there are others I could list too, but they would have cost too much (and the first one, Gimenez, is maybe the case as well)

José Giménez   
Kalidou Koulibaly    <<< too old for the money, BUt he was so available, and he is vastly better than Dias or Ake, I am pretty shocked that Manure did not buy him
David Alaba    << deffo was available, it was his wage demands that were insane
Stefan de Vrij   << thsi was his last year, in 2021 he is too old for the cash they will want (he turns 30yo in 15 months)
Milan Skriniar      
Alessio Romagnoli    <<< I may stop listing him, as AC Milan looks headed towards being a top 10 global team, and he has zero reason to leave, we should have bought him 5 years ago, fucking board
Ozan Kabak    
Marash Kumbulla   <<< he was sold
Felipe  (could have been part of a 2-fer with Kante going to AM, and Partey+Felipe coming here) 
Evan N'Dicka    
Edmond Tapsoba
 

next summer we need to buy two of the following

Dayot Upamecano <<<< MUST Buy

+ José Giménez

or if not Giménez (manly due to his cost),

Matthias Ginter or Evan N'Dicka (left footed) or Edmond Tapsoba

[killer1257 3,282]

TBF, Nagelsmann also did well at Hoffenheim and got them into the Champions League.

After that season, they placed ninth place. Favre also got Gladbach into the CL, but nobody here wants Favre and Gladbach at that time were horrible before Favre. They nearly got relegated, Favre came and brought them into CL one season after that.
Also, Hoffenheim have also great scouts like with Firminho and they have a big president with Hopp.

Nagelsmann might work here, because we do not have big names at Chelsea. AVB had to worry about Terry, Lampard and, Drogba, who were AVBs age and those guys did not respect young coaches, who were no names in their professional career. Ramos for instance did not rate Mourinho because Mou was a former low level player. Big players do not respect that, but we do not have big players no more, so Nagelsmann might work here

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[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, killer1257 said:

After that season, they placed ninth place. 

Yes but I don't think anyone fancied Hoffenheim to qualify for the Champions League and what happened after that was due to inexperience and not having the squad depth to cope. Nagelsmann certainly admitted the former about their Champions League campaign back then, saying he was wrong to set up Hoffenheim in the Champions League like they did in the Bundesliga because teams are more likely to punish mistakes, there needs to be more rigidity etc

6 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Favre also got Gladbach into the CL, but nobody here wants Favre and Gladbach at that time were horrible before Favre. They nearly got relegated, Favre came and brought them into CL one season after that.

After getting Gladbach into the Champions League, Favre left the club after losing the first five games...

And let's not pretend Favre is all that great either. His football is boring and his time at a big club like Dortmund has hardly been convincing overall. You're not daft to know it's more than just the results when talking about Nagelsmann. 

9 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Also, Hoffenheim have also great scouts like with Firminho and they have a big president with Hopp.

Having great scouting system is one thing but it still needs the manager to improve and get the best out of the players he has. Can't say Nagelsmann hasn't done that. 

[Tomo 21,733]

11 minutes ago, Vesper said:

they were not remotely the 2 best available, especially Ake, who is so so overrated

we failed to sell most all of our huge dregs (mainly do to COVID-19 tbf), but IF we had liquidated a tonne

then ALL (not joking) of these could have been bought (not the whole lot all at once obviously, I mean each on an individual cases basis) of the following were within our grasp, IF we had so chosen to buy

we especially could have worked swaps + cash deals

money talks, especially in this window, look at what we did

there are others I could list too, but they would have cost too much (and the first one, Gimenez, is maybe the case as well)

José Giménez   
Kalidou Koulibaly    <<< too old for the money, BUt he was so available, and he is vastly better than Dias or Ake, I am pretty shocked that Manure did not buy him
David Alaba    << deffo was available, it was his wage demands that were insane
Stefan de Vrij   << thsi was his last year, in 2021 he is too old for the cash they will want (he turns 30yo in 15 months)
Milan Skriniar      
Alessio Romagnoli    <<< I may stop listing him, as AC Milan looks headed towards being a top 10 global team, and he has zero reason to leave, we should have bought him 5 years ago, fucking board
Ozan Kabak    
Marash Kumbulla   <<< he was sold
Felipe  (could have been part of a 2-fer with Kante going to AM, and Partey+Felipe coming here) 
Evan N'Dicka    
Edmond Tapsoba
 

next summer we need to buy two of the following

Dayot Upamecano <<<< MUST Buy

+ José Giménez

or if not Giménez (manly due to his cost),

Matthias Ginter or Evan N'Dicka (left footed) or Edmond Tapsoba

I'm not sure Giminez falls into realistic when you consider the price risk given his injury's and even if he was, was he worth abandoning the chance for Kai? I don't have bonafide evidence but given the money already spent i imagine it was Kai or a CB at that point. Alaba was off the table due to the fact his wage demands would have blown our structure and he appears to want La Liga. Koulibaly would have also been a huge gamble given price, age and wage. De Vrij I've never been to keen on. Upemacano and Tapsoba look really good but at the same time, so did AC at a similar age in that league  (so much so the rumours of us approaching Southampton for a VVD- AC swap left most of this board outraged at the mere suggestion) and we already seem to be committing to one inexperienc in the back line (James), very few teams challenge without atleast 3 experienced opitions in back 4. Skriniar fair enough. I haven't seen enough of the rest so i'll take your word for it.