Super Frank Thread

[robsblubot 3,504]

On 9/1/2019 at 7:39 AM, petre.ispirescu said:

He's bound to mistakes just like the youngsters playing at the moment. Who cares really?! It's a season of transition at the end of which everybody will have learned more and be more experienced going into the next one, including Frank Lampard. His chat with Kovacic during the match yesterday showed me the atmosphere at the club is better than ever and that's the most important thing after some toxic seasons. 

There are two established clubs at the moment that happen to be some of the best in Europe, as well (City and Liverpool) and two others that have good squads to easily finish top four (Spurs and Arsenal). Do you think Chelsea can finish ahead of one of Spurs or Arsenal? With this squad and so many youngsters playing? I don't, so the bottom line is people should chill a bit and enjoy this season, top four is out of reach. 

It is the perfect season to lay the foundations for the future - Hudson-Odoi, Loftus-Cheek, Reece James, Mason Mount, Tammy Abraham, Tomori (hopefully others to come, too) - Chelsea through and through, guys that have this club in their blood, football is going nuts with all the crazy transfer amounts and greedy agents and money grabbing cunts like Neymar. 

This season will most probably end bad in terms of trophies and standings, but I am sure it'll benefit a lot in the long run should youngsters continue to play. 

That’d be a perfectly acceptable outcome, but some of us are worried about a very different one.

I’ve been through a few of these so called transitions, it usually means someone fucked up. That is because the best clubs have no rebuilding, just a constant organic and Gradual replacement of the players who are past with new talented ones. whether they come from the academy or elsewhere matters little, perhaps only for NT supporters.

thats by far the best way to develop youth imo. Barca is probably the best club at this transition.

You can’t build a winning mentality by losing and struggling. No one will be happy if we are losing games over and over again. Young players will start questioning their abilities (and managers) and lose confidence, far more than established players. Winning is very important esp for younger players. That’s why the best way to do this is slowly and with established role models who they can learn from.

Speaking of greed, Cho is yet to sign a contract and he is the closest thing, potential wise, to a Neymar (a few years away and still unlikely to me). I understand folks want the nice guy, the cool kid, but football is about winning and for that you need a good order of both grit and talent. The latter is especially difficult to find or produce, which is why it is so expensive.

a more realistic outcome is that half of these youngsters will not cut it. Once the window reopens for us they have to be at least as good as the ones we can afford for their positions. Otherwise they will either go (sold/loan) or be used as squad players, which is fine of course.

I guess nothing more to do other than watch and support the team now. And hope the outcome is more like what you described.

[Tomo 21,733]

1 hour ago, Robchels said:

That’d be a perfectly acceptable outcome, but some of us are worried about a very different one.

I’ve been through a few of these so called transitions, it usually means someone fucked up. That is because the best clubs have no rebuilding, just a constant organic and Gradual replacement of the players who are past with new talented ones. whether they come from the academy or elsewhere matters little, perhaps only for NT supporters.

thats by far the best way to develop youth imo. Barca is probably the best club at this transition.

You can’t build a winning mentality by losing and struggling. No one will be happy if we are losing games over and over again. Young players will start questioning their abilities (and managers) and lose confidence, far more than established players. Winning is very important esp for younger players. That’s why the best way to do this is slowly and with established role models who they can learn from.

Speaking of greed, Cho is yet to sign a contract and he is the closest thing, potential wise, to a Neymar (a few years away and still unlikely to me). I understand folks want the nice guy, the cool kid, but football is about winning and for that you need a good order of both grit and talent. The latter is especially difficult to find or produce, which is why it is so expensive.

a more realistic outcome is that half of these youngsters will not cut it. Once the window reopens for us they have to be at least as good as the ones we can afford for their positions. Otherwise they will either go (sold/loan) or be used as squad players, which is fine of course.

I guess nothing more to do other than watch and support the team now. And hope the outcome is more like what you described.

Yeah minimum has to be 6th/7th with mid 60's points anything else is failure and in those circumstance i honestly wouldn't be that distraught if Frank is relieved from his duties. The last thing i want to see is time for time sake like what United are doing. Frank has to earn the time by showing a solid evolution as a manager and learning from his mistakes. So far i can see potential, he managed the game quite well at Norwich and well and truly stood his ground against Klopp but on the flip side he's (in my opinion) the reason we have 2 points at Stamford Bridge instead of 6, the Sheffield game especially was criminal game management. 

One thing i do disagree with you on mind is it easy to avoid transition, even Ferguson couldn't avoid it (01-06).

[robsblubot 3,504]

26 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Yeah minimum has to be 6th/7th with mid 60's points anything else is failure and in those circumstance i honestly wouldn't be that distraught if Frank is relieved from his duties. The last thing i want to see is time for time sake like what United are doing. Frank has to earn the time by showing a solid evolution as a manager and learning from his mistakes. So far i can see potential, he managed the game quite well at Norwich and well and truly stood his ground against Klopp but on the flip side he's (in my opinion) the reason we have 2 points at Stamford Bridge instead of 6, the Sheffield game especially was criminal game management. 

One thing i do disagree with you on mind is it easy to avoid transition, even Ferguson couldn't avoid it (01-06).

Sounds about right. Sheffield was indeed bizarre... perhaps a hint of arrogance ignoring what was happening on the pitch? 

You are right.  Maybe I really meant a long forced transition which includes overusing youngsters from the academy. I’ve actually seen it before and did not work very well then.

there is a reason top clubs don’t rely as much in their academies for the starting xi.

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

7 hours ago, Robchels said:

That’d be a perfectly acceptable outcome, but some of us are worried about a very different one.

I’ve been through a few of these so called transitions, it usually means someone fucked up. That is because the best clubs have no rebuilding, just a constant organic and Gradual replacement of the players who are past with new talented ones. whether they come from the academy or elsewhere matters little, perhaps only for NT supporters.

thats by far the best way to develop youth imo. Barca is probably the best club at this transition.

You can’t build a winning mentality by losing and struggling. No one will be happy if we are losing games over and over again. Young players will start questioning their abilities (and managers) and lose confidence, far more than established players. Winning is very important esp for younger players. That’s why the best way to do this is slowly and with established role models who they can learn from.

Speaking of greed, Cho is yet to sign a contract and he is the closest thing, potential wise, to a Neymar (a few years away and still unlikely to me). I understand folks want the nice guy, the cool kid, but football is about winning and for that you need a good order of both grit and talent. The latter is especially difficult to find or produce, which is why it is so expensive.

a more realistic outcome is that half of these youngsters will not cut it. Once the window reopens for us they have to be at least as good as the ones we can afford for their positions. Otherwise they will either go (sold/loan) or be used as squad players, which is fine of course.

I guess nothing more to do other than watch and support the team now. And hope the outcome is more like what you described.

Well to be fair we all know Chelsea probably would not have gone this route (youngsters & Lampard) had everything at the club would be fine. I mean no ban and Roman back in London. Rather than a planned transition this actually is a kind of forced one given the ban and Roman's reluctance to splash big money at least until his visa problems get sorted. 

I mean Lampard or not, Chelsea would have still had to play this season with last season's squad - plus Pulisic. And no Hazard!!! I mean, this squad right now is not top 4 quality, not because they are dross, but because there are so many young and inexperienced guys. But at the same time, nor was (top 4 quality) a first team of Willian, Pedro, Alonso, Giroud (and all the others, bar the youngsters). I know you will probably say "But they did it already, finished 3rd last season" - I know this, but would you see that first team with no Hazard do it again this season? I personally do not. 

I agree youngsters need wins, but at the same time this is the perfect moment for them because there is no pressure and can develop w/o the burden of having to think "I need to score, do this, do that, we might be out of the title race, might be out of the Cup, need to winnat all costs, this is Chelsea, manager's position is in danger because I do not perform etc." 

I don't know for a fact (I would not be able to), but my view is that everybody at Cobham has been informed (from the higher up) this is a totally transitional season in which Lampard is 100% safe no matter what and has to play/develop Academy graduates. 

Will all this pay off in the long run? Nobody knows, we can only hope it will. But all I know is that there was probably never a better time to introduce the youngsters than now.

We've been fortunate enough to win so many major trophies during the last 15 years, maybe it is time for a dry patch for us, too. Liverpool have gone through this for years before last May and always spent to get back, Arsenal are yet to win a major trophy (don't count FA Cup) in bastard years and spend every summer, United it's their 6th season and they continue to spend with no results. 

It'll probably take a couple of years but I am sure we'll be back challenging for the title by 21/22 season. 

[Vesper 28,796]

Frank Lampard confirms Chelsea's 19-man Premier League squad

The Blues have confirmed their list of players for the season.

https://www.football.london/chelsea-fc/news/breaking-chelsea-premier-league-squad-16860176

 

[communicate 2,703]

I am interested to see what is Lampard vision for this team or what is his plan to bring this team back to contender status. 

Does he envision team like pool, two marauding fb, athletic cm, fast forwards. Or team full of passer and some runner like in city. 

With us having CHO, Mount, Kova, Puli,Ruben, kante. They provided Lamp with a good basis but It is very difficult to create a system to get the best out of everyone

[milka 3,346]

 

[NikkiCFC 7,946]

6 hours ago, milka said:

 

Lamps forbid him only thing he's good at 😂

[Vesper 28,796]

1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

Lamps forbid him only thing he's good at 😂

very strange

I never took issue with Luiz's long game, it was a big plus

his defence is why I was often dismayed, lolol

bobblehead

 

[Vesper 28,796]

Liverpool fans manufacture Sadio Mane stat, Chelsea Twitter hits back

https://www.chelsea-news.co/2019/09/liverpool-fans-manufacture-sadio-mane-stat-chelsea-twitter-hits-back/

Liverpool fans manufacturing information to make their players appear better than they actually are – is this news or merely a daily occurrence?

The Reds faithful are renown for forcing their agendas upon rival fans, whatever the cost or distortion of the truth. They have attempted to do so once again here.

Anfield Watch posted this below Sadio Mane stat on Twitter, which in fairness, is pretty damn impressive. If it were actually true, that is…

 

Chelsea Twitter legend ChelseaChadder struck back, rubbishing the supposed stat and clarifying that NINE representatives of our glorious club have achieved it in the past.

 

[Vesper 28,796]

IF we beat Wolves, and then win away at Ajax and Valencia (or draw those, but would certainly want to WIN all 3) 

I think we have a CHANCE at winning (or certainly not losing)

18 of the next 20 fixtures (Victimpool and Shitty are the only almost locks for losses if I am being honest) The 21st first game (and last one before X-Mass, is on December 21st, away at Spuds)

I think there will be some further EPL Cups games too, which should be wins. Away at Everton is the next hardest league game after away at Shitty (please NO SIX-NIL!), home with the Bindippers (probably close to the biggest non CL game of the year for me wishing for an upset, unless we get to the League Cup or FA Cup final, OR we drop down into the EL and get to the final again, as then CL for next year, and a return to the Super Cup is on the line), and away at Wolves.

Am I being cray cray?

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Just realised we had 3rd best defence last season. Despite obvious flaws and lot of complaining here, we didnt do as bad in general at all.

But this year, our defence is truly bad.

Hopefuly Rudi and Kante return improves our backline.

[NikkiCFC 7,946]

3 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Just realised we had 3rd best defence last season. Despite obvious flaws and lot of complaining here, we didnt do as bad in general at all.

But this year, our defence is truly bad.

Hopefuly Rudi and Kante return improves our backline.

Exactly, if you take away City and Bournemouth where we conceded 25% of our goals last season we had very solid defence. And it's weird because Alonso and Luiz played majority of games. 

[milka 3,346]

Chelsea have already given more Premier League minutes to English players aged 21 or younger this season (703) than in any of their previous 14 seasons, since José Mourinho gave 1,170 minutes in 2004-05. #CFC

[communicate 2,703]

On 9/8/2019 at 7:44 PM, BlueLyon said:

Just realised we had 3rd best defence last season. Despite obvious flaws and lot of complaining here, we didnt do as bad in general at all.

But this year, our defence is truly bad.

Hopefuly Rudi and Kante return improves our backline.

I don't think our defense was great last year but we played very slow possession football which limit opp chance plus we have Azpi staying back more. 

[manpe 10,861]

Last season Sarri spoke quite a bit about defensive positioning while having the ball. This was when we were too exposed to counter-attacks and leaked goals due to attacking players' positioning being too forward and not thinking about what would happen if they lost the ball, after which our style of play became more pragmatic and less fluid. It wasn't easy on the eye at times, but our defence certainly improved. I think this might be one of the issues now - players having maybe too much freedom, which means the team loses its shape defending quick counters. Perhaps the team needs more time and experience playing together, to develop that positional understanding and discipline.

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, manpe said:

Last season Sarri spoke quite a bit about defensive positioning while having the ball. This was when we were too exposed to counter-attacks and leaked goals due to attacking players' positioning being too forward and not thinking about what would happen if they lost the ball, after which our style of play became more pragmatic and less fluid. It wasn't easy on the eye at times, but our defence certainly improved. I think this might be one of the issues now - players having maybe too much freedom, which means the team loses its shape defending quick counters. Perhaps the team needs more time and experience playing together, to develop that positional understanding and discipline.

To say "it wasn't easy on the eye at times" is a HUGE understatement and you're being generous with the "at times".  It was only when Loftus-Cheek and CHO started playing and offering something different from all that relentless passing that we looked a tad better to watch.

As for the other point, Fabregas - IIRC, it was him - made the point about Sarri asking the players to make less forward runs after that Arsenal home game last season. 

[Jase 43,479]