The Conte Thread

[BlueStorm1003 539]

I decided to stay away from the forum for a few hours after the defeat, so that the feelings wouldn't get in the way. (At least not as much)

Today we were absolutely clueless. No two ways about it. But asking for him to get the axe is too much. I am angry at how we played, and can see that everyone else here is as well. But I won't write us off until December. Until then, I'll believe in the team and the manager. I hope Conte sees that Ivanovic hast to be dropped. I don't care if he is the vice-captain, he has to be dropped. We can't move forward with him. We just can't.

I strongly believe Conte is a quality manager, but it does feel like at times he seems lost in what he is doing, and I hope we won't see this again.

I don't know what the solution is, but I just hope Antonio finds it, and soon. I don't want last season to come back again, and I don't want us to become another Liverpool, or worse. If the board has any sense, they will understand that we need a better effort to get our targets. And if Conte has any sense, he will see that using the same right back that performed so badly last season won't help us get anywhere near top 4, no matter how good a coach he might be.

I, as anyone else here, can see that the squad is not up to standards, but I believe that the quality to be top 6, at least, is there. I just hope we can get things back on track.

I will not lose my head and faith in him until december. I will wait and hope that this is just signs of a transition. Because the last thing I want to see, is our club in this state. Now come on lads, we might be playing shit, but let's not start throwing around the faith we put in this man so early.

 

COME ON CONTE! COME BLUES!

[Henrique 9,133]

5 hours ago, Melanicus said:

I take back whatever negative I said about him... You can see that this guy honestly cares about Chelsea. I stand by him and hope he can work it out from this mess. In Conte we trust!

 

 

Really dont care that he says, actually there is on thing I care about what he said: "The pitch speaks the truth". Give us the solution on the pitch.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Solve our defense. Switch to 3-5-2 if it means we stop conceding 2 goals a game. 

[Alan Partridge 1,124]

We need to stick with Conte. Any manager would struggle with this defense. 

Put faith in the manager and get him the players he needs. You can't do things on the cheap and expect things to work out. We are miles away from competing with City. 

We will get ripped off in the transfer window but it's better than finishing outside top 4 again. City got pep his targets with no problem at all and so did Jose at United. 

Cahill, Ivanovic, Matic 

they need to be replaced ASAP 

Willian, Oscar aren't far behind. 

Unfortunately JT will need replacing soon too. 

 

Sell that arrogant keeper of ours that clearly doesn't give a shit. Madrid would buy him for about £60 million

 

Kante was a good buy but wasn't first choice. Bats is a decent player but pretty sure he wasn't signed to be second to Costa. 

Alonso is a quick fix and a Luiz was a panic buy. 

We didn't get a single first choice player. Whoever is in charge of negotiations needs to be sacked. 

Maybe the club are more interested in making profit from young players that get loaned out then sold. 

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Beyond the (understandable) knee-jerk reactions, of course Conte deserves a lot of criticism for this mini-crisis.

Yes, the individual performances, especially by Ivanovic and Cahill, have been at time disastrous, but much of issue is rooted in the system and tactics he chose to use.

The major issue we have in defense, for me, from the fact that Conte decided that we should defend with a 4-1-4-1 instead of the 4-4-2 we've been using for ages. The reasoning for that is that Conte wants to funnel the opposition attacks into the center towards Kante. While that does seem like it could be effective against a lot of teams in the league if we can get rid of the individual mistakes at the back (before Liverpool we had conceded the least shots on target in the league if I'm not mistaken), the down side of this is that it leaves Diego alone to press 2-3 of the opposition defenders when they have the ball. It was clear right from the start, and I was criticized for saying so after the West Ham match, that any team with ball-playing CBs would be able to pin us back by passing their way into our final third. That's exactly what happened against both Liverpool and Arsenal in the first half.

The major issue we have in our offense is that, the Burnley match aside, we just are not scoring nearly enough goals with one striker on the pitch. That is incredibly worrying considering both Hazard and Costa have been in great form. Yes, part of the lack of goals has been down to poor finishing and part is down to the fact that our fullbacks lack proficiency in aiding attacks, but a huge part as well is down to the fact that we have two midfielders in Kante and Matic who not only contribute little to most attacks, but, particularly in the case of Matic, usually slow down our transition and ball circulation due to lack of technical ability on the ball. 

Finally, a more minor issue I think we have with Conte is his unwillingness to show any balls in a lot of his decisions. From how quickly he dropped the 4-4-2, to not starting Cesc, to how late he keeps his subs, to how we approached the Liverpool and Arsenal matches, to the fact that he didn't dare drop Cahill against Arsenal despite his disastrous performances in the previous two matches. I get that everyone one of those decisions has its reasons but the fact that they all seem to be going in the direction of 'cautiousness' instead of taking some risks is worrying, at least to me. 

I get that there are a million other factors to the situation than Conte, not least of which are the clubs failure in the transfer markets since summer 2014. But as head coach Conte naturally shoulders most of the blame and he has A LOT of work still to do if we want to finish in the top 4 this season. 

[kellzfresh 7,229]

I found this post on Facebook, which is sadly a true statement on things:

 

"Ultimately, I think Chelsea is trying to play a slow-paced game in an increasingly fast-paced league, and it just isn't working anymore. We aren't trying to press our opponents and win the ball high up the midfield, but are content to sit back and invite pressure, which we obviously can't handle. When we do have the ball, we pass it back to our defenders way more than we should, which results in a lack of creative play and more on-the-ball errors that lead to goals for our opponents. The slow, possession-heavy game that we seem to want to play has lost its place in the Premier League - whether football supporters like it or not.
Because of this, we need to change our attitude. Outrun the other teams. Put the pressure on. Do whatever you can to win every ball.
Don't give anybody more than a few seconds in possession. This is how we have to think if we want to keep up with the likes of Manchester City, Liverpool, and yes - even Arsenal (as much as that hurts to say).
I'm not a master tactician, and I don't pretend to have all the answers that will ensure a Chelsea finish in the top 4 this season, but I'm tired of seeing us get completely outworked by the teams that we play.  We either need to be an incredible counter-attacking team (which we aren't), or we need to be the hardest working team in the league. Until one of those options becomes a reality, I don't see us challenging for the title."

[kellzfresh 7,229]

9 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

Beyond the (understandable) knee-jerk reactions, of course Conte deserves a lot of criticism for this mini-crisis.

Yes, the individual performances, especially by Ivanovic and Cahill, have been at time disastrous, but much of issue is rooted in the system and tactics he chose to use.

The major issue we have in defense, for me, from the fact that Conte decided that we should defend with a 4-1-4-1 instead of the 4-4-2 we've been using for ages. The reasoning for that is that Conte wants to funnel the opposition attacks into the center towards Kante. While that does seem like it could be effective against a lot of teams in the league if we can get rid of the individual mistakes at the back (before Liverpool we had conceded the least shots on target in the league if I'm not mistaken), the down side of this is that it leaves Diego alone to press 2-3 of the opposition defenders when they have the ball. It was clear right from the start, and I was criticized for saying so after the West Ham match, that any team with ball-playing CBs would be able to pin us back by passing their way into our final third. That's exactly what happened against both Liverpool and Arsenal in the first half.

The major issue we have in our offense is that, the Burnley match aside, we just are not scoring nearly enough goals with one striker on the pitch. That is incredibly worrying considering both Hazard and Costa have been in great form. Yes, part of the lack of goals has been down to poor finishing and part is down to the fact that our fullbacks lack proficiency in aiding attacks, but a huge part as well is down to the fact that we have two midfielders in Kante and Matic who not only contribute little to most attacks, but, particularly in the case of Matic, usually slow down our transition and ball circulation due to lack of technical ability on the ball. 

Finally, a more minor issue I think we have with Conte is his unwillingness to show any balls in a lot of his decisions. From how quickly he dropped the 4-4-2, to not starting Cesc, to how late he keeps his subs, to the fact that he didn't dare drop Cahill against Arsenal despite his disastrous performances in the previous two matches. I get that everyone one of those decisions has its reasons but the fact that they all seem to be going in the direction of 'cautiousness' instead of taking some risks is worrying, at least to me. 

I get that there are a million other factors to the situation than Conte, not least of which are the clubs failure in the transfer markets since summer 2014. But as head coach Conte naturally shoulders most of the blame and he has A LOT of work still to do if we want to finish in the top 4 this season. 

You watched Juventus a lot when Conte was there, if I remember correctly. Why doesn't Conte press the opponent ??? Why does he like us to soak pressure and build play slowly instead of pressing and attacking quickly with intensity?? 

This is what I've noticed against two teams that can keep the ball better than us. If that's what we're going to be doing against every big team, then we have even bigger problems than I thought.  

[CHOULO19 24,332]

2 minutes ago, kellzfresh said:

You watched Juventus a lot when Conte was there, if I remember correctly. Why doesn't Conte press the opponent ??? Why does he like us to soak pressure and build play slowly instead of pressing and attacking quickly with intensity?? 

This is what I've noticed against two teams that can keep the ball better than us. If that's what we're going to be doing against every big team, then we have even bigger problems than I thought.  

As I tried to point out with a discussion with DYC (I think) last week that the circumstances at Juve were pretty different as was the league. In his first season Juve were a team not expected to even finish in the top 4 so playing on the counter vs the Milans was normal while in his second and third seasons Juve was by far the biggest team in the league and everyone basically parked the bus against them so pressing high was a must. In the CL there weren't many examples to take any conclusions out of.

But I do think his approach here has been different than what he was like or at least what I was expecting. He seems more afraid here...

[kellzfresh 7,229]

15 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

As I tried to point out with a discussion with DYC (I think) last week that the circumstances at Juve were pretty different as was the league. In his first season Juve were a team not expected to even finish in the top 4 so playing on the counter vs the Milans was normal while in his second and third seasons Juve was by far the biggest team in the league and everyone basically parked the bus against them so pressing high was a must. In the CL there weren't many examples to take any conclusions out of.

But I do think his approach here has been different than what he was like or at least what I was expecting. He seems more afraid here...

But if he played on the counter, did he sit deep like we've been doing or did he press the opponent when they had the ball. I just want to know if Conte ever implemented a pressing system before. 

Because so far this season, pressing doesn't seem to be a part of Conte's tactics. This will work against the smaller teams because we'll keep the possession as he's been training us to do, but against big teams that can keep the ball better than us?? Surely we've got to be pressing them into mistakes because this team does not know the meaning of defend. Unless the soaking pressure style works with a 3-4-3 

[Melanicus 5,208]

Why is noone covering Walcott, how can he behind our line in front of the goal so easily?

Why are both CBs running at the same man, when you can clearly see Ozil is making a run in the box?

[Antonio8 736]

as i wrote two days ago david luiz and cahill are imbarassing..

conte will pass to the 352 when JT will be able to play..

                curtois

azpi  cahill  terry  luiz  alonso

  kante    fabregas  matic (chalobah)

           costa       hazard

[kellzfresh 7,229]

7 minutes ago, Antonio8 said:

as i wrote two days ago david luiz and cahill are imbarassing..

conte will pass to the 352 when JT will be able to play..

                curtois

azpi  cahill  terry  luiz  alonso

  kante    fabregas  matic (chalobah)

           costa       hazard

Honestly I'm hoping Conte gives this formation a try. We have a lot of problems but the major one is conceding 2 goals a game.

Conte doesn't press, so the formation we're using is useless since we won't be able to cover all the spaces when sitting back and soaking pressure. But 3-5-2 might provide the much needed security we desperately need at the back 

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Our defense is a curse to this club. When Conte first came, he intended to play with a very attacking 4-4-2/4-2-4 formation but the defence don't know what to do when defending one on one so Conte scrapped this for 4-3-3/4-5-1. 

Till now we're still conceding 2 goals per game and we're looking at the possibility of us moving into a very defensive 3-5-2 just to accommodate our defense. This defence is a huge burden to bear. 😔  

 

[Leif 6,006]

He said he's the tailor for the team. Well if you tailor the best suit in the world, but a literal piece of poo wears that suit, it won't suddenly be well dressed. It is poop. It'll never be well dressed, because the man who wears the clothes makes them. 

We are the poop. You cannot make a suit look good on our players. So don't play to their 'strengths' in a 4-3-3 Conte, play to your strengths in a 4-4-2. They won't fit either way, but better to have a tailor who dictates how a fitting goes, as opposed to letting the client who knows fuck all about fits dictate the measurements. 

In a subtle way, player power wins again.

[Darogba 112]

I wasn't that excited when we got him as I didn't really think he was that good, and unfortunately looks like I'm right. Yes he did well at Juventus but Serie A  was  a one team league. Allegri was wank at Milan but goes to Juventus and suddenly becomes a world class manager. 

Land let's not even talk about his poor record in Europe with juventus. 

 

[Leif 6,006]

In Italy / at Juve you can bench who you want when you underperform, the media won't go crazy and the fans won't either (unless you bench Higuain randomly for a big game vs. Inter, heh Allegri.)

Over here, we're far more sentimental about players, and managers to staff to owners to journalists know this. This is why we Chelsea have kept so many old players over the years even after they've been over the hill. It's why there's uproar when Rooney is dropped, uproar caused by the same people who admit how average he's become. 

When you bench Cahill or Ivanovic, our club sees it as, removing identity from the team. We know Roman himself has wanted us to have a distinct identity. If we can't have that in the style we play, the only other way to keep a consistent identity is by the players we field and give limelight to. So, that is what we do. Why do we do it? Because our league has no idea how behind it is. 

You can't go to Madrid and suddenly drop Ramos or Ronaldo for underperforming, even for 10+ games in a row. It's not right, but it is what it is. If suddenly we had 2 youth team products lining up each week (like Aina & Chalobah), our Chinese & Filipino fans etc. would be baffled. Who are these players? They would @ misguided abuse at our Chelsea Twitter account lol. 

Football, especially in the Premier League, is about brands. It's about faces. It is not and has not been about for a very, very long time, playing the best XI for a given game. If that were the case, every team in the league would be fielding inconsistent line-ups each week in an effort to exploit whoever they face. But no. Identity and 'respect' to the first team players comes first. 

[Leif 6,006]

Perhaps Conte can't use the players he wants, like our youth, like our new signings too, because we have this clear distinction in the PL between senior players / young/inexperienced players. In Serie A, especially at Juventus under Conte, there was no such distinction. Players were players and even the board were happy to see random youth products thrown on the pitch and suddenly blossom into consistent starters. There is no disrespect in benching a mainstay all of a sudden when a new player performs better, not over there. Over here, completely different scenario. We are the entertainment league, not the football league, so expect no logic from us, only fireworks.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,897]

37 minutes ago, kellzfresh said:

Our defense is a curse to this club. When Conte first came, he intended to play with a very attacking 4-4-2/4-2-4 formation but the defence don't know what to do when defending one on one so Conte scrapped this for 4-3-3/4-5-1. 

Till now we're still conceding 2 goals per game and we're looking at the possibility of us moving into a very defensive 3-5-2 just to accommodate our defense. This defence is a huge burden to bear. 😔  

 

I think the defence gets too much of the blame.

Clearly there are problems among the defenders but our front six don't take the pressure off their teammates as much as they should. In saying this, I don't mean just in terms of tracking back or pressing, but also in terms of their offensive contributions. The weakness of our team when in possession plays a major part in our lack of defensive organisation.