The Mourinho Thread

[Tomo 21,684]

The real one that pains me is a Chelsea fan telling another that he's supporting Mourinho too much.

Someone said that to supporter the other day (saying he's a troll) and to someone else in the KDB thread. Like if an arsenal fan tells a Chelsea fan he is oversupporting Mourinho I'll understand the hatred, but not a Chelsea fan

Not only that but some of those same people use to beat down criticism of Di Matteo by bringing up Munich likewise Ancelotti/double, yet back to back titles breaking almost every record in the book isn't enough

It's hilarious they can't even see their sheer hypocrisy.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,776]

Not only that but some of those same people use to beat down criticism of Di Matteo by bringing up Munich likewise Ancelotti/double, yet back to back titles breaking almost every record in the book isn't enough

It's hilarious they can't even see their sheer hypocrisy.

Carlo is a relevant example in my book. In my opinion he got lucky and benefited from a massive coincidence. A lot of our players just happened to fall into the form of their lives at the same time. For a few short months covering the second half of 09/10 and the first quarter of 10/11, a group of key performers were firing on all cylinders and powered us (just) to the double. Before and after that period however Carlo seemed little more than a bystander watching a train wreck, but powerless to stop it. I couldn't make my mind up if he was waiting for his luck to change or for his pay-off.

I simply don't believe Jose would have been so passive as our post-double season crashed and burned. While the sun shone on his team, Carlo basked in the light but when the dark times arrived he pulled no strings, changed no plans, made no difference. He was a complete non-factor. Not even Jose's biggest critics could ever say that about The Special One.

[zolayes 14,489]

Tommy Docherty was in charge when I became a fan of this club and I've seen many men move through that office since. If the most I can do for Jose is to describe him as the best of the bunch, the number 1, then, in an effort to keep things in their proper proportion, I'd have to describe the next best (Hiddink) as number 5. Rubbish maths, but everybody gets what I mean.

We have a small squad containing many players with admirable qualities but too few of absolute quality.

We are top of the league.

Jose Mourinho.

We were better last season than we had been the one before that.

We are better again this season than we were during the previous one.

Jose Mourinho.

We will be better next season than we are this.

Jose Mourinho.

YOU were about 6 when the Doc left .. I saw his babes and they played the Chelsea way

[lionsden 4,689]

Not only that but some of those same people use to beat down criticism of Di Matteo by bringing up Munich likewise Ancelotti/double, yet back to back titles breaking almost every record in the book isn't enough

It's hilarious they can't even see their sheer hypocrisy.

The real reason why Jose isn't popular with some is because of his nasty/insufferable attitude and excessive baggage and controversial behaviors which many deem down right unnecessary, repetitive and unprofessional. Never mind his broken promises and stubbornness. he even managed to lambast the fans who spend their valuable time and hard earned money to watch their team.

Carlo on the otherhand was/is a perfect gentleman who manages to achieve success throughout his career with minimal fuss and without the use of controversy as weapon/tool.

If jose was more tolerable and trustworthy, those who appear to be harsh on him would cut him the same slacks that are afforded to other managers like Di matteo and carlo and endear to him. So it's more of a character and personality issue. That's just my take on the issue. I could be wrong though as I can't speak for everyone.

[zolayes 14,489]

The real reason why Jose isn't popular with some is his attitude and excessive baggage and controversial behaviors which many deem down right unnecessary, repetitive and unprofessional. Never mind his broken promises and stubbornness.

Carlo on the otherhand was/is a perfect gentleman who manages to achieve success throughout his career with minimal fuss and without the use of controversy as weapon/tool.

If jose was more tolerable and trustworthy, those who appear to be harsh on him would cut him the same slacks that are afforded to other managers like Di matteo and carlo. That's just my take on the issue. I could be wrong though as I can't speak for everyone.

YOU have summed up perfectly MANY of my views ,, THANKS

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

If he is happy with the RW, then why has he spent so much on the one position in less than two years?! Why did he prefer to bring back Moses instead of go for Cuadrado? Simple questions and they have a simple answer - he has not got it right. Willian is more of a CAM, but because he has high acceleration and work rate he is farmed out on the wing, even though he slows down play and can't cross. José has decided that Moses, KDB (a CAM), Schurrle (a LW) and Salah are not right. Now Cuadrado is here and I already had my reservations about him, but if he wasn't José 1st choice then my confidence in him has absolutely plummeted.

Listen lads, I am not attacking José. I want him to stay and I want him to get it right. Saying that, he should not be exempt from criticism. In the same way that he got it absolutely spot on with Matic, Fabregas and Costa, he has made a fucking mess of the RW in my eyes.

Think you misunderstood me. I'm not defending Mourinho. I don't believe our right side is working but i just think that Mourinho believes it's working.

Why else would he buy Cuadrado ? I mean if he's not happy with our RW scoring and assisting so little why didn't he just go out and buy a high scoring RW ?

Instead he went for a 26 y old RW that has scored only 30 goals in his entire career (over 200 appearances).

The root of our right wing problem is Ivanovic. With him playing right back the primary job of our right winger isn't, try and score/assist, it's to provide defensive cover for Ivanovic.

As long as Mourinho choses to play Ivanovic our RW will continue to be a mess. Mourinho can throw as much money at it as he likes it just doesn't work but again i think he believes it does work and will continue to play like that.

[zolayes 14,489]

Think you misunderstood me. I'm not defending Mourinho. I don't believe our right side is working but i just think that Mourinho believes it's working.

Why else would he buy Cuadrado ? I mean if he's not happy with our RW scoring and assisting so little why didn't he just go out and buy a high scoring RW ?

Instead he went for a 26 y old RW that has scored only 30 goals in his entire career (over 200 appearances).

The root of our right wing problem is Ivanovic. With him playing right back the primary job of our right winger isn't, try and score/assist, it's to provide defensive cover for Ivanovic.

As long as Mourinho choses to play Ivanovic our RW will continue to be a mess. Mourinho can throw as much money at it as he likes it just doesn't work but again i think he believes it does work and will continue to play like that.

play azpi at rb and brana at rw

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

play azpi at rb and brana at rw

How about we play Azpi at RB and tell Brana the season ended early ?

[OhForAGreavsie 5,776]

YOU were about 6 when the Doc left .. I saw his babes and they played the Chelsea way

How d'you know?

The Doc would be number three on my list. I only saw one full match under his leadership, the 1967 Cup Final. (On telly.) I envy people who saw his team properly.

There was certainly no Kings Road swagger in evidence at Wembley that day. What Tommy Doc achieved for the club however, putting us back on the map after the post title slump, and re-establishing a club identity, should never be forgotten. For similar reasons, I rank Hoddle at number four in the list of my Chelsea managers.

[Joker10 946]

The League normally is won by the best team (or one of the best teams if they are similar) the CHampions League it's not as simple as that, for example in the past 11 seasons we have 4 underdogs winning the competition: Porto 2004 Liverpool 2005 Inter 2010 Chelsea 2012 And that happens because it's a cup like the FA Cup or any other cup. For example Portsmouth and Wigan also won the FA Cup but they wouldn't do it in the League in a million attempts. The Champions League is more important than the League, it's more unpredictable, there are always 8 great teams fighting for it, it's a cup and it's not the best way to measure the value of a team. Rea Madrid was horrible in some of their Champions League wins being 6th like Chelsea was in 2012.

There is a big difference between Wigan and the top teams, but the differnece between those CL winners you mentioned and the perceived best teams are very little. Porto, Liverpool, Inter, and Chelsea were all very capable teams they can beat anyone on any day and they did.

In the CL teams like Malmo, Maribor, APOEL, etc . Those team are the equivalent of Wigan, Portmouth, and Birminham, etc. No chance of winning the CL in any lifetime at their current level.

Also is the league format or CL format the best way to determine the best team? I don't think there is a best answer, it could be argued and argued. Here in the United States, all of the major sports: NBA, NFL, MLB, and NHL decides the best team in a Playoff format(equivalent to CL). No Champion is ever crowned the best team in a regular season. So here in the states the belief is a playoff format is a much better way to determine a champion then a whole long season of competition. So it is about preference.

I personally think the best team in the PL does not win it all of the time, because you could lose to all of the best teams in the league but if you are better at beating the buttom feeders then you could become champion. Like last season we got the most points against the best team, but City won the league because they beat the worst teams better. Were they the better team?

So in conclusion i would say the league format and CL format, determines two very different best teams. Just like the marathan and sprinter example i used before, which is better? quite subjective.

As for your rest of your thread, are you arguing that Mou has not spent enough money?

Because i am honestly confused, i just cannot comprehind that. I am not sure what you are getting at?

I don't really mean to be rude at all and i hope you don't take it that way, i just don't undertand the point you are trying to make.

As for ManU they will be better next season, they can spend another 200m i still think they are another season away as a legit title contender. As long as us and City make a gradual improvement.

Hmm you say best teams in Europe and then the World? CL only covers Europe

But aside from that - fair points. But Spurs have spent big and are still shit. Spending <> Success - although it certainly helps

I completely agree, spending does not equate to success. Like you said it certainly helps, if you identify a need or a problem, it is much better to have the financial resources then lack it.

You are right you need to know how to utlize it.

[The Mak 4,459]

Think you misunderstood me. I'm not defending Mourinho. I don't believe our right side is working but i just think that Mourinho believes it's working.

Why else would he buy Cuadrado ? I mean if he's not happy with our RW scoring and assisting so little why didn't he just go out and buy a high scoring RW ?

Instead he went for a 26 y old RW that has scored only 30 goals in his entire career (over 200 appearances).

The root of our right wing problem is Ivanovic. With him playing right back the primary job of our right winger isn't, try and score/assist, it's to provide defensive cover for Ivanovic.

As long as Mourinho choses to play Ivanovic our RW will continue to be a mess. Mourinho can throw as much money at it as he likes it just doesn't work but again i think he believes it does work and will continue to play like that.

A misunderstanding is right, I totally agree with you!

[didierforever 7,349]

Eh, yes I can. It's still money being spent on one position. And if you want to bring net into it, it means absolutely nothing. He has spent money on the one position when efforts/money could have been focused elsewhere - like a CB. He used the Schurrle (a LW) money to buy a RW, leaving no natural cover for Hazard if he gets injured - I highlighted this before, this was a fucking massive risk. It could've potentially thrown away the title if it went tits up.

So, if anything, by bringing net into it through including the likes of Schurrle (who was for a different position), it accentuates how wrong José has got fixing the RW - he spent all that money and even weakened other areas of the pitch to get yet another player for the RW. This is without mentioning the fact he would rather recall Moses than spend 26m on Cuadrado...this note in particular leaves me with the gut feeling that Cuadrado will be a humungous, regrettable, expensive flop. But that's just my feeling, not that I want it to happen.

And I am citing KDB and Salah because they are clearly good players. Alright, Salah might need a particular system, but it is undeniable how good KDB can be - certainly better than any of our AMs, besides Hazard. If José wasn't so dogmatic about certain players, we could've had two world-class AMs, saving a ton of transfer hassle and prolonging our final product. These sales were not specifically like for like RW replacements anyway, as I will explain...

i am happy for you if u can make sense of it cos honestly i cant.

we bought willian after having mata, schurrle as winger options cos jose was not happy with what we had. and then we sold mata. similarly, we bought salah cos we sold mata and kdb. we bought cuadrado, cos we sold schurrle. "spending" is not an independent event. atleast not in this case scenario. also, how many matches did schurlle play as a LW and how many as a RW, cos as far as i remember, most of his starts have been as a sub. schurrle was not a RW for us. its like saying willian is a CAM for us just cos thats his main position.

[didierforever 7,349]

I think Real Madrid has done the same for the last two season. That even though they spend a lot it's less because net spend ain't as much since they sold players as well.

But people don't attribute it to Carlo but Florentino and his board....

and rightly so. perez should get the credit/critique about the RM transfers. honestly, selling ADM and alonso for james is an asenine transfer. meanwhile, our board should get the credit for the amount that we spend or receive in the transfer, but our targets would without a doubt be defined by jose.

[Rom2013 446]

There is a big difference between Wigan and the top teams, but the differnece between those CL winners you mentioned and the perceived best teams are very little. Porto, Liverpool, Inter, and Chelsea were all very capable teams they can beat anyone on any day and they did.

In the CL teams like Malmo, Maribor, APOEL, etc . Those team are the equivalent of Wigan, Portmouth, and Birminham, etc. No chance of winning the CL in any lifetime at their current level.

Also is the league format or CL format the best way to determine the best team? I don't think there is a best answer, it could be argued and argued. Here in the United States, all of the major sports: NBA, NFL, MLB, and NHL decides the best team in a Playoff format(equivalent to CL). No Champion is ever crowned the best team in a regular season. So here in the states the belief is a playoff format is a much better way to determine a champion then a whole long season of competition. So it is about preference.

I personally think the best team in the PL does not win it all of the time, because you could lose to all of the best teams in the league but if you are better at beating the buttom feeders then you could become champion. Like last season we got the most points against the best team, but City won the league because they beat the worst teams better. Were they the better team?

So in conclusion i would say the league format and CL format, determines two very different best teams. Just like the marathan and sprinter example i used before, which is better? quite subjective.

As for your rest of your thread, are you arguing that Mou has not spent enough money?

Because i am honestly confused, i just cannot comprehind that. I am not sure what you are getting at?

I don't really mean to be rude at all and i hope you don't take it that way, i just don't undertand the point you are trying to make.

As for ManU they will be better next season, they can spend another 200m i still think they are another season away as a legit title contender. As long as us and City make a gradual improvement.

I completely agree, spending does not equate to success. Like you said it certainly helps, if you identify a need or a problem, it is much better to have the financial resources then lack it.

You are right you need to know how to utlize it.

I have a lot of points to make.

First: The Champions League is the most important trophy in football but it's not the best way to measure the quality of a team. For example in 2004, if you put those 32 teams in a League, Porto with luck would be 6th or 7th in the table, the same for Liverpool in 2005... they would have a lot less chances to win it because they had no quality for that. About the quality of Porto I would bet that all the team of Porto cost less than half the value Madrid paid for FIgo at that time.

I think the playoffs of the NBA are played in the best of seven which gives some regularity to the thing, anyway the best way to measure a team is a League not the playoff system... anyone that follows football knows that the Barcelona of 2010 was impossible to beat in a League by any team in the world at that time, they were clearly the best team and they lost to Inter.

This leads us to another thing... you can garantee you will fight for the League title, but you can't do it with the Champions League. For exampe we are a lot better this season, PSG seemed to be with problems... last season we won against them... this season we lost. If we were in the French League we would be CHampions by now with the lack of quality PSG showed this season and last season probably we wouldn't.

The CHampions League will be always a long term project for a team, even if you are clearly the best team in the world there is a big probability of not winning the title.

Second: We are at least the 4th team in terms of net spending (the real indicator of financial investment) in the League in the last 2 seasons, but still we are the best team in the country and the team that improved the most.

And here we have a lot of problems... If we don't start spending, we can't fight with Manchester United in the future regularly, We need a new stadium TODAY.We need to close the financial gap to United and other giants in Europe or we will have problems to fight for the Champions League and the League.

Mourinho is in a club with a lot of issues, in a period where other teams have better finantial possibilities and still he is winning titles.

Third: Almost all the sells you say Mourinho did in this team were inevitable because of our financial problems. The club had/has a structural deficit and we needed to sell every season 2 or 3 good players to balance that. You can think it would be good to have Mata, KdB and David Luiz... but we would need to sell Lukaku, Hazard and Azpi... or Ramires, Courtois and Oscar... or ...

What really matters is that we have today a better team than the mess we had 2 seasons ago, we are the best team in the country with virtually no net spending in the team, and the other teams spent more than us and we improved more than them...

[kellzfresh 7,226]

I have a lot of points to make.

First: The Champions League is the most important trophy in football but it's not the best way to measure the quality of a team. For example in 2004, if you put those 32 teams in a League, Porto with luck would be 6th or 7th in the table, the same for Liverpool in 2005... they would have a lot less chances to win it because they had no quality for that. About the quality of Porto I would bet that all the team of Porto cost less than half the value Madrid paid for FIgo at that time.

I think the playoffs of the NBA are played in the best of seven which gives some regularity to the thing, anyway the best way to measure a team is a League not the playoff system... anyone that follows football knows that the Barcelona of 2010 was impossible to beat in a League by any team in the world at that time, they were clearly the best team and they lost to Inter.

This leads us to another thing... you can garantee you will fight for the League title, but you can't do it with the Champions League. For exampe we are a lot better this season, PSG seemed to be with problems... last season we won against them... this season we lost. If we were in the French League we would be CHampions by now with the lack of quality PSG showed this season and last season probably we wouldn't.

The CHampions League will be always a long term project for a team, even if you are clearly the best team in the world there is a big probability of not winning the title.

Second: We are at least the 4th team in terms of net spending (the real indicator of financial investment) in the League in the last 2 seasons, but still we are the best team in the country and the team that improved the most.

And here we have a lot of problems... If we don't start spending, we can't fight with Manchester United in the future regularly, We need a new stadium TODAY.We need to close the financial gap to United and other giants in Europe or we will have problems to fight for the Champions League and the League.

Mourinho is in a club with a lot of issues, in a period where other teams have better finantial possibilities and still he is winning titles.

Third: Almost all the sells you say Mourinho did in this team were inevitable because of our financial problems. The club had/has a structural deficit and we needed to sell every season 2 or 3 good players to balance that. You can think it would be good to have Mata, KdB and David Luiz... but we would need to sell Lukaku, Hazard and Azpi... or Ramires, Courtois and Oscar... or ...

What really matters is that we have today a better team than the mess we had 2 seasons ago, we are the best team in the country with virtually no net spending in the team, and the other teams spent more than us and we improved more than them...

Agreed.

When Mourinho arrived here, we were on the same level as arsenal and a bit better than tottenham. Two years later we are the best team in the league, with the 4th-5th best net spend(4 epl teams spent more than they sold than us) under Mourinho.

What is putting a small dent over the progress is the quality of football for the second half of the season. The first half was fantastic for even the highest pessimists but maybe next season, getting more quality players who can adapt under pressing, and physically ready to not get physically dominated by teams like PSG.

[Blue Colored Sky 1,807]

Jose is omitted again for Manager of the Month award.

This is getting silly. He hasn't won once since he came back even though his team sits atop of the League since August. Also had time in last season being 1st for quite a bit. Overall I am sure that Chelsea has been first for majority of his 2 years spell.

Meanwhile Mr Pellegrini already has 3 recognitions ! 3 to 0 !

You would think that Jose at least is going to win Yearly award, however they say that either Koeman or, if he's going to survive, Dyche are safer bets.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

Jose is omitted again for Manager of the Month award.

This is getting silly. He hasn't won once since he came back even though his team sits atop of the League since August. Also had time in last season being 1st for quite a bit. Overall I am sure that Chelsea has been first for majority of his 2 years spell.

Meanwhile Mr Pellegrini already has 3 recognitions ! 3 to 0 !

You would think that Jose at least is going to win Yearly award, however they say that either Koeman or, if he's going to survive, Dyche are safer bets.

I suggest you shouldn't even bothered of that meaningless awards. Trophies in the end what is more important.

[kellzfresh 7,226]

I'm not sure what our team needs the most for next season. We had a few problems this season.

1. No quality on the same level as starters on the bench. (except luis)

2. Slow centerbacks who can't hold their own against one fast attacker, so if Matic has a bad game, our defense collapses.(Varane?)

3. We were physically bullied by a lot of teams in midfield. The old Chelsea I know could be outplayed but we were never bullied or outfought in the midfield. We need size and energy in some matches. We missed a David luiz besides Matic. (pogba, Andre Gomes)

4. We need a long range shooter in this team and it has to be a CM or AM. It's unacceptable the way we're too shy to take shots making it easy to defend us. (pogba, Andre Gomes)

5. We need another intelligent midfielder who can still tackle incase fabregas is marked out of the game. No one can provide creativity except hazard when fabregas is marked. (Koke, cabaye)

6. We need another goalscorer on the right wing. (reus)

It would be a perfect window if we get

Pogba /Andre Gomes

Koke

Reus /bale

Varane /make ivanovic CB

I know realistically we can only get two quality players out of those options but I'm not sure which two of those players we need that would improve our team the most.