The Mourinho Thread

[Rmpr 8,977]

I reckon Jose can't wait for this season to end just so he can change this team. You can tell he hates having these type of players.

He had a full transfer window to, at least, improve a few things. But what did he do? Oh yeah, bought two AMs (who arent even true wingers) and loaned our only good striker!

[Mouri_Matic 560]

He's not the only one. Somewhere else (guess it was match's thread) I read that we'll finally move out of top4 on Monday when we lose to Arsenal.

What the actual fuck is wrong with these people?

Yes, we may lose to Arsenal and we may drop out of the top 4 and we may collect four consecutive losses. I may win the lottery, Chelsea may sign 6 players in the window transfer approaching, NASA may start selling houses in Jupiter. What else may happen that we may post here?

It's not even about being optimistic or pessimist. It's about being damn annoying. If you don't have something good or relevant to say, shutting up may look like a great alternative. Sometimes you wonder if this is a Chelsea forum or if this is a ManU, ManCity, Arsenal, Liverpool forum. I may find less dramatic posts about our form in those places.

You should have been on Arsenal forum when they lost to Villa 3-1 lol, there were like 10 threads about sacking Wenger. MU forum 2 weeks ago, melt down at its best. RAWK last season, that was comedy gold, now Spurs forum as well.

Point is whenever the club is in bad shape/form, obviously there will be concerns shared around forum because the fans care, if we were winning consistently nobody would even have anything negative to say but we are not. The point of the forum is discussion though, not to praise players/coach. Because since they are not reading this, it will go unnoticed.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

Benitez was appointed on the 21st of November 2012.

At the time (19/11/12) we were third in the league and only 4 points behind United who were first.

On 26/12/12 we were still third in the league, but a full 11 points behind United.

By the end of April (2013) that gap had extended to a full 20 points.

The only good thing Benitez achieved at our club was the Europa League.

We underperformed in every other competition under his guidance.

Stop glorifying a manager that barely scraped a top 4 position in the league from a very strong starting position, and vilifying one who lead us to a first place CL group qualification and has us within two points of the Premier League leaders. And that's without even mentioning Mourinho's past achievements and track record. Winning the Europa League spared our blushes from even being in the competition to begin with, it wasn't a triumphant moment. And let's not forget the embarrassing Club World Cup defeat.

Absolutely.

He never made good managerial changes and all his experiments with Luiz in midfield and Oscar on the wings weren't tat fruitful either. I still remember all those like-for-like changes at the final minutes which made no differences what so ever on the team tactics.

He wasn't able to fix the side when our tactics broke down.

On the other hand, Mour goes from 4-2-3-1 to 4-3-3 to 5-3-2 and make it work like a charm, atleast most times.

[Phil Driver 503]

Yes Jose is famed for signing defenders who are not great defenders and Defensive midfielders who dont read and break up play,sure he wanted 10 no 10s ,did he want Schevchenko? and their is our problem at the moment, in two transfer windows time as long as Jose is choosing the players we are going to be fine with a balanced squad that defend properly and allow our flair players to flourish .

He could easily have won 1-0 at Stoke and Sunderland and other matches but he is working to a long term plan on the way we play ,which is too keep posession and attack but no team can win anything if they do not know how to defend properly and as we stand especially without John Terry we can't defend . Some of our football is brilliant though,add a non scoring centre forward to our defensive weakness and Jose has worked miracles to keep us where we are,he will get this right.

The home crowd will tear the place down if the board make another knee jerk decision and set the club back another two years just as Jose is seeing through the players who are surplus to requirement at Chelsea for different reasons. I think we are at the point where if there is any sign of the board not backing Jose it will be time to sack the board and I think they know that,thankfully.

[Mouri_Matic 560]

Yes Jose is famed for signing defenders who are not great defenders and Defensive midfielders who dont read and break up play,sure he wanted 10 no 10s ,did he want Schevchenko? and their is our problem at the moment, in two transfer windows time as long as Jose is choosing the players we are going to be fine with a balanced squad that defend properly and allow our flair players to flourish .

He could easily have won 1-0 at Stoke and Sunderland and other matches but he is working to a long term plan on the way we play ,which is too keep posession and attack but no team can win anything if they do not know how to defend properly and as we stand especially without John Terry we can't defend . Some of our football is brilliant though,add a non scoring centre forward to our defensive weakness and Jose has worked miracles to keep us where we are,he will get this right.

The home crowd will tear the place down if the board make another knee jerk decision and set the club back another two years just as Jose is seeing through the players who are surplus to requirement at Chelsea for different reasons. I think we are at the point where if there is any sign of the board not backing Jose it will be time to sack the board and I think they know that,thankfully.

He confirmed we will now starting to play more defensive football so long term plans are soon going out of the window

[Barbara 15,149]

Benitez was appointed on the 21st of November 2012.

At the time (19/11/12) we were third in the league and only 4 points behind United who were first.

On 26/12/12 we were still third in the league, but a full 11 points behind United.

By the end of April (2013) that gap had extended to a full 20 points.

The only good thing Benitez achieved at our club was the Europa League.

We underperformed in every other competition under his guidance.

Stop glorifying a manager that barely scraped a top 4 position in the league from a very strong starting position, and vilifying one who lead us to a first place CL group qualification and has us within two points of the Premier League leaders. And that's without even mentioning Mourinho's past achievements and track record. Winning the Europa League spared our blushes from even being in the competition to begin with, it wasn't a triumphant moment. And let's not forget the embarrassing Club World Cup defeat.

but we used to play beautiful football, they say. And he's made Mata our main player. So those two things alone are enough to make his team look better than Mourinho, when the truth is Mourinho's system is much superior to Rafa's. The thing is while Rafa had a few players (at least half his team) playing their best level, Mourinho currently relies in Hazard killing one match out of 5... and that's it. We don't have ONE single player at the top of his game right now bar John Terry (but then seeing how much we've conceded lately, even when he was playing, I guess that's not that reassuring).

Hazard is back to being okay after a spell of a few very good matches (I'm not blaming him, just stating what happened), our strikers suck, our defense is as leaky as it gets, we don't have a pivot (in that cause it isn't because of bad form, but simply because except Ramires, all our other options are at most squad members) and our AMs all fluctuate in form... that's Mourinho's main problem imo, but his system is far superior to Benitez's imo - hence his better results despite having a team that plays badly (or at least not good enough) consistently.

[Laylabelle 9,341]

Just looking at the upcoming fixtures for us, it is a long hard run, Arsenal on Monday, then Swansea on Thursday, then Liverpool on Sunday then another game on the first and it goes on...

Urgh Swansea...we were utter shite last season.Probably beat Arsenal and Liverpool and mess up the 'easier' fixtures...joy

A lot needs changing.We dont seem capable of scoring or defending at the moment.January window prices will be mental but something has to be done as we arent looking to get any better at the moment

[Blue Warrior 109]

The away form is the biggest concern, we are not clinical enough away from home. Home form will take care of itself. Back the manager to bring glory again to Stamford Bridge.

[robsblubot 3,464]

Regardless of personal preferences... there have been, and there are, many successful systems in football.

Jose's system hasn't been that successful for a very long time. Yes, he did well at Inter, but no such luck at Real, especially against Barcelona. He was hired to beat Barcelona and he was unable to.

My personal view is that both Barcelona, aside from the defensive problem they currently have (no CB whatsoever), and Bayern employ the best systems, with a slight edge for Bayern because they are a bit more aggressive and direct. These teams have very technical players in every position - no simple no nonsense player there. They all know what to do with the football once they retake it and to me that's their edge against the other sides.

People talking about defending, but defending is the responsibility of the entire team. So is attacking and keeping possession. How to keep possession if some of your players are not good passers? Don't matter where they play, they will eventually get involved and not able to pass.

We've been poorer than the standings show. We should've lost against WBA at home. But the most striking thing is that we've only beaten a single side from the top half of the standings: Southampton. We lost to newcastle and everton. Our wins, as I've pointed out then, have been mostly against the worse sides in the Premiere. Fulham and West Ham are shit right now and will prob be in or very close to the relegation zone at the end.

I don't share this adoration with managers some here do. Yes, Jose was successful at Chelsea, but that wasn't all due to him. He had an amazing and extremely expensive squad at his disposal. He's certainly a good manager, but he doesn't get to kick the football. Without the right players, and top players, there is only so much a manager can do. I've always thought a team should focus on the players and should have their own long-term planning, independently from any manager...because they do come and go.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Regardless of personal preferences... there have been, and there are, many successful systems in football.

Jose's system hasn't been that successful for a very long time. Yes, he did well at Inter, but no such luck at Real, especially against Barcelona. He was hired to beat Barcelona and he was unable to.

What are you on about? Take away the first season and Mourinho had a winning record against Barcelona.

His only real fault as a manager is the football his teams play are usually an eyesore. Apart from Spurs we easily play the worst brand of football in the Top Half and it doesn't look close to changing any time soon.

[Barbara 15,149]

Regardless of personal preferences... there have been, and there are, many successful systems in football.

Jose's system hasn't been that successful for a very long time. Yes, he did well at Inter, but no such luck at Real, especially against Barcelona. He was hired to beat Barcelona and he was unable to.

My personal view is that both Barcelona, aside from the defensive problem they currently have (no CB whatsoever), and Bayern employ the best systems, with a slight edge for Bayern because they are a bit more aggressive and direct. These teams have very technical players in every position - no simple no nonsense player there. They all know what to do with the football once they retake it and to me that's their edge against the other sides.

People talking about defending, but defending is the responsibility of the entire team. So is attacking and keeping possession. How to keep possession if some of your players are not good passers? Don't matter where they play, they will eventually get involved and not able to pass.

We've been poorer than the standings show. We should've lost against WBA at home. But the most striking thing is that we've only beaten a single side from the top half of the standings: Southampton. We lost to newcastle and everton. Our wins, as I've pointed out then, have been mostly against the worse sides in the Premiere. Fulham and West Ham are shit right now and will prob be in or very close to the relegation zone at the end.

I don't share this adoration with managers some here do. Yes, Jose was successful at Chelsea, but that wasn't all due to him. He had an amazing and extremely expensive squad at his disposal. He's certainly a good manager, but he doesn't get to kick the football. Without the right players, and top players, there is only so much a manager can do. I've always thought a team should focus on the players and should have their own long-term planning, independently from any manager...because they do come and go.

are you kidding? I'm not sure if you can be serious when he owned their asses in the last two seasons (had one defeat if I'm not wrong - if we don't consider the match after La Liga was lost by far last season) and we've beat the record of points and goals in the history of Spanish football (dominating Barcelona at Camp Nou and Bernabeu, winning Copa del Rey over them). He had 3 SFs in UCL consecutively after the team had a spell of 8 seasons losing in round of 16. We are the team that broke Barcelona's confidence if anything (although some of their players losing form and getting a bit old also influenced). So can you tell me exactly how his system didn't work there? He had a bad season in 2012/13 because he had a lot of opposition from a group of Spanish players in the group. If the players are against their manager, there's no way a team can win, and still they made it to UCL SF.

I'm going to do myself a big favor and stop coming to this thread (if not the whole forum) because I'm tired of reading all kind of shit written here. I didn't read the rest of your post and I have absolutely nothing against you and I even like a lot of your opinions, but that bold part right there is a completely ridiculous statement in my opinion.

[robsblubot 3,464]

are you kidding? I'm not sure if you can be serious when he owned their asses in the last two seasons (had one defeat if I'm not wrong - if we don't consider the match after La Liga was lost by far last season) and we've beat the record of points and goals in the history of Spanish football (dominating Barcelona at Camp Nou and Bernabeu, winning Copa del Rey over them). He had 3 SFs in UCL consecutively after the team had a spell of 8 seasons losing in round of 16. We are the team that broke Barcelona's confidence if anything (although some of their players losing form and getting a bit old also influenced). So can you tell me exactly how his system didn't work there? He had a bad season in 2012/13 because he had a lot of opposition from a group of Spanish players in the group. If the players are against their manager, there's no way a team can win, and still they made it to UCL SF.

I'm going to do myself a big favor and stop coming to this thread (if not the whole forum) because I'm tired of reading all kind of shit written here. I didn't read the rest of your post and I have absolutely nothing against you and I even like a lot of your opinions, but that bold part right there is a completely ridiculous statement in my opinion.

Whoa! That's what we do here... we disagree... otherwise this forum would be a lot less fun.

That was the least important point I made in my post, at least the one least cared about. I made a mistake though; Jose was hired to win the champions league and he failed at that. Real Madrid spend way too much money to be content with La Liga wins, even by beating Barcelona.

BTW, I am not talking about clubs, but systems. Barcelona's system is superior even with less expensive players on their roster.

It's a big tangent and I feel I am not qualified (less than BPL teams I mean) to talk about Real as I don't care that much about them - even though I prefer them to Barca.

[xPetrCechx 13,563]

The away form is the biggest concern, we are not clinical enough away from home. Home form will take care of itself. Back the manager to bring glory again to Stamford Bridge.

At Home Too.

[1chelsea 864]

are you kidding? I'm not sure if you can be serious when he owned their asses in the last two seasons (had one defeat if I'm not wrong - if we don't consider the match after La Liga was lost by far last season) and we've beat the record of points and goals in the history of Spanish football (dominating Barcelona at Camp Nou and Bernabeu, winning Copa del Rey over them). He had 3 SFs in UCL consecutively after the team had a spell of 8 seasons losing in round of 16. We are the team that broke Barcelona's confidence if anything (although some of their players losing form and getting a bit old also influenced). So can you tell me exactly how his system didn't work there? He had a bad season in 2012/13 because he had a lot of opposition from a group of Spanish players in the group. If the players are against their manager, there's no way a team can win, and still they made it to UCL SF.

I'm going to do myself a big favor and stop coming to this thread (if not the whole forum) because I'm tired of reading all kind of shit written here. I didn't read the rest of your post and I have absolutely nothing against you and I even like a lot of your opinions, but that bold part right there is a completely ridiculous statement in my opinion.

Whoa! That's what we do here... we disagree... otherwise this forum would be a lot less fun.

That was the least important point I made in my post, at least the one least cared about. I made a mistake though; Jose was hired to win the champions league and he failed at that. Real Madrid spend way too much money to be content with La Liga wins, even by beating Barcelona.

BTW, I am not talking about clubs, but systems. Barcelona's system is superior even with less expensive players on their roster.

It's a big tangent and I feel I am not qualified (less than BPL teams I mean) to talk about Real as I don't care that much about them - even though I prefer them to Barca.

If u talking tiki taka play Barca got it but everybody learn their kind of play style witch Madrid have and other teams. And who says Barca have less expensive player who there is cheap? Like I said earlier on all cars with it own designed engine if get the right engine to work with the other part of the car system u a produce the u have a sound car running.....

Jose has took a different approach from it defensive system of play and is going on the attacking system which is not is usual playing style it not going to work just like that there will be modifications to what's on ground by that time the modification is complete come back let hear u then.

Let hope he have the opportunity to go into the market and get the right tools to patch up our system, then I can start bad mouthing him if the is no improvement

[The_Flash 1,144]

I think end of December and January will be key, it will either be a good month for us or a shockingly bad one. We could have a very happy victorious manager or we may be looking for another one

[The Skipper 20,593]

Yeah, Ive been kind of wimp when it comes to this topic, avoiding taking any real stance or being too critical of Mourinho even though there are certain issues I have with him, which to be honest Ive had with him since his first stint here. Nonetheless I remain convinced that hes the right only person who can manage this club for reasons I wont go into now. I think my own concern (and maybe it isnt really one thats mourinhos doing) is that last season it seemed to me that a new spine of this team was emerging - and when I say 'spine' I mean players who were consistently performing at a higher standard compared to the rest of the team & were gradually taking more responsibilities, taking more ownership and taking more of a leadership role in the team. I would say these players were Mata, Luiz, Ramires and (to a lesser extent) Hazard. These were our standout players last season and the first 3 have been key players for us in the past two seasons. Now this season, out of those players, one has been distinctly inconsistent bordering on average, the other two have been on the peripheral margins (due to lost of form or has resulted in them being out of form, depending on what side of the argument you sit on) and only one has been able to carry on last season's form into the current campaign. Now I'm not criticizing Jose for going in a different direction and for making his own changes to the team. What I am saying is that in any team sport, when you have a group of players who represent the core of the team, there's a danger in alienating them.

We've seen this when clubs get promoted to a top tier league and the players who were key to getting them in that position suddenly become not good enough or irrelevant and more expensive players are brought in. We also saw this when AVB came in and suddenly players like Drogba, Lampard, Cole etc players who formed the very fabric of the clubs success for many years suddenly were marginalized and were deemed too old to play a key role. Last season, a new spine emerged and although the success was minimal (by this club's standards) these players showed a lot of heart, showed a lot of quality and for stretches of time showed consistently that carried the team.

Im no expert but I often wonder if by now we would be seeing more progress in the right direction if Jose or the club had focused their summer transfer dealings on acquiring the right players who could have complemented & increased the productivity of this new spine of the team. If we had focused on signing a proper right winger who could create more space for Mata & Hazard to operate and also signed a top striker who could I dont know, finish the chances they create; if we had focused on securing a defender to partner with Luiz one who had the right qualities to be able to mitigate his weakness and also one who could play a high line; if we had focused on signing a midfielder one who would not only complement Ramires but who would also provide some stability when Luiz ventures forward if we had done all of that, had been strategic and smart in acquiring the right pieces that would enable our standout players from last season (most of whom are entering their peak years) maybe just maybe we wouldnt be seeing the disjointed mess of performances that has become too much a frequent occurrence.

Some people greatly exaggerate Benitezs accomplishments at this club last season, but at the end of last season what I saw was some kind of foundation that had been laid with a group of players who were very much becoming the core of the team. Jose only had to improve on that system instead he tore up the blueprint up and started from scratch. That's fine, but by doing so weve now had to take two-step backwards. It took Benitez right till the end of the season before we began to see some kind of direction and cohesion. Was there really any need to start over?

Top post. Exactly how I feel.

[Barbara 15,149]

Whoa! That's what we do here... we disagree... otherwise this forum would be a lot less fun.

That was the least important point I made in my post, at least the one least cared about. I made a mistake though; Jose was hired to win the champions league and he failed at that. Real Madrid spend way too much money to be content with La Liga wins, even by beating Barcelona.

BTW, I am not talking about clubs, but systems. Barcelona's system is superior even with less expensive players on their roster.

It's a big tangent and I feel I am not qualified (less than BPL teams I mean) to talk about Real as I don't care that much about them - even though I prefer them to Barca.

I'm not taking away your right to have an opinion, I just think there's too much stuff I consider crazy in this thread, and for my own benefit I'll stop reading it. People will jump all sharks and while your post isn't crazy, as a Real Madrid fan I'll tell you it's completely inaccurate and I have many RM friends who agree with me and who are missing Mourinho there dearly. So why keep reading a thread only to be annoyed by most things said here? It's a personal problem I have, I'm not saying people should stop posting, I'll just stop reading because most I read here is overreaction... but for others it's not so to each their own.

But back to your post... so winning the UCL is that easy right? You just have to sign a manager and a couple of new guys and plim, the title is yours for the take? Then why it took Bayern three finals to win it again? Why Barcelona was humiliated by Bayern, why ManU was kicked out in Rof16 and groups stage in the last two years? Those were teams that entered the competition to win it, why didn't they? Why did Barcelona and Bayern lose to us two seasons ago? Oh that's right, because knock-out competitions can be unpredictable and there are a few top clubs other than RM playing it every year and clubs that have a great tradition on winning it and making finals.

Mourinho improved the team, his system worked as long as he had the players with him him. Only when there was a split in the group between pro-Mourinho (not even pro, but players who weren't against him, and just wanted to keep winning) and against-Mourinho players shit hit the fan and there was no way that team would win anything. It was divided and it was their fall. Mourinho's RM played much better than Carlo's RM does, and the squad was only improved since José left (although I'm not sure Bale + Isco makes up for Ozil leaving). RM is already 5 points behind a struggling Barcelona in La Liga, why is that?

We completely dominated Spain in the 2011/12 season, we handed Barcelona their ass that season and they struggled last season against us again. I'm not saying Mourinho was (or is) flawless or the manager he used to be in the past, and while saying he failed at RM is arguable, saying his system didn't work is completely unfair and untrue. RM played amazing football for two years under him, it was a pleasure to watch that team and on occasion and very specific matches we had oppositions that either played better than us or we were unlucky. I can talk about RM because I've watched around 90% of their matches in Mourinho's first two seasons and early last season before I was disgusted by Sergio Ramos, Casillas among others fuckers in the group that thought they were bigger than everything, including Real Madrid.

To make a comparison, I rate Mourinho's RM a 8,5/9 team. I rate Mourinho's Chelsea a scrappy 6.

[HD3D 1,038]

This, if that is the case what is the job of the director of football lol. So say our budget is £50m and Jose wants to spend £40m on Ibra for example, the club would never allowed it because he doesn't fit the policy, of course Jose would get the final says in transfer but never his own way completely.

Perhaps you didn't read my post correctly, or maybe you're just a little slow intellectually.

I've never said all managers are allowed to choose where the money is spent. I said the successful ones are. The manager is responsible for how the team plays, and as such, only HE knows what players will fit HIS tactics. If you hired an artist to make you a painting and demanded that he worked with materials that he didn't want nor asked for, in the end you couldn't complain if the artwork didn't look good. It's that simple.

But you seem to be too stupid to understand such a basic concept.

Here's an example of your club management philosophy at work:

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12088/9080335/tottenham-a-shambles-and-directors-of-football-dont-work-says-jeff-stelling