The Mourinho Thread

[Jase 43,479]

Considering our present form...

Saying Jose is an idiot, stubborn etc is understandable or saying player x,y,z are shit, garbage etc is also understandable.

What I don't understand is that when Chelsea wins, this thread is like a graveyard, but the moment we lose/draw, all the "Chelsea fans" magically come out of the woods to express their displeasures with the manager/players.

Why is it that after a win, none of these "Chelsea fans" come out to praise the team/individual players/manager?

Win/lose it's always good to analyse what went good/bad in a game.

That's TalkChelsea for you. 'Praising' is overrated. 'Criticizing' is the way forward.

[didierforever 7,349]

FaCup ? And in sure the 3-5-2 was ditched long before Christmas after trey lost at The Emirates but I could be wrong.

When I saw him at Pool u wasn't impressed at all and along with almost every Liverpool fan saying he was shocking doesn't bode well, you cite the lack of minutes, well it was enough for us to write off Cuadrado.

And with Bertrand, imho I think he is good at containing fast wingers on the most part like say Navas, but struggles against tricky players like Willian, I'm not saying he is a bad player, far from it, but he isn't this flawless defensively that is often portrayed.

210 minutes then? sorry, but not enough for me to judge a player.

i dont know when they switched from 3-5-2 but i do remember watching moses play a lot of matches as a RWB which was hilarious.

cuadrado was deemed surplus. we had better options than him in the squad (moses being one of them), willian being the other and then pedro came along.

to get back to form cuadrado would have needed time, which we just could not offer.

no one is saying he is flawless. no one is saying he is lahm. even JT is not flawless. but defensively he is quite good. i have never seen him struggle defensively.

[Blue Armour 4,759]

I absolutely get and appreciate where you are coming from. Trust me - I would normally be the one making your arguments

Haha, tbh I'm also a bit surprised that you're so critical of late, Muzchap. Maybe, we should all just take a break and come back when things have 'cooled down'.

[Spike 12,049]

A football manager is a lot like a film director. When a film is rubbish the director takes the blame.

[didierforever 7,349]

I would have kept Filipe Luis and gave him more playing time, but Mourinho didn't trust him enough.

Baba wasn't match fit to start for Chelsea, he was new to the country, Mourinho is not a magician, someone had to play and Ivanovic is still better than all of us. If someone thinks otherwise, feel free to submit an application, i wish you luck, you gonna need it!

Calling for Ivanovics head is popular, you will earn a lot of likes, but you have to think rationally, we don't have a better alternative!

we dont?

are u telling me that after 2 performances from baba you think he is half as bad as iva is currently? or zouma will be as a FB?

and by the way, if we dont have an alternative, whose fault is it?

why did we let luis go? why did we have to sell bertrand prematurely if we were going to let luis go?

why could we pay 21 million pounds for baba who apparently is not good enough to replace the worst player in premier league these days but not add a couple more and get ricardo rodriguez.

a 20 year old right back, played as a left back and OWNED pedro. things are not always linear in life. sometimes u (by u i mean jose) has to take risks. infact dropping iva and playing baba/zouma/hell even aina wont even be a risk right now. but for that, he has to show balls and drop his favourite.

[quickpassnmove 924]

Considering our present form...

Saying Jose is an idiot, stubborn etc is understandable or saying player x,y,z are shit, garbage etc is also understandable.

What I don't understand is that when Chelsea wins, this thread is like a graveyard, but the moment we lose/draw, all the "Chelsea fans" magically come out of the woods to express their displeasures with the manager/players.

Why is it that after a win, none of these "Chelsea fans" come out to praise the team/individual players/manager?

Win/lose it's always good to analyse what went good/bad in a game.

As for yesterday's match,

The negatives:

1. Many players were so bad individually that no amount of different starting lineups could have changed that.

2. The defensive midfield was so poor (just like most of our previous games) that the defense is almost every time exposed.

3. No leadership in the team. Poor defense organization.

4. Little or no passion before Ramires changed the game.

The positives:

1. We came back from two goals down. Even we could not do that last season against Newcastle or any other team.

2. We did not lose at Newcastle.

3. The subs were spot on.

4. Ramires played like he did during midweek... Fantastic!

I, for one, WOULD get on an online forum and praise a football club IF they demonstrated consistency and promise. Chelsea repeatedly have lacked a balanced squad and consistently lacked promising build-up play since about 2005. Some people can reply that they've been fans since the 60s or 70s; I really don't care. Why would I watch something that consistently disappoints and offers very little in the way of hope? That's just depressing.

**one note: I basically missed all of the successful Ancelotti season, so I cannot comment on that one season. If it weren't for Didier Drogba, I probably would have never bothered watching Chelsea after 2005 and IMO Chelsea relied upon him for way more than they ever should have since Robben's departure (among others).

When Nemanja Matic returned, David Luiz and F. Torres departed, I began to think that Chelsea were turning a page. With this manager, I cannot say things have a shimmer of hope --even if we have had success scouting and signing to potentially brilliant players while also fostering some good talent in the youth team and reserves. Jose, Emanalo, et al. can sign the best young players and we can all talk about Jose as "one of the best," but on any given week, one of the most dreadful matches I've had to watch for years has involved SLOW, INCOMPETENT Chelsea on the attack. HOW IS THAT CHANGING NOW?

It's hard to know what exactly has happened to Cesc Fabregas in one year, but it's possible that --Chelsea-- happened to him --along with the fact that he shouldn't be sitting in front of the back four. Jose's fault; not the player. The other possibility is that it's just the player and his own life/career/physical fitness, etc. --which I doubt is the main reason.

A player from Barca comes to Chelsea... that's a story of a player moving from a quick, up-tempo, cohesive passing side to one that plods along every week, sometimes increasing the tempo, but often relying too much upon individuals (who are not Messi or Ronaldo, or Marcelo, or Xavi, BTW).

[iseah100 5,612]

Oh fuck no. Juve over performed last season and their CL final berth was an anomaly much like Chelsea's was in 2012. They have a good team but nothing near world class.

Morata is a big game player. Tevez is world class, Pirlo, Marchisio and Vidal, Chiellini etc. Pretty damn close.

[Billy. 2,742]

Calling for Ivanovics head is popular, you will earn a lot of likes, but you have to think rationally, we don't have a better alternative!

Players we have that are better then Ivaovicn at the club:

OLA AINA kid has great pace, can tackle, And can cross a ball - Better than Branna

Jake Clarke-Salter, now granted he is a CB but he has played on the right before and done a good job - Better than Branna

And of course we have Cesar Azpilicueta best full back at the club.

So there you have it we have IMO 3 players that can do Ivan's job. All we need now is Jose to stop rubbing egos of these players that are playing fucking dreadful and drop them, I mean what they going to do cry into their next 100 thousand quid pay check?? Bless em.

Ivanovic has done nothing in the last 12 months to convince me that he could play for any team in this league.

[Essien19 1,415]

we dont?

are u telling me that after 2 performances from baba you think he is half as bad as iva is currently? or zouma will be as a FB?

and by the way, if we dont have an alternative, whose fault is it?

why did we let luis go? why did we have to sell bertrand prematurely if we were going to let luis go?

why could we pay 21 million pounds for baba who apparently is not good enough to replace the worst player in premier league these days but not add a couple more and get ricardo rodriguez.

a 20 year old right back, played as a left back and OWNED pedro. things are not always linear in life. sometimes u (by u i mean jose) has to take risks. infact dropping iva and playing baba/zouma/hell even aina wont even be a risk right now. but for that, he has to show balls and drop his favourite.

Maybe this time you will get angry, i have seen you go on rampage my friend.

According to Mourinho Baba had fitness problems in the past, but he is adapting to the task, i am totally sure that a 21 year old defender will get more playing time very soon!

I refer to Zouma, he is a bright example in that aspect!

I like Zouma he is maturing quickly, but man, have you seen his passing?! Furthermore he also got owned on the wing, was it against Crystal Palace? Not sure, sorry.

It's arguably up for discussion who would be the better fit, at least that's my point of view.

Sadly we have changed our approach, nowadays the club really likes to sell players, especially when a new expensive guy is coming.

That strategy improves the line-up, but depth gets fucked so bad...

From my understanding Mourinho didn't want to sell most of the players who have left the club, but now it's all about balancing the books, otherwise the attitude in the market would have been different.

Jose already said that he is just the manager, he makes his recommendations but it's up to the board to get shit done!

Jose is an arrogant prick who doesn't take shit from anyone, the phrase: "Jose knows best" does exist not for nothing.

Everton fucked us, they scored and we hadn't an answer for the scum that day, what did Mourinho do? Instead of bringing on Willian who had played badly before, he chose to bring on Kenedy.

He grabbed his balls and rewarded putting up a good show in training.

He trusted John Terry until this season, he wanted to buy John Stones, but the board failed him, nevertheless his home is now on the bench.

That's rutheless!

Loftus-Cheek gets more and more playing time, what about Traore? He chose him instead of Cuadrado who is doing more than okay in Italy now, really interesting.

Players we have that are better then Ivaovicn at the club:

OLA AINA kid has great pace, can tackle, And can cross a ball - Better than Branna

Jake Clarke-Salter, now granted he is a CB but he has played on the right before and done a good job - Better than Branna

And of course we have Cesar Azpilicueta best full back at the club.

So there you have it we have IMO 3 players that can do Ivan's job. All we need now is Jose to stop rubbing egos of these players that are playing fucking dreadful and drop them, I mean what they going to do cry into their next 100 thousand quid pay check?? Bless em.

Ivanovic has done nothing in the last 12 months to convince me that he could play for any team in this league.

Your enumeration about Ainas strengths goes down like clockwork, fairplay to you, but have you seen Aina play in the Premier-League? I don't!

Can the kid deliver under huge pressure? Surely they will target him all the time!

The same can be said about this Salter guy, i remain sceptical.

But i am having a hunch that you have seen both of them play a lot, so i respect your opinion, but sorry mate, i am still unconvinced because of the lack of first league football.

Jose Mourinho made a huge mistake by not using one of them during preseason, that should have been some test!

Generelly Jose should have experimented a lot more, but we don't have a time machine, he has to learn from his mistakes, only the future will tell!

We don't need to talk about most of the passes from Ivanovic, far too much have been utterly woeful, some day they will be costly!

A lot of his crossings are imprecise, nonetheless Remy could have buried that ball against Newcastle United.

His harmonious interaction between his offensive and defensive play has been out of balance for quite some time, but it's not that bad anymore, still not good, that's true!

Yes, some of his positioning have been bad too, lol.

Still, after John Terry is on the bench and Baba not ready yet, maybe soon, but at present i can understand why Jose plays Ivanovic.

I think that the team is really missing leadership, yes, the Serbian dude got fucked a lot, but he has personality which you can't buy and although he is making mistakes,

he is respected and the necessary authority on the field.

The way you speak you have seen a lot more than me, so i give you credit where credit is due.

[didierforever 7,349]

Maybe this time you will get angry, i have seen you go on rampage my friend.

According to Mourinho Baba had fitness problems in the past, but he is adapting to the task, i am totally sure that a 21 year old defender will get more playing time very soon!

I refer to Zouma, he is a bright example in that aspect!

I like Zouma he is maturing quickly, but man, have you seen his passing?! Furthermore he also got owned on the wing, was it against Crystal Palace? Not sure, sorry.

It's arguably up for discussion who would be the better fit, at least that's my point of view.

Sadly we have changed our approach, nowadays the club really likes to sell players, especially when a new expensive guy is coming.

That strategy improves the line-up, but depth gets fucked so bad...

From my understanding Mourinho didn't want to sell most of the players who have left the club, but now it's all about balancing the books, otherwise the attitude in the market would have been different.

Jose already said that he is just the manager, he makes his recommendations but it's up to the board to get shit done!

Jose is an arrogant prick who doesn't take shit from anyone, the phrase: "Jose knows best" does exist not for nothing.

Everton fucked us, they scored and we hadn't an answer for the scum that day, what did Mourinho do? Instead of bringing on Willian who had played badly before, he chose to bring on Kenedy.

He grabbed his balls and rewarded putting up a good show in training.

He trusted John Terry until this season, he wanted to buy John Stones, but the board failed him, nevertheless his home is now on the bench.

That's rutheless!

Loftus-Cheek gets more and more playing time, what about Traore? He chose him instead of Cuadrado who is doing more than okay in Italy now, really interesting.

Your enumeration about Ainas strengths goes down like clockwork, fairplay to you, but have you seen Aina play in the Premier-League? I don't!

Can the kid deliver under huge pressure? Surely they will target him all the time!

The same can be said about this Salter guy, i remain sceptical.

But i am having a hunch that you have seen both of them play a lot, so i respect your opinion, but sorry mate, i am still unconvinced because of the lack of first league football.

Jose Mourinho made a huge mistake by not using one of them during preseason, that should have been some test!

Generelly Jose should have experimented a lot more, but we don't have a time machine, he has to learn from his mistakes, only the future will tell!

We don't need to talk about most of the passes from Ivanovic, far too much have been utterly woeful, some day they will be costly!

A lot of his crossings are imprecise, nonetheless Remy could have buried that ball against Newcastle United.

His harmonious interaction between his offensive and defensive play has been out of balance for quite some time, but it's not that bad anymore, still not good, that's true!

Yes, some of his positioning have been bad too, lol.

Still, after John Terry is on the bench and Baba not ready yet, maybe soon, but at present i can understand why Jose plays Ivanovic.

I think that the team is really missing leadership, yes, the Serbian dude got fucked a lot, but he has personality which you can't buy and although he is making mistakes,

he is respected and the necessary authority on the field.

The way you speak you have seen a lot more than me, so i give you credit where credit is due.

i think u have confused baba and RLC here. i dont remember jose saying anything about baba's fitness. i may be wrong but i honestly cant remember. as for him having fitness issues, i think baba played some 30 league matches or something last year, did not he?

also, i dont remember zouma playing on the wing against palace. he played as a CB. fair point about his passing but have u seen azpi's passing on the left? the guy has to continously switch feet to change the ball from left to right, losing precious seconds and giving defenders the time to get back. not blaming azpi, he is right footed and should be played as one. zouma would hardly be a hindrance to our attack down the left. jose played zouma as a LB against arsenal in CS. so apparently that was something which he has thought of. so why has not he tried that on the pitch. its been 10 games in the season now. not just 3/4 poor games.

the buying and selling u r talking about is for the guys like mata and luiz. luis being sold for 11mil and buying baba for 21 mil was hardly balancing the books or even maintaining the quality. maybe baba will be a gem for later years, but right now we are getting screwed big time. so i cant blame the board for it.

what about cesc and iva? are they training so well that their hopeless performances match after match is being rewarded by start after start?

i am sorry, but what exactly has JT done wrong to be made to be benched?

RLC gets play time against tel aviv and walsall. he can find as good opponents as them in the under-21 league. why was RLC not on even on the bench against newcastle after putting in 2 MOTM performances? hell, he should have been on the pitch starting the game. these useless minutes in cup games against weak oppositions mean nothing when the team is getting beaten and over run every game in the PL.

[Hybrid Angel 2,130]

I don't see the hype around Ancelotti. He shares many managerial characteristics with Mourinho. Lack of rotation, short-term manager, too stubborn to fix the issues, etc. The only major difference between them is their picture in the media. I'm 100% against him coming back.

While I'm still not fully comfortable with Mourinho leaving, if it does become a reality, the manager we should be aiming for should be the opposite of Mourinho and Ancelotti. Someone young, passionate, hungry for success. Someone who has brand new footballing ideas that fit modern Football.

Unai Emery is one to keep an eye on...

[stroey 2,525]

http://www.chelseafc.com/news/latest-news/2015/09/mourinho--a-view-of-two-halves.html

Mourinho: A view of two halves

[Azul 1,615]

Be patient guys, just give him a season then will see whether we failed or succeeded.

[zolayes 14,489]

notice Kalas started at rb for Boro has anyone seen Ake lately he played LB for us a few years ago ,, btw Jack Cork is doing well at Swansea . SIGHS

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Exactly, its quite funny the rewriting of history when it comes to Carlos spell here, the second season was beyond woeful, people cite second place, 71 points won't get top 4 most season's.

Also not to mention the same people wanting Mou sacked calling for Carlo or Klopp, one went on a run for us much worse than this andthe other was bottom of the league for a lot of last season.

Precisely. The 2010/11 season was abysmal. Granted we weren't helped by long-term injuries to Lampard and Drogba's bout of malaria, plus the whole Torres fiasco which destroyed the team's shape and balance, but the football we played was worse than what we've ever seen under Mourinho. And 71 points in the league that season was pathetic. Arguably the worse United side in history and we finished nine points behind them.

The same people who want Mou out now were probably calling for his head in 2007 but then singing his name at Birmingham in the FA Cup in di Matteo's first game, after AVB had been sacked. Football is fickle but the fans are even worse. Let's stick by Jose because he's done a hell of a lot more good for this club than bad.

notice Kalas started at rb for Boro has anyone seen Ake lately he played LB for us a few years ago ,, btw Jack Cork is doing well at Swansea . SIGHS

Playing for Middlesbrough and doing well for Swansea is a far-cry from doing the same at a world-class football club with ambitions of silverware though, Ron.

The way people on here generally over-rate our former youth products amazes me. Shall we re-sign Lalkovic because he forced Begovic into a save from the free-kick leading to Walsall's goal, too?

[coolhead23 1,147]

Kudos! Everything is superbly articulated which is a fact! But,,,,

But than again I may be a Chelsea hater cause I refused to see last season wins and trophies as a justification for mediocre football, unimaginative tactics and everything mentioned above.

This is bloody EPIC!!!!! :tophat: :tophat: :tophat:

Nailed it...

[coolhead23 1,147]

Playing for Middlesbrough and doing well for Swansea is a far-cry from doing the same at a world-class football club with ambitions of silverware though, Ron.

The way people on here generally over-rate our former youth products amazes me. Shall we re-sign Lalkovic because he forced Begovic into a save from the free-kick leading to Walsall's goal, too?

I agree that the quality coming through should be really good for a world class football club like us ... however how do u define quality for the youth? I know lot of us stating they are not ready, hence we send them out on loan. Now despite a player having a decent to good season (for a few) in a different club we still say that they are still not ready. So how are we going to gauge who is ready to be part of the first team, because right now I dont see anyone making it here ...

When we look around in the other teams and we dont see players going out on loans to prove themselves ... it is manager & his backroom staff who needs to make that trust/belief in the players ... United put in quite a few youngsters last season, Arsenal has been doing so, Liverpool has given a run to the 18-19 yrs old ... And if i m not wrong they werent out on loan for so long. Also do you think they were better than what we have purely based on the Youth level games, because i think currently we do a have a better lot.

You get potential players from the youth into the 11 when you take that risk and believe in the talent the kid has... Not everyone will be a success which is a fact but we need to atleast try ... Now are you stating that we dont have even one who we can trust from the academy in all these years (please dont say RLC).

[BlueLion. 21,491]

I agree that the quality coming through should be really good for a world class football club like us ... however how do u define quality for the youth? I know lot of us stating they are not ready, hence we send them out on loan. Now despite a player having a decent to good season (for a few) in a different club we still say that they are still not ready. So how are we going to gauge who is ready to be part of the first team, because right now I dont see anyone making it here ...

When we look around in the other teams and we dont see players going out on loans to prove themselves ... it is manager & his backroom staff who needs to make that trust/belief in the players ... United put in quite a few youngsters last season, Arsenal has been doing so, Liverpool has given a run to the 18-19 yrs old ... And if i m not wrong they werent out on loan for so long. Also do you think they were better than what we have purely based on the Youth level games, because i think currently we do a have a better lot.

You get potential players from the youth into the 11 when you take that risk and believe in the talent the kid has... Not everyone will be a success which is a fact but we need to atleast try ... Now are you stating that we dont have even one who we can trust from the academy in all these years (please dont say RLC).

1) I define youth quality as someone who is able to make an impact at Chelsea. We send kids out elsewhere - but they don't even get games for the likes of Bournemouth (I'm using the Atsu example here). That suggests that, if they can't play for Bournemouth (with all due respect), they don't have much chance of making it at Chelsea. A player is ready to be part of the first-team when they prove they are. We can all criticise Mourinho for his lack of faith in youth products, but the fact he's given playing time to RLC and Kenedy is encouraging. Even then, I don't think either of them are "ready" as they are just kids, and will only become "ready" with experience. However, they have made an impact already by imposing themselves on the manager's plans - so I would classify those players as youth quality.

2) No, I don't think the players at Arsenal like Bellerin, or Joe Gomez at Liverpool, or Wilson or Blackett at United, are any better than our current crop of kids. At teams like Arsenal and Liverpool where mediocrity is an expectation, you can give more game time to youngsters. At Chelsea, it is a lot harder, because we're expected to win games - and you have to admit we're far more likely to win matches with Diego Costa up front rather than Solanke or Bamford. Jose's track record of bringing youngsters through is not as poor as some people make it out to be, but it is poor in comparison to Wenger and Rodgers, but both of them seem comfortable with finishing in fourth or fifth. Jose just can't take the risk here. Everybody praised Ancelotti for supposedly bringing youth players through the ranks, but the only players he gave consistent chances to were Bruma (who after getting annihilated by Heskey in the 3-3 draw with Villa) and McEachran (who we all vastly overrated on the basis of a half-decent first touch and the ability to play one/two-touch passes). Otherwise we went with the tried and trusted old-timers like Cole, Ballack, Belletti. Yes, you can argue Jose could trust in the youth a little more - but can he afford to? With results being this bad already I don't think he's going to have too many opportunities to do so. You can turn around and say that a kid would player better than any of the first team did in the first half against Newcastle, but this is a quality squad that is unfortunately suffering from a crisis of confidence. You don't become bad players overnight, but to start the likes of Traore or Kenedy over Hazard or Oscar would be ridiculous, because despite having poor matches, it only takes one moment of genius (i.e. the Ramires screamer for the 2-1) to get us back into the game.

3) Trust has to be gained. The players need to seize their opportunities, it's as simple as that. Regardless of how few and far between they are, if you want to play for the top clubs you've got to take those chances. How many 18 year olds do Real Madrid play? One or two, yes - when they're 4-0 up and can afford to bring off one of their multiple superstars. We don't have that luxury. I think we have an outstandingly good youth academy and there are one or two diamonds like Charlie Colkett who could go on to become special, special players. But they won't get too many chances at a club that has to win every game, hence why they go out on loan - and if they can't do it in League 1, for instance, then we know it's unlikely they'll be able to do it in a Champions League semi-final in the Camp Nou.

[The Skipper 20,609]

Be patient guys, just give him a season then will see whether we failed or succeeded.

Yup. This. Not enjoying Jose at all but at least give him till the end of the season. Sacking him now solves nothing. I'd rather wait till the end of the season before that even becomes an option, so that we can consider our options properly.

[Billy. 2,742]

Your enumeration about Ainas strengths goes down like clockwork, fairplay to you, but have you seen Aina play in the Premier-League? I don't!

Can the kid deliver under huge pressure? Surely they will target him all the time!

The same can be said about this Salter guy, i remain sceptical.

But i am having a hunch that you have seen both of them play a lot, so i respect your opinion, but sorry mate, i am still unconvinced because of the lack of first league football.

Jose Mourinho made a huge mistake by not using one of them during preseason, that should have been some test!

Generelly Jose should have experimented a lot more, but we don't have a time machine, he has to learn from his mistakes, only the future will tell!

We don't need to talk about most of the passes from Ivanovic, far too much have been utterly woeful, some day they will be costly!

A lot of his crossings are imprecise, nonetheless Remy could have buried that ball against Newcastle United.

His harmonious interaction between his offensive and defensive play has been out of balance for quite some time, but it's not that bad anymore, still not good, that's true!

Yes, some of his positioning have been bad too, lol.

Still, after John Terry is on the bench and Baba not ready yet, maybe soon, but at present i can understand why Jose plays Ivanovic.

I think that the team is really missing leadership, yes, the Serbian dude got fucked a lot, but he has personality which you can't buy and although he is making mistakes,

he is respected and the necessary authority on the field.

The way you speak you have seen a lot more than me, so i give you credit where credit is due.

They havent played first team no, but dont you think that at time likes this is worth a punt?

Also one more full back to look out for is Jay DaSilva he is a leftback and people like Ian Wright (if that means anything) has said he is better than Ashley cole was at 16-17. And IMO the kid is going to be great. Stupid amounts of pace, and for a tiny kid he can put in some great powerful tackles