Oscar

[themightyblue 443]

Bit of a weird debate here considering when Oscar does play centrally he naturally drops deep to pick up the ball and doesn't play like a traditional number 10 mainly in the final third. Would even go as far as saying when he plays centrally we end up taking the shape of a hybrid 433 system. That role as the most advanced midfielder in a 433 would suit him perfectly, it's playing him in the 'pivot' which is debatable

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Not sure why do we have crazy debate about whether Oscar can play in 433 system. To be honest it does not really matter. Let say we play 433 with Oscar rami and mike. Oops that is back to 4231 with Oscar as no 10. The difference between 433 and 4231 is marginal. If you play a player who like to operate between the lines then it is 4231. If he operates deeper than it is 433. The problem is mata on the wing, he is disastrous defensively.

Exactly what I was trying to say but in a better way :tophat:

[Bosnian Blue 2,471]

Real shame he hasn't started the pre-season from day 1 under Mourinho. Fucking Confederations cup.

[wj818 25]

Not sure why do we have crazy debate about whether Oscar can play in 433 system. To be honest it does not really matter. Let say we play 433 with Oscar rami and mike. Oops that is back to 4231 with Oscar as no 10. The difference between 433 and 4231 is marginal. If you play a player who like to operate between the lines then it is 4231. If he operates deeper than it is 433. The problem is mata on the wing, he is disastrous defensively.

I agree with you. So how do we incoperate Oscar and Mata in the first 11? Any suggestions, because the way I see it mata has to adapt himself to play on the wings, if we want oscar to reach his full potential he has to play a more central role.

Let's take a formation for an example:

Hazard-ST- Mata

Oscar

De rossi- Ramires

Cole-Iva-Luiz-Azpi

Knowing mata, we should probably let him drift inwards and to cover for him, we can have Ramires and Azpi in the flanks covering him.

This is the only way I see we can incoperate both Oscar and Mata and get the best out of them. What do you think? U have any alternative in your mind?

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

I agree with you. So how do we incoperate Oscar and Mata in the first 11? Any suggestions, because the way I see it mata has to adapt himself to play on the wings, if we want oscar to reach his full potential he has to play a more central role.

Let's take a formation for an example:

Hazard-ST- Mata

Oscar

De rossi- Ramires

Cole-Iva-Luiz-Azpi

Knowing mata, we should probably let him drift inwards and to cover for him, we can have Ramires and Azpi in the flanks covering him.

This is the only way I see we can incoperate both Oscar and Mata and get the best out of them. What do you think? U have any alternative in your mind?

This is a fundamental problem. There is no system where Oscar, Mata, and Hazard will be able to be at their best. Mata, to be effective, needs to play in the middle. Even when plays on the left, he drifts into the middle. Hazard plays more like a winger but even he likes to cut into the centre. Oscar has excellent potential but right now he is clearly the the third best of the aforementioned three and for me, De-emphasizing your best player because you think Oscar has better potential just makes no sense to me.

[wj818 25]

This is a fundamental problem. There is no system where Oscar, Mata, and Hazard will be able to be at their best. Mata, to be effective, needs to play in the middle. Even when plays on the left, he drifts into the middle. Hazard plays more like a winger but even he likes to cut into the centre. Oscar has excellent potential but right now he is clearly the the third best of the aforementioned three and for me, De-emphasizing your best player because you think Oscar has better potential just makes no sense to me.

Yeah, Thts the bitter truth, I guess. We can leave out Harzard because I think he will own the right side. The problem is Oscar and Mata. Maybe the solution for now is rotating them, eventhough we may not like it.

One formation tht wil suit them both IMO is

'the diamond'

St-Mata

-Oscar-

de bruyne-Ramires

-De Rossi-

Cole-luiz-Iva-Azpi

I knw this wil never happen but, just to experiment on incoperating Those two.

Do you think this team is balanced and can work?

[communicate 2,703]

I agree with you. So how do we incoperate Oscar and Mata in the first 11? Any suggestions, because the way I see it mata has to adapt himself to play on the wings, if we want oscar to reach his full potential he has to play a more central role.

Let's take a formation for an example:

Hazard-ST- Mata

Oscar

De rossi- Ramires

Cole-Iva-Luiz-Azpi

Knowing mata, we should probably let him drift inwards and to cover for him, we can have Ramires and Azpi in the flanks covering him.

This is the only way I see we can incoperate both Oscar and Mata and get the best out of them. What do you think? U have any alternative in your mind?

Like what toronto said, there is not a best formation to get the best of our mazacar. Your formation is probably the best formation but at the same time it forces mata to do more defensively and it reduces his influence on the game by moving him to the wing.

He also made a very good point, right now mata is probably as good as anybody as no 10. In term of playmaking he is just damn good,tactically oscar is superb but as a playmaker Mata is better.

PS: We are going to have the same problem with Schurle and Hazard, because both of them at their best as left winger. Not sure why we don't go for Navas instead of schurle

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

Bit of a weird debate here considering when Oscar does play centrally he naturally drops deep to pick up the ball and doesn't play like a traditional number 10 mainly in the final third. Would even go as far as saying when he plays centrally we end up taking the shape of a hybrid 433 system. That role as the most advanced midfielder in a 433 would suit him perfectly, it's playing him in the 'pivot' which is debatable

4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 is not a minor difference. 4-2-3-1 you have two defensive mids who both are responsible for defending their zone depending on where the ball is and holding and covering the back 4 is inherent in both roles. Additionally, the 3 attacking mids are asked to do a lot more defensively as they play deeper than they would in a 4-3-3. 4-3-3, there is only one holder who is responsible for covering the back 4 whereas the other two centre-mids, one is a ball-winner/box-to-box player and the other oftentimes a more attacking player.

You may move around a few players in a 4-3-3 and turn it into a 4-2-3-1 but the actual roles of the players are considerably different. The good thing about our team is that we can switch between both formations without making a substitution.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

Not sure why do we have crazy debate about whether Oscar can play in 433 system. To be honest it does not really matter. Let say we play 433 with Oscar rami and mike. Oops that is back to 4231 with Oscar as no 10. The difference between 433 and 4231 is marginal. If you play a player who like to operate between the lines then it is 4231. If he operates deeper than it is 433. The problem is mata on the wing, he is disastrous defensively.

what are you talking about ? When Oscar plays in a 4-3-3 he isn't going to play like a 10. He's going to play like a Centre midfielder in a 3 man midfield. When you change your shape you change the individual player instructions so it fits the system you play.

Also "The difference between the 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 is marginal". Really, maybe on paper but on the field it's a big difference.

[Fulham Broadway 16,410]

I've been reading this thread for the past couple of days, from page one (plan to do the same with Eden's) and that's one of the most accurate comments I've read here.

Benitez didn't value Oscar and his amazing skills enough, played him badly, frustrated him (I read some comment about him moaning about Benitez, had no idea it happened, but it doesn't surprise me) and consequently deterred the progress he'd started to do under RDM. As if I didn't have enough reasons to deeply dislike Benitez.

Watch the boy become one of our very best, if not the best, under Mourinho's management.

And I've read so many posts begging him to be played a DLP or in the pivot. I do hope Mou has a different plan (I suspect he does). The guy is perfect as a AM who tackles and intercepts more balls than the other 3 most advanced players we have. That's what makes him remarkable as a #10, not what would potentially make him a great #8 or #6. Why turn him into something he's not fit to just because as an attacking midfielder he excels in tackling and intercepting? That kind of reasoning will never make sense in my head! You take the guy from the position he shines not only for the great talent and intelligence he has, but also because he added defensive skills to his portfolio and that makes him a more complete AM than Mata and Hazard, and because of that move him to the pivot?

So I hope we play him mostly as a CAM and Eden as LW and Mata wherever and if Schurrle is as good as people make him to be, then I can see Oscar rotating with Mata and Shirley himself, until he - Oscar - is the one they're rotating with, which I have no doubt will happen.

He isn't our best player imo (neither is Mata for that matter) and he isn't my favorite player, but he has potential to be both things.

now I'll continue to read as I'm still on page 91

Well thank you -and apologies for late reply. He is still young but was so much better utilised in the national team than under tubby. I reckon he could have a blinder of a season this year, just as Ramires did the second time - especially under Mourinhos stewardship.

Hope you managed to read the thread without losing the will to live....

:blue scalf:

[Barbara 15,149]

Well thank you -and apologies for late reply. He is still young but was so much better utilised in the national team than under tubby. I reckon he could have a blinder of a season this year, just as Ramires did the second time - especially under Mourinhos stewardship.

Hope you managed to read the thread without losing the will to live....

:blue scalf:

it was much easier to read than Eden's one. During some points reading Eden's thread I thought I'd never be back in the forum again, hahahahaha

Things got crazy there, but I'll get used to how serious and sometimes crazy things get here during the season. Wish me luck though as I'm used to the coll off-season environment

better late than never (kidding, you didn't need to answer at all, but I'm still glad you took the time to do so)

[Duppy Conqueror 1,451]

Switch the 2-3 midfield to a 3-2. Oscar playing in the 3 but with the freedom to float between the two and therefore switching the formation depending on the in game situation.

That's how you can play Mata,Hazard and Oscar in the same line up.

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

it was much easier to read than Eden's one. During some points reading Eden's thread I thought I'd never be back in the forum again, hahahahaha

Things got crazy there, but I'll get used to how serious and sometimes crazy things get here during the season. Wish me luck though as I'm used to the coll off-season environment

better late than never (kidding, you didn't need to answer at all, but I'm still glad you took the time to do so)

If you thought Eden's thread was crazy, you better not get anywhere near Mikel, Luiz and KDB.

[Barbara 15,149]

Switch the 2-3 midfield to a 3-2. Oscar playing in the 3 but with the freedom to float between the two and therefore switching the formation depending on the in game situation.

That's how you can play Mata,Hazard and Oscar in the same line up.

that's what I'm expecting or something where he'll be like this

(two out of Ramires, Mikel, Lampard, DDR)

.......................Oscar.........................

André............Mata.............Hazard

or

(two out of Ramires, Mikel, Lampard, DDR)

.......................Oscar..........................

Mata...................................Hazard

...................Lukaku.......................

If you thought Eden's thread was crazy, you better not get anywhere near Mikel, Luiz and KDB.

are you serious it gets worse than that?

[Styles 9,790]

Mourinho: "We will play 4-2-3-1 in the first game, my favourite system, though sometimes I change the triangle and play with one in front of the defenders and two players up," Mourinho said. "Other times I play with double midfielders and a No10. This is a team where we have not one or two but three or four players who like very much to be a No10: [Kevin] De Bruyne likes it, Oscar likes it, Mata likes it, [Eden] Hazard likes it. It is a natural system for all these players to play.

"But in another match I could change it. If we are losing, we might need to have two pure strikers. It is something we will work on because I would like to have this capacity to have it ready to play, independent of the players we have. Naturally, we will have four at the back and in my team, the attackers are attackers. Some guys say we play 4-2-3-1, blah blah blah blah, and sometimes the attackers have a defensive job so it is more like 4-5-1. But it is not 4-5-1, it is 4-3-3.

"With Mata, I need to get to know him better. I like sometimes to play with what I call 'wingers with the wrong foot' – right-footed men on the left and left-footed men on the right. He is the only left-footed player we have when we want to play with a winger on the right side, but the competition is hard. We will have Schurrle, De Bruyne, Mata, Oscar, Hazard and Moses for these three positions and so we have many more options than Chelsea had in the last year. These are crucial positions for me. I like these players to play with high intensity so to have five players for three positions is, I think, brilliant for me. It's fantastic."

Interesting. From those comments I believe Oscar will end up centrally with Mata playing right.

Mata/Moses - Oscar/KDB - Hazard/Schurrle

Striker

The bold is very, very important especially after the madness of last season. There will be genuine competition for places, rotation, depth, multifunctional players etc.This is how it should be.

[Barbara 15,149]

Interesting. From those comments I believe Oscar will end up centrally with Mata playing right.

Mata/Moses - Oscar/KDB - Hazard/Schurrle

Striker

The bold is very, very important especially after the madness of last season. There will be genuine competition for places, rotation, depth, multifunctional players etc.This is how it should be.

so I guess I was right in my post just before this:

that's what I'm expecting or something where he'll be like this

(two out of Ramires, Mikel, Lampard, DDR)

.......................Oscar.........................

André............Mata.............Hazard

or

(two out of Ramires, Mikel, Lampard, DDR)

.......................Oscar..........................

Mata...................................Hazard

...................Lukaku.......................

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Keep in mind that Jose has not seen Mata yet. He might change his mind when he does.

[Barbara 15,149]

OMG he was so blond when a kid!