Oscar

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

I don't get it. What's your point? Are you saying that Arteta and Pirlo do have defensive ability? Because Pirlo certainly doesn't. Arteta defends much better than Oscar does and in any situation I don't want us to be modeling our midfield after Arsenal that's for sure.

The reason why Pirlo works in that Juve midfield is that they play with wing backs that always track back and give them numerical advantage in midfield. Similarly the reason why Lamps worked well in a 4-3-3 is because we had wingers with excellent defensive work rate like Robben, Duff, Malouda, Kalou..etc (But still Frank is a much better defensively and physically than Oscar).

So if you want to play Oscar in a 4-3-3, you will basically need on the wings people other than Harzard and Mata.

No his point was that Oscar marked both of them completely out of the game when we played juve and arsenal.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

No, that doesn't make sense to me. I don't know why it's so hard for you to see that Oscar does have the capabilities of playing as the most forward midfielder in the 4-3-3. I'm not even advocating that we should play 4-3-3, all I'm saying is that it's easy to see how he can play there.

1) Oscar is naturally a tempo dictator - he's naturally everywhere. When Oscar plays number 10 you will often find that he's comes very deep to collect the ball - which automatically turns the formation into a 4-3-3 anyway. He's not always in and around the final third like Mata - he's everywhere on the pitch like I said before - I'm sure you remember Barbara's article on it; the heat graph shows that. He has the tactical ability to discipline himself to maintain that 4-3-3 shape.

2) Oscar is a very well rounded player and to say he doesn't have the defensive capabilities makes me wonder if you've actually been watching him this season. Oscar has great work rate, a great tactical nous, and actually has a decent tackle on him, which is evident by the fact that he made the second most tackles in our team last season. You're acting as if he'd be the main defender in the 4-3-3 formation when that simply isn't true - especially not if he has the likes of Ramires and De Rossi (for example) partnering him in midfield.

I can't believe you are forgetting his performances against Juventus and Arsenal where he completely shut down Pirlo and Arteta. If that doesn't scream "Oscar has good defensive capabilities" to you then nothing will.

3) Playing Oscar as the most forward player in the 4-3-3 gives us great tactical flexibility, because as you said before, Oscar can be further deployed forward to change the formation into our 4-2-3-1 anytime during the game when we do need to get more men forward.

It really isn't that hard to envisage Oscar as the furthest forward player in a 4-3-3. He clearly has the capabilities to do so, I even think he has the capabilities and qualities to play in the -2- in a 4-2-3-1, and many people have wondered if he will be tried there - so I don't understand how anyone can find it so hard to imagine Oscar in a 4-3-3. It isn't.

I've already answered all those points, stating them again we'd just be going in circles. No offense mate, but your main argument seems to be "Oscar can play in 4-3-3 because I believe he can". Well I can't see it. I've never seen him play there and the only time he's played in central midfield with us he was terrible. Ultimately I think if you want to Oscar in 4-3-3 you will need to wingers with better defensive work-rate to balance out the team or you will be back to the main problem we had this season of two isolated players in central midfield being out numbered every time.

Unlike hazard or mata, Oscar is a natural no. 10 much like zidane, Deco, scholes, ballack, Totti e.t.c. therefore he will do well both in a 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 formations which have provisions for the no. 10 position/role. Where defensive ability really comes into play is in the CM position in a 4-4-2 formation but like scholes and ballack even oscar has the qualities for this and with experience and discipline will do very well in this position too, that is if such situation arises.

I agree to some extent (Can you really say Oscar is similar to Ballack, Scholes and Totti phisically and interms of defensive ability), but his ability to play in 4-3-3 and how well it works depends on who is playing next to him in the formation. Oscar in 4-3-3 with Mata and Hazard on the wings will result in the same mess we had this season..

[CHOULO19 24,332]

No his point was that Oscar marked both of them completely out of the game when we played juve and arsenal.

Marking is one thing and general defensive ability is another. We know he has the work rate to chase around a player all game, but can he tackle? Block channels and passing angles? Does he have the defensive discipline to contain the opposition and not commit to silly challenges? Can he get physical with opposition central midfielders and fight for the ball?

I have my doubts..

[bleed_blue 136]

No his point was that Oscar marked both of them completely out of the game when we played juve and arsenal.

Thank you, that is exactly what I meant. And any sane person will understand that but I guess we all know that ship has long sailed for Choulo19

Marking is one thing and general defensive ability is another. We know he has the work rate to chase around a player all game, but can he tackle? Block channels and passing angles? Does he have the defensive discipline to contain the opposition and not commit to silly challenges? Can he get physical with opposition central midfielders and fight for the ball?

I have my doubts..

Have you been living under a rock for the past one year?

Oscar made more tackles (86 in 24 starts and 10 sub appearances) than all of Chelsea's players except Ramires in PL last season.

The defensive rock that you worship, John Obi Mikel made 51 tackles in 19 starts and 3 sub appearances.

Oscar committed 33 fouls in these 34 PL appearances while Mikel committed 35 fouls in 22 appearances.

If you dont watch football, you dont have to comment about it and spread your ignorant views. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and asking you to type random conjectures here.

[madalista 30]

I don't see why post have to be personal and insulting. Can't we just all get along and discuss football in a mature manner.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Thank you, that is exactly what I meant. And any sane person will understand that but I guess we all know that ship has long sailed for Choulo19

Have you been living under a rock for the past one year?

Oscar made more tackles (86 in 24 starts and 10 sub appearances) than all of Chelsea's players except Ramires in PL last season.

The defensive rock that you worship, John Obi Mikel made 51 tackles in 19 starts and 3 sub appearances.

Oscar committed 33 fouls in these 34 PL appearances while Mikel committed 35 fouls in 22 appearances.

If you dont watch football, you dont have to comment about it and spread your ignorant views. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and asking you to type random conjectures here.

How about for starters you try to discuss with a bit more respect? I managed to put my point across without insults, sarcasm, or even trying to discredit your opinion by saying you don't know/watch football. How about you try something similar for once?

Regarding the point you made, like any football stat, it does not tell the whole the story. I've also seen Oscar bullied off the ball and shrugged off by opposition players countless times this season. He's also aggressive in defending and can't defend 'tactically' meaning containing the opposition and forcing them to certain areas while blocking passing angles.

I'll say it again: Playing Oscar in 4-3-3, imo, defeats the whole purpose of playing 4-3-3 because you'll be back the issues we had this year with two isolated players in central midfield being outnumbered by opposition.

[bleed_blue 136]

How about for starters you try to discuss with a bit more respect? I managed to put my point across without insults, sarcasm, or even trying to discredit your opinion by saying you don't know/watch football. How about you try something similar for once?

Regarding the point you made, like any football stat, it does not tell the whole the story. I've also seen Oscar bullied off the ball and shrugged off by opposition players countless times this season. He's also aggressive in defending and can't defend 'tactically' meaning containing the opposition and forcing them to certain areas while blocking passing angles.

I'll say it again: Playing Oscar in 4-3-3, imo, defeats the whole purpose of playing 4-3-3 because you'll be back the issues we had this year with two isolated players in central midfield being outnumbered by opposition.

that tactically defend bit is a hogwash.

And you continue to prove you did not watch Chelsea play last season.

How about you write at least one line which makes a semblance of logic for once? You know something that is slightly closer to reality. Try

[CHOULO19 24,332]

that tactically defend bit is a hogwash.

And you continue to prove you did not watch Chelsea play last season.

How about you write at least one line which makes a semblance of logic for once? You know something that is slightly closer to reality. Try

Well if my opinion is that illogical, you should be able to disprove it without having to resort to insults and attacks, don't you think?

[robsblubot 3,223]

All these different opinions and I can't seem to disagree much with any of them. Guys, Oscar is a kid! He's 21 right now and will turn 22 in September. Chelsea don't know what type of player Oscar will become (hope Mourinho can provide the right insight), Scolari doesn't know either. I reckon even Oscar doesn't know what type of player he will be when he grows up.

I for one find it exciting that we've got players who are so young and with so much potential. Just remember he is a starter for Brazil at 21, and historically, that means a lot even when questioning the current generation of Brazilian footballers. Only very special players managed that. I also find it exciting he shows signs of aptitude in different aspects of the game. IMO he is shaping up as a very rounded player, and will bulk up a bit naturally.

I am surprised by his contribution last season, considering it was his first season in England.

[TrippingStep 336]

Marking is one thing and general defensive ability is another. We know he has the work rate to chase around a player all game, but can he tackle? Block channels and passing angles? Does he have the defensive discipline to contain the opposition and not commit to silly challenges? Can he get physical with opposition central midfielders and fight for the ball?

I have my doubts..

Do you understand that it can be teached and that Oscar has the ability to learn that.

And I don't understand why you say that Hazard could not be played on the wing in a 4-3-3.

Hazard is not great at winning the ball, but is not bad on cutting some passing angles, channeling the opponent to a zone where we can trap zone and counter-attack them after a team-mate has won the ball.

And it can be more effective with tree man midfield moving left and right, to cut the spaces.

In a 4-3-3, it's the front three who must cut the passing angles, the two more advanced players in midfield are there to press, help in a trapping zone, covering a lot of meters in width, moving from left to right, one helping in a side, one centrally, the other winger coming back in the midfield.

The dm moving to fix holes in the defence or just in front.

[meetdoscar 335]

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[meetdoscar 335]

I've already answered all those points, stating them again we'd just be going in circles. No offense mate, but your main argument seems to be "Oscar can play in 4-3-3 because I believe he can". Well I can't see it. I've never seen him play there and the only time he's played in central midfield with us he was terrible. Ultimately I think if you want to Oscar in 4-3-3 you will need to wingers with better defensive work-rate to balance out the team or you will be back to the main problem we had this season of two isolated players in central midfield being out numbered every time.

I agree to some extent (Can you really say Oscar is similar to Ballack, Scholes and Totti phisically and interms of defensive ability), but his ability to play in 4-3-3 and how well it works depends on who is playing next to him in the formation. Oscar in 4-3-3 with Mata and Hazard on the wings will result in the same mess we had this season..

You have been told several times oscar's statistics in terms of tackles and fouls. If dat doesn't convince you dat he is defensively sound then may be ill upload a picture of some of his tackles for you. Because he can make a tackle it makes him similar to scholes, ballack. Mata and sturridge(hazard) on the wings resulted in a mess in a 4-3-3 already before oscar came in so it might be a mess just about whoever plays there.

Lastly oscar played in some games in a 4-3-3 in olympics along with romulo and sandro so he has played there before.

[bleed_blue 136]

Well if my opinion is that illogical, you should be able to disprove it without having to resort to insults and attacks, don't you think?

Your "opinion" has been disproven time and time again by others n myself.

[lucio 5,395]

oscar has proved for brazil he is good enough defensivley to play in a 4-3-3. he presses well , great workrate , can win tackles. (of course the other 2 will be better at defending eg. ramires and mikel /de rossi or gustavo , paulinho ect)

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

Marking is one thing and general defensive ability is another. We know he has the work rate to chase around a player all game, but can he tackle? Block channels and passing angles? Does he have the defensive discipline to contain the opposition and not commit to silly challenges? Can he get physical with opposition central midfielders and fight for the ball?

I have my doubts..

Can he tackle? Yes of course he can, he's one of the best tacklers on our team and undoubtedly the best in the world in his position.

Does he have the discipline? Yes, marking out Pirlo and Arteta are prime examples of instances where he was asked to do a job and not run around chase the ball.

Can he get physical? Yeah def does look like it, makes more than enough tackles and commits his fair share of fouls too.

[wj818 25]

There's no doubt tht Oscar can play as an Amf in 4-3-3. Didn't he play tht sorta role in The Confed cup?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Well I still have my doubts about his ability to play in a 4-3-3, tbh. And I don't think those doubts will go away until I actually see him playing there for us.

Your "opinion" has been disproven time and time again by others n myself.

I have absolutely no problem with that. Just please try to discuss in a more civilized manner, alright?

[communicate 2,703]

Not sure why do we have crazy debate about whether Oscar can play in 433 system. To be honest it does not really matter. Let say we play 433 with Oscar rami and mike. Oops that is back to 4231 with Oscar as no 10. The difference between 433 and 4231 is marginal. If you play a player who like to operate between the lines then it is 4231. If he operates deeper than it is 433. The problem is mata on the wing, he is disastrous defensively.