Juan Mata

[bushman 2,043]

Sorry to disappoint some of you here, but Mata will not be sold now.

He will play in the next two games. Even BA will get his chance. Jose needs to rest some of his players for Citeh. Chelsea must not drop points against Citeh. It will be the most important game for the PL title, I feel.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

This thread is really boring and predictable now

Pro mata (which i belong to btw) will argue that mata is our most creative player and should be getting more game time etc etc which is then always countered with the argument that he doesn't fit into jose's system and Oscar deserves to be ahead in the pecking order on the basis of his tactical superiority. wash rinse and repeat.

If he has any sense and knows what's best for his own career then he would push really hard for a transfer out of the club.

I don't think anyone should be labelling themselves "pro-Mata" or "pro-Oscar".

However, if we are desperate to categorise, stick me in the "pro-Chelsea" group, because it is pretty clear to me that the inclusion of Oscar and Willian, based on their form, performances and their defensive capacity, is an absolutely correct one by José for the betterment of the team.

[The Skipper 20,609]

One thing I would like to see Mourinho try is Mata at number 10 with Willian and Hazard out wide, and with a solid pivot like Matic and Mikel behind them. I think that would be interesting to see but doubt it will ever happen.

Mata isn't as great as anyone else in his defensive responsibilities but he isn't that much of a liability.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Arsenal are starting Ozil who's even worse than Mata and they're having their best League season in years to go along with the best defensive record in the League.

I mean even while Oscar was out injured he was still playing out wide. I can't remember the last time he was played in his preferred position. It's bad management, simply don't freeze out a fan favourite and the best player in the team out like that and any other manager would have been under fire for it.

As long as we don't sell him to any other club in the League where he will continue to haunt us until he retires I'm fine with him leaving. The way he's been treated is a disgrace.

[Korea 734]

Arsenal are starting Ozil who's even worse than Mata and they're having their best League season in years to go along with the best defensive record in the League.

I mean even while Oscar was out injured he was still playing out wide. I can't remember the last time he was played in his preferred position. It's bad management, simply don't freeze out a fan favourite and the best player in the team out like that and any other manager would have been under fire for it.

As long as we don't sell him to any other club in the League where he will continue to haunt us until he retires I'm fine with him leaving. The way he's been treated is a disgrace.

Ozil plays wide a lot of games and they have Rosicky in the middle...

[Blue Armour 4,436]

I went as far as stating I didn't think Jose would punish him for the bratty behavior. I do wonder how much of this is just a coincidence and how much it's José just showing him his place. As I said back then, in the never end saga of his behavior, I don't think Mourinho would have blasted him to the media. I still can't say (though I tend to think that way) he was more frustrated on Mourinho than on himself. But there had been chances for him to get even a few minutes ever since (not today though given the scoreline and ManUtd scoring) and I wonder why he wasn't given especially because in many matches before the incident he's been given some odd minutes. He couldn't get minutes against Derby for God's sake!!!

Just so we're clear (I mean everyone else, not you), I'm not saying Mourinho is punishing him, I'm saying it looks an awful lot like it, but I can't say for sure, ofc.

Also the same old with the stats... He's had 11 starts plus a few subs (that only in EPL, without considering the cups). That's more than enough matches for him to give us something and he did very, very, very little. Don't give me the right wing crap, first because it's no excuse for him to give us even the minimum, second, he's had many cameos (some matches even stayed more in the center than in the wing) in the middle position. The positioning detracts his performances, but it shouldn't be that much. Or are you people trying to say that Mata is so limited, but so limited, that unless he's a few yards to the left he can't provide an assist or score a goal?

He'll never be able to give us as many goals and assists in the right wing, in this kind of system (especially when he isn't given plenty of freedom to do whatever he wants and no tactical responsibility), but he should be more than capable of giving us more than 2 goals and 1 assist. So I see a difference of not repeating last season's results because of the new system and positioning, but I can't justify only 3 goals created by his feet in 15+ matches on that. For me that's called bad form.

It should have been a middle ground here, such as he's in a position where he doesn't produce as much, but still produces enough. He hasn't produced enough.

Yes, we can't say for sure but Mata's prolonged absence from the team reminds me of the time this season when Luiz couldn't get any game time after his defensive blunder in one match (can't remember against which team).

But eventually Luiz did find his way back into Mourinho's plans, so I believe Mata will, although it could be longer (depending on squad fitness).

The flip-side is you have to remember players like Andre Schurrle have also not featured as much. In fact, Jose whenever possible, likes to keep the same back four and the same attacking midfielders. The only real changes happen in CM (depending on fitness/who's available) and ST (depending on the opposition, Torres for space and Eto'o against tight defences).

[manpe 10,861]

It's bad management, simply don't freeze out a fan favourite and the best player in the team out like that and any other manager would have been under fire for it.

If the manager bowed to fan pressure every single time, well... Mourinho may be frustrating at times (Real fans will agree), but at least he's not being populistic in his choices. For the past two or three years we've been very vulnerable defensively, if excluding Mata contributes to fixing that, I will accept it with a heavy heart. I'm still hoping though that they will find a way somehow, but if they don't and we end up swimming in titles, I won't even reflect on it more than I have to.

[Pizy 18,877]

One thing I would like to see Mourinho try is Mata at number 10 with Willian and Hazard out wide, and with a solid pivot like Matic and Mikel behind them. I think that would be interesting to see but doubt it will ever happen.

Mata isn't as great as anyone else in his defensive responsibilities but he isn't that much of a liability.

Very good point and what I'm thinking as well.

Now that our CM isn't tissue paper thin we can afford to play Mata in his most effective #10 role without him having to worry as much about tracking back.

I REALLY want both Mata and Jose to silence the critics and see Mata get a run of games at #10 to get his form back. Think Juan can be a massive player for us in this half of the season and may be the ace up our sleeve. He doesn't have the wear and tear of our other players and will be desperate to do well in a World Cup year.

I miss our little magician so much!

[The only place to be 11,313]

I mean even while Oscar was out injured he was still playing out wide. I can't remember the last time he was played in his preferred position. It's bad management, simply don't freeze out a fan favourite and the best player in the team out like that and any other manager would have been under fire for it.

You're right. We do have a great bunch of supporters who aren't going to bitch and moan simply because a player isn't playing because the manager's system (which has seen us do pretty fucking well) doesn't suit him at the present time.

That's one of the reasons I love this club. The vast, vast, vast majority are sensible folk who see that the club's needs take precedence over their favourite player playing (not just playing, but playing in the exact position he wants and in the exact system he wants) and don't whinge about him being treated disgracefully.

Very good point and what I'm thinking as well.

Now that our CM isn't tissue paper thin we can afford to play Mata in his most effective #10 role without him having to worry as much about tracking back.

I REALLY want both Mata and Jose to silence the critics and see Mata get a run of games at #10 to get his form back. Think Juan can be a massive player for us in this half of the season and may be the ace up our sleeve. He doesn't have the wear and tear of our other players and will be desperate to do well in a World Cup year.

I miss our little magician so much!

What critics? We're playing well and most people couldn't give a fuck about Mata playing or not and do you know why?? Because Mourinho ALREADY silenced the critics.

I like the idea that now we're doing well and have this system in place that we should go back to a type of football that gives Mata complete freedom from pressing. He deserves games but I don't see why out of the 20-odd players in the squad and 50 odd players at the club and even the hundred (s?) of young players associated with this club, one player should be exempt from certain things.

And here comes the blasphemy....there are maybe 5 players in the world that you build systems around, if that. Mata ain't one of them.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Arsenal are starting Ozil who's even worse than Mata and they're having their best League season in years to go along with the best defensive record in the League.

I mean even while Oscar was out injured he was still playing out wide. I can't remember the last time he was played in his preferred position. It's bad management, simply don't freeze out a fan favourite and the best player in the team out like that and any other manager would have been under fire for it.

As long as we don't sell him to any other club in the League where he will continue to haunt us until he retires I'm fine with him leaving. The way he's been treated is a disgrace.

What? What AVB did to Anelka and Alex is disgraceful treatment. José is being fair - he has told Mata what he has to do to win his place back; which is to contribute more defensively. Whenever he's played, he's put in less of a shift than even Hazard or Schurrle have, let alone contribute less than Oscar or Willian have in recent weeks. He's had ample opportunities to impress, and for me, he's playing at about 40% of the capacity he did last season when he was given all the freedom and centrality of Rafa's system. Mourinho is doing the right thing, for my money. He's forgotten more about football than I'll ever know, so I'll go with his judgement on the matter.

[Pizy 18,877]

What? What AVB did to Anelka and Alex is disgraceful treatment. José is being fair - he has told Mata what he has to do to win his place back; which is to contribute more defensively. Whenever he's played, he's put in less of a shift than even Hazard or Schurrle have, let alone contribute less than Oscar or Willian have in recent weeks. He's had ample opportunities to impress, and for me, he's playing at about 40% of the capacity he did last season when he was given all the freedom and centrality of Rafa's system. Mourinho is doing the right thing, for my money. He's forgotten more about football than I'll ever know, so I'll go with his judgement on the matter.

I agree that he's made the right choice in Oscar, but you can't really blame Mata for looking as poor as he has this season. Even a top, top class player needs to be playing regularly to be at their best. Mata can't be his world class self if he gets 50 minutes every 3rd match.

I just wish there were some way to have him on the pitch along with Oscar. It just makes me sad reminiscing about how insanely incredible he's been for us and now seeing him not get a look in.

Like I said earlier, I hope he has a big player for us going forward in some capacity.

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

One thing I would like to see Mourinho try is Mata at number 10 with Willian and Hazard out wide, and with a solid pivot like Matic and Mikel behind them. I think that would be interesting to see but doubt it will ever happen.

Mata isn't as great as anyone else in his defensive responsibilities but he isn't that much of a liability.

The problem is Mou's defensive philosophy is to press high through the centre and force the ball to the flanks and win the ball on the wings. Pressing high through the middle is crucial, which is why whenever he does start Mata it's on the wings to hide him as much as he can.

[Jase 43,479]

The problem is Mou's defensive philosophy is to press high through the centre and force the ball to the flanks and win the ball on the wings. Pressing high through the middle is crucial, which is why whenever he does start Mata it's on the wings to hide him as much as he can.

But when we do that, another problem appears. He's not as effective out wide as he is in the No.10 role and when that happens, our threat from his side probably drops 25-50%.

[The Chels 2,502]

I don't think anyone should be labelling themselves "pro-Mata" or "pro-Oscar".

However, if we are desperate to categorise, stick me in the "pro-Chelsea" group, because it is pretty clear to me that the inclusion of Oscar and Willian, based on their form, performances and their defensive capacity, is an absolutely correct one by José for the betterment of the team.

I don't think it's that easy to state Jose's decision on this has been 'absolutely correct'. You can only say that if you know how the alternative situation would have panned out with Mata being involved in all the games he hasn't been, and obviously that is impossible.

José is being fair - he has told Mata what he has to do to win his place back; which is to contribute more defensively.

I remember reading from both Mata and De Bruyne that Mourinho had not told them what they were doing wrong personally, with Mata saying something along the lines of 'he doesn't need to...' Surely trying to help them directly instead of almost doing so through the media would be a better option and not make the players feel targeted and without hope of getting into the team? Obviously the manager doesn't need to justify to every player why he is or isn't playing them, but when Mata is clearly our most creative and technical AM (not to mention the only one who can properly take FKs and corners!) and has been for the last 2 years it seems strange that Mourinho wouldn't advise him personally, particularly because he thinks he will be an 'important' player for us; I believe he said something similar about De Bruyne around the Christmas period, and we all know how that one turned out...

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

But when we do that, another problem appears. He's not as effective out wide as he is in the No.10 role and when that happens, our threat from his side probably drops 25-50%.

He may not be as effective but it's Chelsea FC and not Mata FC. If he wants to play either learn to press like Oscar, which will never happen because Mata is limited physically, or do your best to influence the match from the wings. Mou isn't going to change his defensive philosophy to suit Mata, especially since it seems to working with the entire team except Mata. Plus he's played on the wings for us a lot when he first came here and has been very good.

Of course he won't get goals and assists like last year but as long as he's able to help the team win, that's what he and we all want. I don't care if he gets stats or not, as long as he plays well and we win and this goes for any player.