Juan Mata

[sutro 1,026]

willian is already in the 3 right now!!! what is oscar gets injured? do u want to sell mata too when we are already selling kdb...

According to a belgian newspaper its mata or kdb, only 1can leave, thats why wolfsburg is in a hurry to get the kdb deal done

[didierforever 7,349]

Willian would play CAM, with eden and Schurrle on the wings...

If anything, Ive seen lampard play more in the Cam role this season than Mata...

we have 3 DMs in lamps, mikel and rambo. 2 of them are inconsistent (mikel, lamps). one of them SHOULD not be playing more than 1 match in a week,

if we sell mata right now (with kdb surely leaving), we will be having 4 AMs down from 6 and will be losing our most potent weapon - strength in depth. how many PL matches have our AMs influenced after coming from the bench. also after getting an injury to even one of those 4 AMs we will be having 3 AMs with no one to influence the game off the bench. so please think what is best for the team. how is selling mata going to better chelsea. can u give me a couple of pointers??

[Stingray 9,441]

Fed up of this cyclical argument. If Mata isn't angry with Mourinho, who is he berating? Himself? Not likely.

How can you tell though? Do you know him to be able to tell that?

All we are talking about here is just 'speculation' if you like and there is no concrete evidence to suggest he did this or did that. So, I don't get why some have assessed the situation, treated it as a fact and then passed judgment on him like he has murdered someone.

This thread .... Awesome !

[didierforever 7,349]

According to a belgian newspaper its mata or kdb, only 1can leave, thats why wolfsburg is in a hurry to get the kdb deal done

then tell me how selling mata but keeping kdb makes us a better team/squad!!!

[sutro 1,026]

then tell me how selling mata but keeping kdb makes us a better team/squad!!!

I prefer mata so i dunno

[Melanicus 5,208]

[xPetrCechx 13,548]

The future of Juan Mata was again brought up, as it was after the game against Southampton on Wednesday, with the manager's opinion unchanged.

'I keep saying I want him to stay. There have been no offers. Today he trained in a fantastic way so I think he focused more on [when I said] "I don't want him to leave" and not on when I said "the door is always open".

'He's moved on. He was happy with the victory at Southampton so today he trained in a fantastic way. There are no problems.'

[Korea 734]

we have 3 DMs in lamps, mikel and rambo. 2 of them are inconsistent (mikel, lamps). one of them SHOULD not be playing more than 1 match in a week,

if we sell mata right now (with kdb surely leaving), we will be having 4 AMs down from 6 and will be losing our most potent weapon - strength in depth. how many PL matches have our AMs influenced after coming from the bench. also after getting an injury to even one of those 4 AMs we will be having 3 AMs with no one to influence the game off the bench. so please think what is best for the team. how is selling mata going to better chelsea. can u give me a couple of pointers??

Both Eto and Torres can play on the wings 4-3-3. In addition, Rambo can play on the wings.....Juan Mata under Jose in the wings is not Juan Mata under Rafa behind Torres..

Doesnt matter what you think about who should be playing more than 1 match a week cause Jose still plays Lampard/Rambo every match possible...

Raising funds in a potentially Mata sale would be beneficial for Jose so the press doesnt bother him every week (similar to KDB) and their less stress within the club..In addition, he can reinvest the funds and purchase a CM, LB and a CB.

If Oscar gets injured, Willian is the next one in line, not Mata. Right now, AM is the position that is the least of our worries, if Mourinho is here long term, why would we keep Mata when we can sell him for high profits (potentially) and obtain players that would flourish under Mourinho...makes no sense, when we have other positions that need to be addressed.

[Henrique 9,133]

@Barbara Of course you have every right to hold this viewpoint of Mata but the moment you dish your opinion out on a public forum then people have their own right to comment, scrutinize and challenge that opinion. Fyi the post of yours I read (and I read it very carefully) was the one where you called Mata’s reaction a “spectacle, pathetic display”. Those were you’re exact words. You then argued that Mata’s reaction meant that he was questioning the “superior choice” of Mourinho. I think that's a knee-jerk claim, but whatever. Then you called him “a spoiled child” and questioned how many professional players would be seen doing that (btw quite a few have done worse). So to answer your question, yes I did read your post and your comments in that post doesn't at all sound like the words of someone who understands or acknowledges that Mata's reaction was an isolated incident and one that was uncharacteristic of him.

I think what truly boggles my mind about all of this, is that what you're calling a "spectacle, pathetic display" was one minutia moment of frustration where Mata showed some visible signs of annoyance and gestured towards the direction of the pitch. That’s what has got you, Alex and others on here, up in hands and practically foaming at the proverbial mouth? You're going on about the “Juan Mata fanboys”, using mockery terms like 'Saint Mata' and making wild speculations about mata “questioning the authority of Mourinho”…. I mean, real talk, what the deuce is this? I’m I in some kind of alternate universe where Chelsea FC is now a totalitarian regime ruled by a superior master? Where Juan Mata is public enemy no.1 and anyone caught sympathizing with him gets flocked for questioning the authority of the master? Seriously.

Because some on here prefer Mata over Oscar and don’t agree with Mourinho for marginalizing him, is that what merits this ridiculing and labelling of them as ‘mata fanboys’? I think we should get one thing straight, we’re all Chelsea supporters here and each of us supports the club in whatever way we deem fit. I support this manager and while I might not agree with his handling of Mata, I accept it and understand his decision. If a fellow supporter doesn't like the way Mata is being treated, then that’s their prerogative, it doesn't make their interest in the club any less than yours which is basically what you and a few on here seem to be implying - that you and you guys alone, the "non-Juan mata fan boys" are the ones who truly hold the best interests of the club. The beauty about supporting a football club is that not all supporters will see eye to eye but yet we still support the club and defend its integrity in the best way we know how. You don’t like the way some on here overly sympathize with "poor, little, innocent Juan Mata" while painting Mourinho as a villain? Hey I get that and you're entitled to be critical of that attitude. But what you're doing is now turning Mata, himself into a villain because of your annoyance with these 'mata sympathizers' and that's not right at all.

In any case, labels like "mata fanboys" creates nothing but unnecessary divisions. Chelsea football club is not an authoritarian regime. Mata is not an enemy of the state and those who sympathize with him are not some kind of rebel group out to bring down the special one. They're supporters with opposing viewpoints. At least that's what they told me to say, bad joke!

The problem with your post is: Mourinho is giving Mata the chances, he started almost as many as Oscar, but he has been avarage at best. So if you still prefer Mata over Oscar at this point, you really look like a fan-boy.

As you said, this is a football forum, so dont get angry to find this kind of terms here. Being a fanboy is not that bad at all.

[Barbara 15,149]

this was originally on single post, but I'll split it in two because it's two completely different subjects (at least for me) that keep getting mixed together here.

Then you called him “a spoiled child” and questioned how many professional players would be seen doing that (btw quite a few have done worse). So to answer your question, yes I did read your post and your comments in that post doesn't at all sound like the words of someone who understands or acknowledges that Mata's reaction was an isolated incident and one that was uncharacteristic of him. I think what truly boggles my mind about all of this, is that what you're calling a "spectacle, pathetic display" was one minutia moment of frustration where Mata showed some visible signs of annoyance and gestured towards the direction of the pitch.

cc: @Strike

I think that was a pathetic, childish, bratty, unprofessional display. Did my not ideal knowledge of the language got me misunderstood? Or isn't display something like a moment or a reaction opposed to what words such as nature, character, profile - that in my head give an idea of permanent while display only gives the idea of an occurrence?

You guys think it's nothing worth mentioning because he's always had exemplar behavior. I agree on his past behavior, just because he's always been great, it doesn't give him a free pass to be called on his ridiculous actions when he was subbed. If you think his actions are worth of claps or just his reliever, after being frustrated, or whatever, good for you. I don't like such behavior in any professional, especially when it wasn't entitled at all. He didn't have a good match, he contributed with nothing except a 1x1 with Hazard my grandma would have made the same pass. Why on hell could he be mad at Mourinho as his gestures seem to clearly show (not only totally skipping his usual handshake, pat in the back, or whatever kind of greeting, but gesturing towards where Mourinho was). I could imagine a lot of ways of Mata showing frustration towards himself and his performance in the pitch, but that wasn't it. I could be wrong, the same way all of you could. You think he ignored Mourinho, and gestured towards him while saying a lot of things only people around heard based in whatever track of thought you could possibly justify it, shows frustration towards himself and not his boss, okay, I got it. If a guy reacts that strongly ABOUT A SUB I suppose he's frustrated at BEING SUBBED. My bad for interpreting what happened in such a non-expected, non-logical way.

As for the fanboy term, well some people just are, what do you want me to call them? I'm not saying everyone who loves or likes him are fanboys, otherwise I'd be one... I really like Mata and my twitter account is a testament to how I worshiped the guy last season (as I joined the forum last June). There's only one player in this team I'm a fangirl of and that's not Mata (or Oscar) and I won't get offended if someone calls me that (I even had that as my member title here for a while and I'll change it back again) because that I am (and go see how many times I've criticized Eden even being clearly a fangirl of the kid, just because I love the kid beyond words, think he's the best thing ever since slice bread doesn't mean I won't disapprove his actions when they're bad in my eyes or when he's in bad form). So if people get offended by the label is because they're defensive about their own behavior, otherwise, that's wrong on being called a fanboy/girl? So we have to be serious all the time, rational and not appreciate a player on a personal level? If only it was the reality... I'm too happy it isn't. If it doesn't blind me about a player, it's all good in my book.

I was just clarifying I have one opinion about an isolated episode and another opinion about Mata as a professional football player all things considered. I won't overlook his bad behavior just because he has credit. If you and the rest of the world does, good for you guys. Stop calling me on that! Yes, forums are for discussion, but this discussion about what people FEEL and THINK about a player's reaction came too far. You come here, you post your opinion about the incident, I post mine and so does everyone else. Why people feel they have a right - just because this a forum - to call people on their feelings about an incident is beyond me. Discussing if he should leave or not, discussing if he fits the system or not, if Mourinho is right or wrong about benching him, it all makes sense because you give arguments people maybe didn't consider. Those are opinions, you add a lot of things to the discussion. Now you keep coming back on how we feel about an incident makes no sense! I feel Alex has been ganged up by all of you simply because that's how he feels about any football player with such behavior. This is how we feel, we didn't choose to feel like that. Speaking about me, this is my reaction towards any football player whatever his name is Mata, Hazard, Cristiano or Javier Zanetti!

Shall we now discuss why I love peaches but can't stand eggplant? Or shall we discuss how much toxins modern agriculture puts in our food everyday even when we decided to eat fresh food? Questioning why I disapprove bratty displays is the same as questioning why I dislike eating eggplants. It shouldn't be up to discussion.

[Barbara 15,149]

now onto the part I guess it's up to discussion (and I know there are people that thought the 'free show' he provided was okay, but that also think Mourinho is right on how he's been handling Mata, so this is again a general answer based on some posts I've read and my general opinion in the matter, consider this a reset)

Calling what Mourinho did based EXCLUSIVELY on performance and form is marginalizing Mata makes no sense in my head. When was the last time he had a great match for us? I think he had a good match against Arsenal in the League Cup (nothing spectacular, but still a good match). Recently (I always mix matches when they're too close to one another) he had a good match in the EPL - one he's started - but in all honesty those were the only worth mentioning matches he had in the 15 he started (and let's not ignore the 3 he came as a sub because Oscar and Willian proved coming as a sub doesn't take away your chance to destroy a match, no matter how many minutes unless it's the 85-90 mark sub to gain time). So how is that marginalizing a player? I will never understand why people use PAST form to justify a player staying in the team CURRENTLY when there are others doing better. Oscar was dropped, Willian was dropped, Schurrle was dropped. Anyone but Eden Hazard was dropped in that AM and that's because Mourinho chose to give confidence to the guy he thinks will be our Balon d'Or winner in a couple of years. Mourinho is absolutely right in his assessment imo and it seems the people voting for Balon d'Or agree, as they chose Hazard (rightfully) and not Mata as the Chelsea player to be part of the list (now if any of them deserved to be in the list is another discussion, but supposing one of our players deserved, that player is Hazard imo). He's the manager, he has the right to make that choice and we have the right to disagree and argue. I see the dividends of his choice in the pitch. Hazard has yet to play a match or a span of them like he did in the very beginning of EPL and the very ending of the season last year, but I look at him now and I think he's a better player, he's more important to us, he's improving and I just support Mourinho's choice all over again (as I did since the beginning).

The problem is people wanted Mourinho to choose Mata to be his guy, but he chose the more talented player in the squad instead. They seem to forget Mata was injured and when he was introduced in the team other players had already pre-season and official matches under their belt, had adapted better to the drills and what Mourinho wanted from them. He had to catch up, that's why he was dropped before he even had a chance. Then ever since he's been giving chances and those chances progressively increased. He had more chances in November-December than in September-October. But the naked truth is he did nothing or very little of the chances he's received and Willian and Schurrle who's received less chances and are still adapting to the league had better matches (not overall, but certain matches). Schurrle even won us matches and it's ridiculous that after scoring two goals against Stoke we made his efforts to be lost (just like Oscar's against Juve last year) by allowing the opposition to draw or win. I won't even mention the many matches Oscar won us either with goals or with the balance he's gave to our midfield because that's unfair with Mata...

I'm going to support Mourinho marginalizing any player that currently doesn't show good football and I can't be against him pushing a young kid, who's 22, to his limits while he's alternating good and bad matches (at some point I wanted Eden to be dropped from a game to push him to react faster, I don't remember now if he was dropped from UCL or EPL - I guess he was in UCL, but whatever Mourinho did, worked, because he's been the best player for us in the holiday's period - which is the most demanding period for players in England). I defended Mourinho benching Schurrle at times and I also complained about Mourinho dropping him for no reason whatsoever when he was playing well. I did the same with Willian. Mourinho's made mistakes - like any manager does - but I don't think he's made one mistake on handling Mata (as far as I can remember).

Does he play better in the middle? Yes, he does. But he's been playing as a winger his whole career in Spain, so it's not like Mourinho asked him to play a position he's never played before. We have a weak pivot, but our FB are good defenders. They defend very well, I'd place my biggest defensive liability near the guys that defend better rather than guys that need help instead of providing it. Why Mourinho had no problem playing Eden in the middle in the last two matches? Because he knows he can press and tackle. Mourinho looks what's better for the team as a whole... he can't (actually he can, but he won't, and that proves why he's one of the top managers in the world) put Mata in his best position where he may or may not create a lot for us (he hasn't so far, and every single match he's played for us this year he's spent some time in the middle. in some it was where he spent less time, but in others where he's spent more time. Go to Squawka and check heat maps and action maps), but where he'll expose even more one of our deficiencies. It's not rocket science, it's very simple actually to understand why Mourinho plays him more in the wing than in the middle. He's slow, he doesn't naturally tackle, he doesn't press well, he doesn't have the instinct. The system is based in pressing and dispossessing the opposition and the system based on our results and our positions in UCL and EPL proves to be more effective than the ones we had in the last two seasons (actually since Carlo, but we're talking about Mata here).

Still those are my arguments to defend Mourinho's approach and I don't mind people refuting them with whatever others arguments, so feel free to answer back about it. As for the pitiful display of rage, frustration or whatever after he was subbed, I'm mum from now on. You may want to answer, and that will be the final word about it. This is how I feel about the episode.

@, shall we open a thread thanking Mata for the two amazing years of football he had for us and how we appreciate everything he did and how we hope we'd continue to do it somehow? It could sort of be a statue (or altar) to recognize him. Maybe that way people won't jump to the ridiculous assumption people who criticize Mata for his below par matches this season, disapproving reaction and being rightfully benched based on performance will understand we aren't ignoring, forgetting or not being thankful for what he's done here... I'm not being sarcastic at all. I'll have a lot to say in said thread, A LOT because present time I don't have much positive to say on his football presentations (when there was something good from him, I did), but I could use a place to pay my respect and gratitude.

[Pizy 17,860]

Jesus, Barb! These giant posts.

When's your footy novel coming out? I'll buy a few copies.

[Barbara 15,149]

Jesus, Barb! These giant posts.

When's your footy novel coming out? I'll buy a few copies.

I don't have footy novels, but I have 13 novels. Want the ebooks?

[dee25 1,044]

The problem with your post is: Mourinho is giving Mata the chances, he started almost as many as Oscar, but he has been avarage at best. So if you still prefer Mata over Oscar at this point, you really look like a fan-boy.

As you said, this is a football forum, so dont get angry to find this kind of terms here. Being a fanboy is not that bad at all.

I think the point is that some use terms like "Mata fanboys" as an easy way to discredit opinions that are different from theirs. It's just lazy & ends up only provoking people.

I agree that Mourinho has given Mata chances but I also think he made up his mind about Mata long before he gave him those chances. How much minutes has Mata actually played compared to Oscar? It won't be surprising to me if it's a lot less.

The way I see it, Oscar fits in with Mourinho's system and that kind of makes it easier for him to perform better than Mata and also makes it inevitable that Mata will fail in this system.

If people still prefer Mata in the no.10 role over Oscar even though the former has been average then its because we generally tend to create more chances when Mata plays in that role. Mourinho has shown that he's justified in persisting with Oscar but some forget that up until recently, we hadn’t at all looked impressive for a stretch of games. Before the Soton match, there was very little we could use as evidence that Oscar does make the team better (other than maybe our league position). Before these recent games, Oscar had still yet to register 1 assist in the league even though he’s started the majority of the games this season. Lampard has created more chances from central midfield than Oscar has in the no. 10 position. Mata also has created more chances than Oscar despite playing less minutes and playing out of position. It's not hard to see why people would prefer him in the no. 10. Now it’s easy to make a clear case that Oscar makes the team better but people forget that there was a while where, match after match, we very much struggled to create chances and were relying mainly on goalkeeping errors.

IMO, the way some people prefer Mata to Oscar is no different from how some prefer Luiz over Cahill, Azpi over Iva, Mikel over Lampard etc. A lot of these people who are making “Mata fanboy” accusations are the same people who have argued for Luiz to be played over Cahill when a case can be made that Cahill has been better than Luiz. Funny how they don't see that as "fanboying".

[The only place to be 11,313]

IMO, the way some people prefer Mata to Oscar is no different from how some prefer Luiz over Cahill, Azpi over Iva, Mikel over Lampard etc. A lot of these people who are making “Mata fanboy” accusations are the same people who have argued for Luiz to be played over Cahill when a case can be made that Cahill has been better than Luiz. Funny how they don't see that as "fanboying".

Completely disagree. Oscar is our most important player and the choice between him and Mata has massive ramifications on the way we play football compared to those other positions.

If people still prefer Mata in the no.10 role over Oscar even though the former has been average then its because we generally tend to create more chances when Mata plays in that role..

If they're basing it on 'creating chances' then that might make sense. But shouldn't they be basing it on how the team plays as a whole?

The way I see it, Oscar fits in with Mourinho's system and that kind of makes it easier for him to perform better than Mata and also makes it inevitable that Mata will fail in this system.

Absolutely agree, but you'll see people using Mata's two POTY awards as some sort of justification for Mourinho needing to build the team around him. Fanboy is a bad term to use in my opinion, but I'm not sure what other word you might use.

[Barbara 15,149]

IMO, the way some people prefer Mata to Oscar is no different from how some prefer Luiz over Cahill, Azpi over Iva, Mikel over Lampard etc. A lot of these people who are making “Mata fanboy” accusations are the same people who have argued for Luiz to be played over Cahill when a case can be made that Cahill has been better than Luiz. Funny how they don't see that as "fanboying

and still they went to the Cahill thread and said he was the best CB playing for us and David rightfully deserved to be benched.

Or recognizing him as our best man in the pitch, not only among the defends, but the whole team.

There, mister, is the difference between fanboying/girling and still being able to see instead of being plain blind.

Cheers!

[dee25 1,044]

and still they went to the Cahill thread and said he was the best CB playing for us and David rightfully deserved to be benched.

There, mister, is the difference between fanboying/girling and still being able to see instead of being plain blind.

Cheers!

Well I wasn't exactly referring to you specifically, Barbara. Just commenting generally on the irony of this fanboy business. So spare me the melodrama. Please. If I have something to say about a point you specifically mentioned then believe me I have no reservations in responding directly to you.

Secondly, so you finally gave Cahill some recognition after four months into the season..... :woo:

Break out the champagne!

[Barbara 15,149]

Well I wasn't exactly referring to you specifically, Barbara. Just commenting generally on the irony of this fanboy business. So spare me the melodrama. Please. If I have something to say about a point you specifically mentioned then believe me I have no reservations in responding directly to you.

Secondly, so you finally gave Cahill some recognition after four months into the season..... :woo:

Break out the champagne!

well, I guess I was the one to introduce the term in the thread, and I have been very active in the Luiz/Cahill discussion, so I thought I was included in the group of people you meant. I don't regret using the term. Being a fanboy/girl isn't a problem. Being blinded by it is. We all could be subjected to that, I'm sure I've been in the past (may still be about Mourinho actually)