Everton 2-0 Chelsea

[LAM09 6,572]

1 minute ago, NikkiCFC said:

Well, he will start next games again because Broja is even more shit. 

Or, Poch could possibly do his job by finding a solution. It's a farfetched idea, I know.

[robsblubot 3,262]

50 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

Or, Poch could possibly do his job by finding a solution. It's a farfetched idea, I know.

What solution? I think fielding Haaland might break a few FA rules eh.

The roster is what it is. Can talk about management all we want, but there is only so much you can do if the players aren't good enough.

We signed a bunch of "projects" and this is the cost. Why would we expect any different?

[MoroccanBlue 5,218]

5 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

What solution? I think fielding Haaland might break a few FA rules eh.

The roster is what it is. Can talk about management all we want, but there is only so much you can do if the players aren't good enough.

We signed a bunch of "projects" and this is the cost. Why would we expect any different?

Our defensive organization and the gaps in midfield in both the build up/defensive phase has been going backwards. I get calling blame on the lack of quality from our players but as weeks progress we look more and more like a squad that isn't managed efficiently. I don't know what we are doing on the pitch and it just leaves me confused and angry. 

What are we doing in training?

 

[robsblubot 3,262]

11 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Our defensive organization and the gaps in midfield in both the build up/defensive phase has been going backwards. I get calling blame on the lack of quality from our players but as weeks progress we look more and more like a squad that isn't managed efficiently. I don't know what we are doing on the pitch and it just leaves me confused and angry. 

What are we doing in training?

 

Well, I'm afraid you will find out that some players can be told a number of different things and they will won't be able to do them. Gaps aren't left by the manager, but by the players themselves. Having a Mudryk on the left wing, with a num 10 shirt at that, has a cost. Mudryk wouldn't get a spot on the bench for Tottenham. Palmer would be a great player coming off the bench--not so much as a starter.

Although important, quality isn't just about a player's skill on the ball.

Heh my prediction is:
1. Poch will get sacked (prob around Jan) -- always thought this squad was unmanageable in the PL.
2. the next manager will perform about the same and get sacked/replaced before they manage to fix the roster.

I honestly I think we do not have a good grasp as to how poor and unbalanced this roster really is.

[DDA 9,570]

5 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

 

Youness always bang on with his views. Watch him daily. 

[King Kante 1,340]

6 hours ago, robsblubot said:

Well, I'm afraid you will find out that some players can be told a number of different things and they will won't be able to do them. Gaps aren't left by the manager, but by the players themselves. Having a Mudryk on the left wing, with a num 10 shirt at that, has a cost. Mudryk wouldn't get a spot on the bench for Tottenham. Palmer would be a great player coming off the bench--not so much as a starter.

Although important, quality isn't just about a player's skill on the ball.

Heh my prediction is:
1. Poch will get sacked (prob around Jan) -- always thought this squad was unmanageable in the PL.
2. the next manager will perform about the same and get sacked/replaced before they manage to fix the roster.

I honestly I think we do not have a good grasp as to how poor and unbalanced this roster really is.

Good post and agree. The squad is midtable in its' current iteration. People thinking it is the manager are delusional. Pretty much any other manager - bar a Pep or Klopp - would have us in a similar position. 

[Strike 6,989]

6 hours ago, robsblubot said:

Well, I'm afraid you will find out that some players can be told a number of different things and they will won't be able to do them. Gaps aren't left by the manager, but by the players themselves. Having a Mudryk on the left wing, with a num 10 shirt at that, has a cost. Mudryk wouldn't get a spot on the bench for Tottenham. Palmer would be a great player coming off the bench--not so much as a starter.

Although important, quality isn't just about a player's skill on the ball.

Heh my prediction is:
1. Poch will get sacked (prob around Jan) -- always thought this squad was unmanageable in the PL.
2. the next manager will perform about the same and get sacked/replaced before they manage to fix the roster.

I honestly I think we do not have a good grasp as to how poor and unbalanced this roster really is.

We watched a CL winning team ripped up. That team had its faults but we are now so much further away from completing the team 😄

[Reddish-Blue 2,237]

40 minutes ago, King Kante said:

Good post and agree. The squad is midtable in its' current iteration. People thinking it is the manager are delusional. Pretty much any other manager - bar a Pep or Klopp - would have us in a similar position. 

I disagree, think there are quite a few pragmatic managers out there who would have done better with the current squad. 

This was our chance to build a spine for the next 5+ years and we went and got a manager with zero mentality and no record of winning any serious trophies. 

Now it makes sense as to why Enrique wasn't in the shortlist, he didn't want to deal with the new ownership and so many kids at the same time. 

[Reddish-Blue 2,237]

7 hours ago, robsblubot said:

Well, I'm afraid you will find out that some players can be told a number of different things and they will won't be able to do them. Gaps aren't left by the manager, but by the players themselves. Having a Mudryk on the left wing, with a num 10 shirt at that, has a cost. Mudryk wouldn't get a spot on the bench for Tottenham. Palmer would be a great player coming off the bench--not so much as a starter.

Although important, quality isn't just about a player's skill on the ball.

Heh my prediction is:
1. Poch will get sacked (prob around Jan) -- always thought this squad was unmanageable in the PL.
2. the next manager will perform about the same and get sacked/replaced before they manage to fix the roster.

I honestly I think we do not have a good grasp as to how poor and unbalanced this roster really is.

I disagree, I think someone like Mudryk would get a spot on the bench for a number of clubs...for the same reason Arsenal originally wanted him (squad depth and cover for Martinelli/Saka).   The difference is, Mudryk would just be slotting into a solid Arsenal offense....and the pressure would be off.   Bit different to having a 70 million price tag on your head and being recognised as a meme for your time at Chelsea so far...

Same can be said for someone like Caicedo....where Callum Wilson said he recalls Caicedo being a center midfielder as per the lineup but in terms of tactics, he would usually drop into the right midfield type role and cover the wingers and space left by the Brighton fullback who was almost always in the final third of the pitch.   That might be different to what he's being asked to do under Poch and he doesn't strike me as the technician type of midfielder who can get out of pressure and play those vertical passes/passes over the top to help link up the attack (something which Rice does so well). 

I feel like we bought all these spare parts for a nice vehicle but none of them actually fit together and this is leading to a broken tactical system and teams have figured this out. 

[Chuckso 17]

Did anyone notice last season, apart from our game against AC Milan (who allowed us the freedom of the pitch to play), our best performance was the lone game with Bruno Saltor in our 0-0 draw against Liverpool. We were pants the previous games under Potter, had a lone smashing game under Saltor, then went back to being absolute pants the very NEXT game under Frank.

Now I am not saying Bruno would have carried the form on but it is an indication as to someone, who would not be called on, getting the best out of the players and doing so immediately. So this little case study shows that people who dismiss the impact of a manager or leader on his charges do not know what they are talking about.
 

There are people out there that may not be known who could do this. It is about finding them - someone who CONSISTENTLY gets the best out of his players, a football philosophy in-line with the club’s and who are not fazed by the job and have ambition. (Like the punt Tottenham did with their manager). A tall order but that is what is needed. 
 

What is without a shadow of a doubt is Poch IS NOT IT.

 

The reason why I say this is because as Charles Darwin said the specie that survives is the one most adaptable. The ones slow to adapt would perish. I have seen since the start of the season the problems with his team. We are more than half way into the season without changes. Even if he was to fix this particular problem his slowness to see and fix things means we would always be playing catch up to other more insightful and change-ready managers.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Chuckso

[cosmicway 1,263]

As always the big problem is these people can't score.
What if Everton had scored their one goal but we had scored two or three ? Who would care ?
Then their second goal could never have happened if there was a decent formation to defend the corner and there would be if everyone was not despaired at that time.

Football has changed the last five years.
Sometimes I watch old matches in youtube. Players like Francis Lee, Chivers, more recent ones like Rush and Dalglish and even more recent ones like Lampard, Drog. These people were allowed fields and acres of free space by the defenders and they were scoring those spectacular goals of the past. But I also remember seeing them from the terraces. Nowadays EPL defenses are running at you like bees and hack you down. 
But other teams have found antidotes while we are stuck.
 

[Special Juan 27,111]

And as expected the loss against Everton confirmed.

Absolutley atrocious again- Jackson, Mudryk et al fucking rubbish, Mudryk is finished and we need to get rid, as for Jackson, absolute sad excuse for a footballer.

Said months ago Reece James is fucked, and yesterday confirmed it again, he won'y play ten games this season from this point.

Relegation is on the horizon. 

[cosmicway 1,263]

In an age where football is internationalised this Chelsea team would be second force in Spain-Germany, good for France, superb for Italy, without an opponent in other countries.
But no good for the EPL.
And from our Brighton squad only Cucurella stands his ground.

[Special Juan 27,111]

Chelsea used to be my escape from reality, now reality is an escape from Chelsea

[cosmicway 1,263]

The problem is those scouts of ours don't understand that all foreign leagues are inferior and they buy low quality players thinking they are good quality.
It's like our Panathinaikos once upon a time.
They were generally good in the transfer market but also bought one or two players from Megara -the place where the eggs come from- and from other small towns. These players were heroes over there but useless for Panathinaikos.
The exception appears to be Caicedo who came from Brighton but plays like a substitute for Barkley.

[Blue Armour 4,176]

7 hours ago, Chuckso said:

Did anyone notice last season, apart from our game against AC Milan (who allowed us the freedom of the pitch to play), our best performance was the lone game with Bruno Saltor in our 0-0 draw against Liverpool. We were pants the previous games under Potter, had a lone smashing game under Saltor, then went back to being absolute pants the very NEXT game under Frank.

Now I am not saying Bruno would have carried the form on but it is an indication as to someone, who would not be called on, getting the best out of the players and doing so immediately. So this little case study shows that people who dismiss the impact of a manager or leader on his charges do not know what they are talking about.
 

There are people out there that may not be known who could do this. It is about finding them - someone who CONSISTENTLY gets the best out of his players, a football philosophy in-line with the club’s and who are not fazed by the job and have ambition. (Like the punt Tottenham did with their manager). A tall order but that is what is needed. 
 

What is without a shadow of a doubt is Poch IS NOT IT.

 

The reason why I say this is because as Charles Darwin said the specie that survives is the one most adaptable. The ones slow to adapt would perish. I have seen since the start of the season the problems with his team. We are more than half way into the season without changes. Even if he was to fix this particular problem his slowness to see and fix things means we would always be playing catch up to other more insightful and change-ready managers.

When you take a slightly terrible Tuchel team and turn it into absolute shite under Potter & Lampard:

THAT'S when you can question the managerial impact.

When you chop up 3/4 th of the squad and replace it with inexperienced 'potential' , all in 2 transfer windows, you CANNOT really question managerial impact, because you really don't have a frame of reference for this team. And this team has 0 achievements to begin with.

So no. Poch is NOT the root cause of the problems today. 

Even if there is someone out there that is better, I won't trust these lot up top to find them.

Do you remember how LONG it took for them to even settle on Poch and hire him? How long are they going to wait till they bring in another real candidate. What low quality interim manager are they going to install

[Chuckso 17]

4 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

When you take a slightly terrible Tuchel team and turn it into absolute shite under Potter & Lampard:

THAT'S when you can question the managerial impact.

When you chop up 3/4 th of the squad and replace it with inexperienced 'potential' , all in 2 transfer windows, you CANNOT really question managerial impact, because you really don't have a frame of reference for this team. And this team has 0 achievements to begin with.

So no. Poch is NOT the root cause of the problems today. 

Even if there is someone out there that is better, I won't trust these lot up top to find them.

Do you remember how LONG it took for them to even settle on Poch and hire him? How long are they going to wait till they bring in another real candidate. What low quality interim manager are they going to install

S: When you take a slightly terrible Tuchel team and turn it into absolute shite under Potter & Lampard:

THAT'S when you can question the managerial impact.
 

R: We have already seen some measure of managerial impact - that happened in their previous clubs under their previous managers and why they were acquired for serious money.

 

S: When you chop up 3/4 th of the squad and replace it with inexperienced 'potential' , all in 2 transfer windows, you CANNOT really question managerial impact, because you really don't have a frame of reference for this team. And this team has 0 achievements to begin with.

R: As I had said previously, it has been done before. I cited Alex Ferguson’s 1996 ManU team, Monaco’s 2016/17 team. There are many more examples if I can be bothered to do the research. As one poster has pointed out and I have explained why - we are going backwards. We should be seeing progress. 

 

S: Do you remember how LONG it took for them to even settle on Poch and hire him? How long are they going to wait till they bring in another real candidate. What low quality interim manager are they going to install

 

R: So the argument is to stick with mediocrity because we MIGHT get mediocrity as a replacement? We should be afraid of the unknown.
 

Roman who presided over our most successful time did so because he would not stand mediocrity and we were rewarded with the most successful period in the club’s history. Granted we began to run out of managers to chase, but that was one of the faults of the Roman era even though a minor one - he only went after proven winners - some of them were incompatible with the vision he wanted for the club and the way he wanted football to be played. However I digress a little.

 

Bottom line: we are going backwards and if a leader cannot find solutions and quickly enough, he should get the sack. Our current manager fits the bill.

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Chuckso

[robsblubot 3,262]

@Chuckso we may have a fundamental disagreement here. You think the situation we are in has happened before, elsewhere or not.

For me, the situation is unprecedented: not only the number of changes in the squad (which you addressed), but the age and inexperience of the new signings make this a very unique situation.