The Tuchel Thread

[blahblahblah 73]

4 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Being compared and being the same are two different things mate. Look at PSGs squad for example, all those big hitters last year and they couldn’t get a really decent team out of them. Also, people in the media thought Man United could be competing for the title after signing Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho months after Ole had them 2nd.

The difference with guys like Origi, AOC, Ake, Zinchenko, Tmikias, compared to Saul, RLC, Alonso and Barkley are they are actually decent enough players and have secured/will secure good moves if they leave/were to leave. RLC and Ross wouldn’t (hence why hes off on a free and only partial link for RLC is Lazio due to lazy Sarri link from that 2 month purple patch he had here) and well Sauls back at Atletico and Alonso is only linked to Barca as a back up. 

Zinchenko has already shown he is actually a pretty good player at Arsenal and even at City at times last year. Just needed regular games. Origi didn't go to AC Milan, Serie A champions, who already have Ibra and Giroud for nothing. Ake wasn't linked/almost sign here for nothing. They're good players (although Ake not starting quality for the likes of a City). 

I don't get why Barkley and rlc are so important to the conversation. We play a double pivot and Barkley and rlc were 5th and 6th choice for those positions. More than apt for those positions. 

Also, origi went to milan, as did bakayoko, and we all know how poor he was in Prem. 

Lastly, United were never in the conversation. They have the most delusional fan base and there might have been some noise here and there, but no one really expected anything from them. As for us, i do agree that having big hitters does not make you a guaranteed elite club, but that's the difference between having a klopp or pep compared to having a TT. It was his job to make it work and he has hopelessly underachieved. 

[Blues11 213]

2 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

What does everyone here think of Arteta? Almost everyone agreed that his first few seasons sucked..

Now that Arsenal stuck with him and that he's on top of the table, what's your opinion? Is he a superior coach to Tuchel.

Genuinely curious what people think.

I watched the whole season of All or Nothing and I can say Arteta did impress me. He holds players accountable but never forgets to improve the team chemistry and build confidence in his players.

He's done a fantastic job developing young talents like Saka, Martinelli, Smith Rowe, etc. Odegaard who some thought might not reach his potential has looked miles better under Arteta. Even Granit Xhaka has looked half way decent lately. 

I can't say he's better than Tuchel at the moment but I do think TT burns a lot of bridges in the dressing room. He doesn't really look interested in building the confidence of the team, just yelling and calling them out in the media as a tactic of motivation. Just take a look at how many players have left and want to leave here. Yeah we can sit here and say let them leave if they don't want to be a blue, but eventually you have to think there's more to it. 

 

[Blue Armour 4,336]

1 hour ago, Blues11 said:

I watched the whole season of All or Nothing and I can say Arteta did impress me. He holds players accountable but never forgets to improve the team chemistry and build confidence in his players.

He's done a fantastic job developing young talents like Saka, Martinelli, Smith Rowe, etc. Odegaard who some thought might not reach his potential has looked miles better under Arteta. Even Granit Xhaka has looked half way decent lately. 

I can't say he's better than Tuchel at the moment but I do think TT burns a lot of bridges in the dressing room. He doesn't really look interested in building the confidence of the team, just yelling and calling them out in the media as a tactic of motivation. Just take a look at how many players have left and want to leave here. Yeah we can sit here and say let them leave if they don't want to be a blue, but eventually you have to think there's more to it. 

 

Fair points, and whilst I do agree that Tuchel seems to be on a short fuse these days, I'd argue I've seen the same with Arteta too.

He practically drove Aubameyang out of the club (despite advocating for his contract extension initially), and also put Xhaka on the spot (rightfully so in this case) when he went on a red card spree.

Maybe Arteta is a calmer head behind the scenes, but I haven't seen Tuchel behind the scenes so can't compare.

@blahblahblah what's your take on Arteta v Tuchel? I saw you like the Blues11's post so surely you must have an opinion.

Personally for me, the jury is still out on Arteta. He's done a great job so far this season, but at the same time he was given a lot of time for his ideas to take hold, costing Arsenal even Europa conference league football along the way. 

By that token, Tuchel, while largely disappointing so far this season, has earned more time to bring his vision to fruition.

 

[blahblahblah 73]

44 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Fair points, and whilst I do agree that Tuchel seems to be on a short fuse these days, I'd argue I've seen the same with Arteta too.

He practically drove Aubameyang out of the club (despite advocating for his contract extension initially), and also put Xhaka on the spot (rightfully so in this case) when he went on a red card spree.

Maybe Arteta is a calmer head behind the scenes, but I haven't seen Tuchel behind the scenes so can't compare.

@blahblahblah what's your take on Arteta v Tuchel? I saw you like the Blues11's post so surely you must have an opinion.

Personally for me, the jury is still out on Arteta. He's done a great job so far this season, but at the same time he was given a lot of time for his ideas to take hold, costing Arsenal even Europa conference league football along the way. 

By that token, Tuchel, while largely disappointing so far this season, has earned more time to bring his vision to fruition.

 

It depends on what the club are trying to do? We have spent 250m+, infact 300m this window, right? How many windows and seasons do you need to add up to get that total for arsenal?

Arsenal were willing to take a step back, and let arteta do his thing by developing the youth, namely saka, martinelli, Smith Rowe. 

tT has no direction. He can't possibly develop youth when he either keeps loaning them out or outright selling them. He infact would rather have a 33 year old auba than develop broja. 

How can you possibly compare the 2? Different situations, different problem statements. TT had a bunch of talented players who had done it all, he needed to find a system to get the best out of them. Now he wants to revamp and build a team around auba for god's sake. If you want to give time to a manager, you would give to some one who is willing to start from the scratch, rather than bring additional baggage in the name of "revamping".

As for arteta, he is doing a good job. He is actually developing talent rather than buying the aubas of the world. 

Again, depends what you want. I would gladly take a step or 2 back, if it meant revamping the whole thing. But let's not fool ourselves with it when our manager wants to spent 300m on players and then give him the leeway of "needs time". Let me be honest, you think giving TT a pass on this season improves us? We will be in transition for the next year too when we have 30+ kante and jorgi leaving or singing an extension. 

This was the year to revamp our mid and start anew, TT screwed it up. Infact he refuses to even acknowledge our most problematic area as even a problem. 

TT has given us exactly what he could. A CL. Expecting him to set up a dynasty or make a club his own is wishful thinking. He is not that type of a manager. Look at his record. If you are looking for that, maybe arteta is someone more along those lines, or maybe poch. 

I honestly think we need a change. Sticking with TT will just be dragging out a failed marriage to its inevitable ugly end. We might end up losing even more talented players who HE has failed to get the best out of. 

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by blahblahblah

[Fulham Broadway 16,977]

He now has a 20k fine for mentioning the Taylor match fixing.

Taylor should never ref a Chelsea game again he cost us 2 FA Cup Finals v Arsenal. He does not get fined but the TT fine goes to the FA to help pay Taylors wages.  Even Jenas ex Spurs said both goals should have struck off.

#still fuming

 

[Vegetable 830]

If we were into going into war with this shit he can as well not pay. What are they gonna do?

Footy has seen such move numerous times.

[Superblue 6,372]

2 hours ago, blahblahblah said:

It depends on what the club are trying to do? We have spent 250m+, infact 300m this window, right? How many windows and seasons do you need to add up to get that total for arsenal?

Not far really, Arsenal have spent nearly £300m themselves across last summer to this summer window.

And people are quick to forget how desperate Arsenal fans were for him to go this time last year, and some of the turgid, defensive football he was serving up for quite a long period of time. 

Credit to them currently, they are looking a much stronger outfit at present but the season has barely started. Let's see what their reaction is when they lose a game because past experience has suggested they don't deal well with knock backs.

I'm not going to sit here and act like I'm not disappointed with how our season has started and I'm furious with the Southampton game but I definitely don't feel like we should be hitting a panic button yet. Half our signings are coming in when the season has already started. I think it just needs the window to close now for us and Tuchel and the squad can just concentrate on playing football.

[bigbluewillie 1,868]

On 31/08/2022 at 01:13, Blue Armour said:

We also won 2 1 despite being a man down and then go on to lose the next game to mediocre opponents. Chelsea thing.

This was the Chelsea when I started supporting them sixty odd years ago.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.🤢

[ZAPHOD2319 4,542]

It takes a minute to bed in this many players.

[DDA 9,729]

11 hours ago, robsblubot said:

Koulibaly is 33 and moves like Thiago Silva. Simply not comparable with Rudiger imo

KK is 31 ?

[YorkshireBlue 3,144]

10 minutes ago, DDA said:

KK is 31 ?

Thank you couldn't bring myself to even respond lmao 

[blahblahblah 73]

4 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Not far really, Arsenal have spent nearly £300m themselves across last summer to this summer window.

And people are quick to forget how desperate Arsenal fans were for him to go this time last year, and some of the turgid, defensive football he was serving up for quite a long period of time. 

Credit to them currently, they are looking a much stronger outfit at present but the season has barely started. Let's see what their reaction is when they lose a game because past experience has suggested they don't deal well with knock backs.

I'm not going to sit here and act like I'm not disappointed with how our season has started and I'm furious with the Southampton game but I definitely don't feel like we should be hitting a panic button yet. Half our signings are coming in when the season has already started. I think it just needs the window to close now for us and Tuchel and the squad can just concentrate on playing football.

Damn. Would never have guessed they spent this much in the last 2 years. 

But i feel the core of the argument does not change. Is TT developing from the youth, hell no. 

Can TT boast a couple of players who have got significantly better under him like saka, martinelli, Smith Rowe? Hell no. 

Has TT's tactics consistently got us some good football? Hell no. 

Leave all of it aside, does TT have a decent enough grip on the problems with the squad? I would have to answer No. We were hardly even rumored with any midfielder, which in itself should be alarm bells. How can a manager of this club think that the current crop of CMs were fine to run it back with, but supposedly wants 5 out 7 of our attackers binned. 

This is NOT panic stations. It's an honest assessment of his time here. The CL win has glossed over a lot, but i feel all the credit he built up with it, has been used one insane decision and mistake after another. 

[robsblubot 3,580]

3 hours ago, DDA said:

KK is 31 ?

thanks stand corrected.

Still he moves like 33+ though... perhaps fitness?

And no, he does not move like Rudiger, which was my main point.

[bigbluewillie 1,868]

3 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

thanks stand corrected.

Still he moves like 33+ though... perhaps fitness?

And no, he does not move like Rudiger, which was my main point.

dear god get a grip man.

give him a chance to adapt.

you've obviously forgot what Rudiger was like when he first came here, he was a loose cannon ffs.

[robsblubot 3,580]

49 minutes ago, bigbluewillie said:

dear god get a grip man.

give him a chance to adapt.

you've obviously forgot what Rudiger was like when he first came here, he was a loose cannon ffs.

What? maybe I'm not making myself clear, it is my opinion after all.

Please don't conflate characteristics and quality. While I don't yet know how much Koulibaly will help, I already know he's no Rudiger in characteristics, as in style of play. He's a far more limited CB even if still a good one.

We are on the Tuchel thread here, and my original point was about how much losing Rudiger, and not getting a player of the same style, would hurt his strategy. I haven't seen enough of Fofana, but perhaps he may be able to fill that void left by Rudiger. That's all there is to it.

Edited September 1, 2022 by robsblubot

[cfccrost 23]

As i recall, when tuchel came our defense in attack was in the opponents half, now it isnt.

We are disjoint and all over the place this season

I think TT wanted al of this player bc he know that the ones he have do not believe in him

We ll see what will happen

[NikkiCFC 8,081]

Any indication he may finally drop 3atb system? I think we finally have players for that. 

[Gundalf 804]

1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

Any indication he may finally drop 3atb system? I think we finally have players for that. 

We played with 4 at the back for 3 ganes now. 

The results havent been overwhelming must be said.