The Tuchel Thread

[MoroccanBlue 5,297]

28 minutes ago, Beigl said:

Its not like their midfield offers good protection for their defenders. 

 I'm referring to individual mistakes vs having no protection in front of them. Varane has had a hand full in recent years. 

[Beigl 1,387]

1 hour ago, MoroccanBlue said:

 I'm referring to individual mistakes vs having no protection in front of them. Varane has had a hand full in recent years. 

Defenders make less mistakes when they feel security. Rudiger and Christensen looked like absolute clowns last season (Sheffield away the obvious example).  Under Tuchel they look like they have been  playing on a high level for years, knowing there are Kante and Jorginho+ Azpi at their best protecting them and also a borderline world class GK instead of Kepa behind them. 

[kolovrat 15]

Tuchel vs Gaurdiola record is: L 4, D 1, W 1

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/14870186/tuchel-record-guardiola-Chelsea-man-city/

As I understand, the victory is the one with Chelsea:

https://www.soccer24.com/match/OEPCLyJQ/#match-summary/match-summary

 But I couldn't find the other 5 matches via search.

Does anybody have this info?

[NikkiCFC 7,949]

12 minutes ago, kolovrat said:

Tuchel vs Gaurdiola record is: L 4, D 1, W 1

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/14870186/tuchel-record-guardiola-Chelsea-man-city/

As I understand, the victory is the one with Chelsea:

https://www.soccer24.com/match/OEPCLyJQ/#match-summary/match-summary

 But I couldn't find the other 5 matches via search.

Does anybody have this info?

It does not matter. If you coach Bayern and Guardiola Mainz you would have better record against him. 

[Magic Lamps 11,653]

59 minutes ago, kolovrat said:

Tuchel vs Gaurdiola record is: L 4, D 1, W 1

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/14870186/tuchel-record-guardiola-Chelsea-man-city/

As I understand, the victory is the one with Chelsea:

https://www.soccer24.com/match/OEPCLyJQ/#match-summary/match-summary

 But I couldn't find the other 5 matches via search.

Does anybody have this info?

In Bundesliga, Tuchel faced Pep twice with Mainz (a relegation cadidate TT lead in to Europa league and stabilised in midtable overall) and twice with a depleted BVB side. 3 of those 4 games were very narrow (1-0, 2-1, 2-1 and 4-1 for bayern) still. I would not read too much into that. I can't remember the draw tho.

[kolovrat 15]

21 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

In Bundesliga, Tuchel faced Pep twice with Mainz (a relegation cadidate TT lead in to Europa league and stabilised in midtable overall) and twice with a depleted BVB side. 3 of those 4 games were very narrow (1-0, 2-1, 2-1 and 4-1 for bayern) still. I would not read too much into that. I can't remember the draw tho.

Thanks a lot, great answer.

[NikkiCFC 7,949]

When were you last time excited about our club like this? 

[Tomo 21,733]

16 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

When were you last time excited about our club like this? 

Conte but that also makes me put my feet on the ground a bit as we know what happened there eventually.

Although that said I'm a little more hopeful as unlike Antonio TT tends to end up on the right side of disputes more often than not and, most crucially, seems firmly self aware that that's an aspect of his character that needs fine tuning.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

This dude is the shiznet for sure, we can press all over the pitch for 90 fucking min all game.........that is a feat in it self.

[manpe 10,861]

We would have won the league if he'd been here since the beginning of the season.

[Superblue 6,370]

19 hours ago, Tomo said:

Conte but that also makes me put my feet on the ground a bit as we know what happened there eventually.

Although that said I'm a little more hopeful as unlike Antonio TT tends to end up on the right side of disputes more often than not and, most crucially, seems firmly self aware that that's an aspect of his character that needs fine tuning.

It's early days and we'll have to see how things play out when we go through a sticky spell at some point. Or if we win the Champions League will he start to view himself as bulletproof and start trying to push for more things a la Conte when we won the league.

I think it's a blessing to be honest that he was at PSG before here and had to deal with Leonardo constantly talking to the media and having too much involvement on his area of the club, the coaching. Not much comes out from our club in higher positions which may well suit him and I think for our board he seems to be a perfect appointment, i.e. a world class coach that focuses on coaching the squad and letting the board deal with other club matters. He's extremely interesting to listen too, but also has a wit and charm about him without being controversial and winning the press over has been no small feat as most of us would admit that Lampard was and is a bit of a media darling. I think the club will appreciate that they were potentially sat on a PR disaster when they sacked Lampard, but Tuchel completely extinguished that notion.

The expectation or thought process of a manager staying long term went a long time ago. However based on what I've seen so far, if Tuchel remained here for 3-4 years after this season I think he is one of the most suitable coaches out there to install a style and philosophy within the club and develop a crop of younger players, that could stand us in good stead beyond his tenure, like Jose did in his first spell with us.

This feels a lot more than a new manager bounce. The likes of Di Matteo, Benitez and Hiddink may have made a few tweaks but ultimately kept things simple and lent on the experience within the group to go back to tried and trusted methods. Tuchel instead has completely revolutionised the formation and style of play and he's not just reaping rewards of that currently, but also essentially given himself now a 6 month head start on next season. He's taken the risk of making significant changes mid season and his belief and confidence in his methods has completely altered the landscape at this club.

[Tomo 21,733]

17 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

It's early days and we'll have to see how things play out when we go through a sticky spell at some point. Or if we win the Champions League will he start to view himself as bulletproof and start trying to push for more things a la Conte when we won the league.

I think it's a blessing to be honest that he was at PSG before here and had to deal with Leonardo constantly talking to the media and having too much involvement on his area of the club, the coaching. Not much comes out from our club in higher positions which may well suit him and I think for our board he seems to be a perfect appointment, i.e. a world class coach that focuses on coaching the squad and letting the board deal with other club matters. He's extremely interesting to listen too, but also has a wit and charm about him without being controversial and winning the press over has been no small feat as most of us would admit that Lampard was and is a bit of a media darling. I think the club will appreciate that they were potentially sat on a PR disaster when they sacked Lampard, but Tuchel completely extinguished that notion.

The expectation or thought process of a manager staying long term went a long time ago. However based on what I've seen so far, if Tuchel remained here for 3-4 years after this season I think he is one of the most suitable coaches out there to install a style and philosophy within the club and develop a crop of younger players, that could stand us in good stead beyond his tenure, like Jose did in his first spell with us.

This feels a lot more than a new manager bounce. The likes of Di Matteo, Benitez and Hiddink may have made a few tweaks but ultimately kept things simple and lent on the experience within the group to go back to tried and trusted methods. Tuchel instead has completely revolutionised the formation and style of play and he's not just reaping rewards of that currently, but also essentially given himself now a 6 month head start on next season. He's taken the risk of making significant changes mid season and his belief and confidence in his methods has completely altered the landscape at this club.

For all this talk of us being a poisoned chalice I think the total opposite, I don't think there's many if any clubs better equipped to build an era of success than Chelsea, the fact we haven't found that manager yet shouldn't distract from that.

They arrive to the best academy in the world (in terms of volume of quality produced) and an owner who heavily backs them, that's pretty much the dream scenario for a manager. Yes ofcourse big results are expected but why they shouldn't they be? You shouldn't need X amount of season's to become good with these type of resources.

And that's before we get into the fact the narrative around us and managers make us a free hit in terms of career damage, there's no risk for potentially unlimited reward.

[chippy 342]

The sacking of. Frank has proved once and for all there will never be a "project" under RA.

Like every manager before him, TT will have to consistently win trophies, or be sacked.

If TT wins the CL it will put enormous pressure on him to win the league or retain the CL next season. Anything less and hell be judged the same way Carlo was after his second season.

Should give managers more time but we don't and won't, so we just have to get on with it.

[Superblue 6,370]

2 hours ago, chippy said:

The sacking of. Frank has proved once and for all there will never be a "project" under RA.

Like every manager before him, TT will have to consistently win trophies, or be sacked.

If TT wins the CL it will put enormous pressure on him to win the league or retain the CL next season. Anything less and hell be judged the same way Carlo was after his second season.

Should give managers more time but we don't and won't, so we just have to get on with it.

I'd agree regarding the project idea but I don't think the demands are as great as they were at the club 8 - 10 years ago.

I think as long as the club are still trending upwards rather than free-falling, and there are no issues or controversy between board and manager, I think there is a greater patience now.

For example if we came top 4 next season but were much closer to first place, I don't believe that would cost Tuchel his job.

[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, chippy said:

The sacking of. Frank has proved once and for all there will never be a "project" under RA.

Like every manager before him, TT will have to consistently win trophies, or be sacked.

If TT wins the CL it will put enormous pressure on him to win the league or retain the CL next season. Anything less and hell be judged the same way Carlo was after his second season.

Should give managers more time but we don't and won't, so we just have to get on with it.

Yes, we still want to win trophies (and we haven't won anything yet) but given the profile of the current squad, there has to be progress and improvement. This isn't a ready made squad like 11-12 years ago.

The problem with Lampard was that there was no progress made during his 18 months in charge. Yes, we had that long unbeaten run earlier this season but by the end of his reign, it became obvious that the problems we saw last season were still there. There was no clear playing style and tactical idea, the pressing was all over the place, the team kept conceding on the break, he didn't seem to have any idea how to use the new players effectively and among others. We were either good or hopelessly bad. There was no middle ground. And this after spending more than 200 million on players in the summer. 

In less than 4 months, Tuchel has not only turned those weaknesses into strengths, he has also made progress with the team, collectively and individually. Plus, he has also made better use of the resources at hand. Yes, there are some deadwoods in the squad that we would likely sell (e.g. Emerson) but he has kept everyone on side and helped form what seemed to be tight-knit group among the players. Notice how the players seem to be mentioning the word "team" a lot these days. Obviously, the club will judge Tuchel on trophies but at the very least, he has put us on the right track again.

[MoroccanBlue 5,297]

We'd be 10th and knocked out of all competitions had we continued with Lampard. I'm glad Roman and co are not on board with managerial 'projects'. Especially with inexperienced managers. We'd be in a similar position Arsenal find themselves in.

The 'project' the club is striving for is becoming more sustainable. Fairly certain if we win both the FA Cup and Champions league this season, and go on not to win the league next season, Tuchel's job won't be on the line should we still see signs of progression and sustainability. Ancelotti wasn't sacked for not winning the league. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by MoroccanBlue

[NikkiCFC 7,949]

31 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

We'd be 10th and knocked out of all competitions had we continued with Lampard. 

There was something amateurish about Frank and his team. Him laughing on the bench in important moments not to mention his first assistant is alcoholic... 

 

33 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Ancelotti wasn't sacked for not winning the league. 

But for not winning CL... 

[MoroccanBlue 5,297]

10 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

But for not winning CL... 

Neither that. It was evident he was relying on the experience of our veteran players to get us out of slumps vs any tactical changes from him. He received the same criticism at Real, PSG, and Bayern, When the going gets tough, its stays that way under him.