The Tuchel Thread

[Jype 6,398]

1 hour ago, killer1257 said:

If Tuchel now somehow stars playing top class football, then obviously it was a very good decision to sack Lampard. But if not, we sacked our biggest club legend in his first rough spell at the club. I also don't think that Liverpool would sack Klopp if they do not reach Top 4.But Chelsea would sack Klopp for that lol. Conte was sacked for playing 5th and Ancelotti for reaching second place lol. Both won titles before that.. 

It wasn't 'the first rough spell' though, the signs were there all along after Lampard's initial honeymoon period around August - November 2019. Too many mistakes and too little improvement.

After what we saw from Frank this season did anyone think we'd be challenging for the title next year with him in charge? Frank's contract was up this summer anyway so if a change was to be made, it's good to have made it as early as possible to allow Tuchel to implement his ideas and gain some form before going into next season. And if Tuchel now makes top4 the sacking already proves more than justifiable for that alone.

Ancelotti sacking at the time was rash but the comparison with Klopp and Conte is by no means valid. Klopp is the single biggest reason Liverpool as a club are where they are today (or at least were last season) and he's been building the team for more than five years to reach that level of success so it's natural he has more wiggle room for disappointments. Conte on the other hand took over an already high quality squad, coached it to the title and then shit the bed all by himself by going on the warpath with the board and everyone knows there's only one way that's ever going to end. Maybe it would be the same fate for Klopp if he publicly threw FSG under the bus for their lack of investment this year and kept going on and on about it in all his press conferences, trying to shift the blame from himself to the higher-ups at the club. But he won't do that. Klopp won't be sacked for failing top4 but he might well walk out on his own if that happens.

[Jase 43,479]

 

[Milan 17,852]

It was so so important we managed him to stay.

 

[Vesper 28,683]

pre vegan Tuchel

Edited February 15, 2021 by Vesper

[killer1257 3,282]

22 minutes ago, Vesper said:

pre vegan Tuchel

He is not a vegan. He is s vegetarian that tries to be a vegan, but he does not say no to bolognese. So not all the time a vegetarian. 

[Azul 1,615]

Amazing what this manager has done in such short time. Where are the Lampard-in merchants that called me a plastic fan for telling people that we desperately needed a new manager? Can't seem to find them on this forum nowadays lol.

[Vesper 28,683]

1 hour ago, killer1257 said:

He is not a vegan. He is s vegetarian that tries to be a vegan, but he does not say no to bolognese. So not all the time a vegetarian. 

I stand corrected, lol

[ZAPHOD2319 4,465]

1 hour ago, Azul said:

Amazing what this manager has done in such short time. Where are the Lampard-in merchants that called me a plastic fan for telling people that we desperately needed a new manager? Can't seem to find them on this forum nowadays lol.

They are all enjoying the winning you plastic fan...😝

[Azul 1,615]

35 minutes ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

They are all enjoying the winning you plastic fan...😝

To think some of them seriously would like to see Tuchel fail just to prove that they were right.... That's not a Chelsea fan but rather a consumer in my eyes

[NikkiCFC 7,925]

@Jason

I know you said you don't expect this formation to be our main formation for the future but I'm not sure about that. 

One of the reasons Tuchel was appointed are definitely Werner and Havartz. So he will try to get best of them. It looks like with Timo is already working. 

As you also said many times Werner is not a winger or number 9 either. And he would have to play that in 433 or 4231. 

So 3421 or 3412 is the way we will go I think. 

Respected journalists reported that we are after Haaland so probably the plan is Kai playing behind him and Werner.  Or Werner and Kai can both play behind striker. Even Germany is using this formation because for these players it is the best by far. 

 

 

 

[Jase 43,479]

25 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

@Jason

I know you said you don't expect this formation to be our main formation for the future but I'm not sure about that. 

One of the reasons Tuchel was appointed are definitely Werner and Havartz. So he will try to get best of them. It looks like with Timo is already working. 

As you also said many times Werner is not a winger or number 9 either. And he would have to play that in 433 or 4231. 

So 3421 or 3412 is the way we will go I think. 

Respected journalists reported that we are after Haaland so probably the plan is Kai playing behind him and Werner.  Or Werner and Kai can both play behind striker. Even Germany is using this formation because for these players it is the best by far. 

Given Tuchel's history of playing different formations, I don't think the current back 3 will be our main formation. In the long term, I suspect we'll alternate between both the back 3 and 4. He likes his teams to be able to play different systems. One of the reasons I think Tuchel has gone with a back 3 is because he hasn't had the time to properly work with the players on different systems - he's picked one and just focused on it - and he's just gone with the safest - if you like - system to help us achieve what we want to achieve this season. As we saw under Lampard, there are numerous problems with the back 4 because of players' defensive deficiencies - e.g. the midfield. The back 3 currently offers a bit more defensive protection. Heck, we have players who look better in a back 3 and players who look better in a back 4. Playing the back 3 also means we have one less space for the attacking players. So, we need to find a good balance here. And worth remembering that Tuchel did switch to a back 4 in the second half against Barnsley. 

I did say Werner is not a winger or a #9 but IIRC, I believe he's played in a back 4 before at Leipzig. When we do play a back 4, I'd trust Tuchel more than Lampard to find a role that suits Werner. As for Haaland, well, I'd not get my hopes up at all on us signing him when the likes of Man City are also interested in him. We will also likely have to sell players to generate funds to have a chance of getting Haaland. 

[NikkiCFC 7,925]

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

Given Tuchel's history of playing different formations, I don't think the current back 3 will be our main formation. In the long term, I suspect we'll alternate between both the back 3 and 4. He likes his teams to be able to play different systems. One of the reasons I think Tuchel has gone with a back 3 is because he hasn't had the time to properly work with the players on different systems - he's picked one and just focused on it - and he's just gone with the safest - if you like - system to help us achieve what we want to achieve this season. As we saw under Lampard, there are numerous problems with the back 4 because of players' defensive deficiencies - e.g. the midfield. The back 3 currently offers a bit more defensive protection. Heck, we have players who look better in a back 3 and players who look better in a back 4. Playing the back 3 also means we have one less space for the attacking players. So, we need to find a good balance here. And worth remembering that Tuchel did switch to a back 4 in the second half against Barnsley. 

I did say Werner is not a winger or a #9 but IIRC, I believe he's played in a back 4 before at Leipzig. When we do play a back 4, I'd trust Tuchel more than Lampard to find a role that suits Werner. As for Haaland, well, I'd not get my hopes up at all on us signing him when the likes of Man City are also interested in him. We will also likely have to sell players to generate funds to have a chance of getting Haaland. 

But what is that role for Timo? 442?

Pep wanted to sign him so I'm curious what position he planned for him. Klopp as well. 

With Frank it was clear. He wanted Rice and that is it. But Tuchel doesn't. 

He already tried to sign Jorginho and Kante. Kova is playing very well. 

You may be right about safest option but if this is his ideal midfield what is stopping him from playing them in front of back 4 system? Let's say we get new top CB and new striker, do you think he will say: oh, now I can change system. 

We will most likely go for CB and striker. I don't see any new players that will make him change formation. 

He already said we will try to find a role for Chilwell. He played CHO and Pulisic as wing backs. As I said it suits most to German boys. So if it works well till the end of the season I can't see him changing it full time. Ofc sometimes we may change but this will be main I think. 

[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

But what is that role for Timo? 442?

Pep wanted to sign him so I'm curious what position he planned for him. Klopp as well. 

4-4-2, as the second striker behind the #9. 

And since Klopp wanted him as well, I'd imagine him in the left side in a 4-3-3 is a possibility but obviously, more of an inside forward than a winger.

7 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

He already tried to sign Jorginho and Kante. Kova is playing very well. 

You may be right about safest option but if this is his ideal midfield what is stopping him from playing them in front of back 4 system? Let's say we get new top CB and new striker, do you think he will say: oh, now I can change system. 

We will most likely go for CB and striker. I don't see any new players that will make him change formation. 

He already said we will try to find a role for Chilwell. He played CHO and Pulisic as wing backs. As I said it suits most to German boys. So if it works well till the end of the season I can't see him changing it full time. Ofc sometimes we may change but this will be main I think. 

Let's not get carried away with the Jorginho-Kovacic midfield combo just yet. Yes, on the ball, they can be good but at the same time, we also know they are far from best defensively, especially Jorginho. In a back 4, they just have to do as much work defensively as they do offensively. In a back 3/5, there's perhaps a bit less to worry defensively because we will have at least 3 defenders behind them. Also, we have a lot of tough teams coming up - Atletico, Man United, Everton, Liverpool etc. Let's see how Tuchel's midfield setup will fare against those lot.

Tuchel tried to sign Kante at PSG but the ironic thing is, he's barely played him so far. So... 🤷‍♂️

At the moment, it's hard to tell what exactly Tuchel wants because he's come in right in the middle of the season and has to work with what he has for now. At the same time, it also feels like he's trying to keep everyone happy for now. So he may make his decision regarding the players with the board once he sees enough of them come May. 

He's also played CHO further forward recently at Sheffield United and I don't think Werner and Havertz require the back 3 specifically to operate. 

And here's a breakdown of the formations and the number of times he used them in league games at Dortmund and PSG:

Dortmund

4-2-3-1 = 24

4-1-4-1 = 15

3-4-3 = 13

4-3-3 = 6

3-1-4-2 = 5

PSG

4-3-3 = 26

4-4-2 = 14

4-2-2-2 = 10

4-2-3-1 = 8

3-5-2 = 7

[Atomiswave 6,072]

10 hours ago, Azul said:

To think some of them seriously would like to see Tuchel fail just to prove that they were right.... That's not a Chelsea fan but rather a consumer in my eyes

Trust me this place was a heaven compared to shedend forum on that front. Still many over there where you can easily sense they are still TT out, calling us boring and its like Sariiball etc and what have you. Dont even mention twatter.

[Vesper 28,683]

23 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

Trust me this place was a heaven compared to shedend forum on that front. Still many over there where you can easily sense they are still TT out, calling us boring and its like Sariiball etc and what have you. Dont even mention twatter.

Fuck those plastic fucks. Cunts would rather lose Little England style than win with sophisticated Euro tactics.

I really like what I see of Tuchel so far. He is streets ahead of Lampard tactics-wise.

[Fernando 6,441]

Doing better then Lampard. 

Now we just need to wait in the summer if we start seeing Conte like attitude of bashing the club for transfer. Because that was his problem as well in the last 2 clubs. 

Which means that the 18 months is good, don't think he should be giving more time then that. 

[Jype 6,398]

2 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Now we just need to wait in the summer if we start seeing Conte like attitude of bashing the club for transfer. Because that was his problem as well in the last 2 clubs. 

Which means that the 18 months is good, don't think he should be giving more time then that. 

Would think they've already had some early discussions about summer 2021 transfers before Tuchel even signed on so don't think there will be problems that early. And playing Kepa last night was clearly done to get in Marina's good books because she's desperate for Kepa to be a success.

But yeah, the 18 month deal is still good either way. Getting top4 from difficult circumstances would certainly get him some good will with the board but continuing further than the initial 18 month deal will depend entirely on how he does next season. If he gets the team really challenging for the title next season (let alone winning something) he should definitely be allowed to continue. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

48 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Fuck those plastic fucks. Cunts would rather lose Little England style than win with sophisticated Euro tactics.

I really like what I see of Tuchel so far. He is streets ahead of Lampard tactics-wise.

For sure Vesper, I find it baffling, they are essentially wishing Chels to fail, bloody pathetic. Yup even the first match vs Wolves I could see he is much better than FL, way obvious now after 6-7 games. I know people talk about managerial bounce etc but this is more than that. We have a structure and we die by that setup. Look how we play off the ball.