Tammy Abraham

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

I totally accept that his performances have been poor. But let's not say that's been the case all season long. Against liverpool (super Cup) and United (4-0 first gw) losses, his overall play was quite good rather than his finishing. A lot of it has to do with confidence, and something which he will have to and he will learn with time.

That's the tricky thing here, no? Did Abraham perform well earlier this season because he is good and he is just having a dip in form? OR did he perform well earlier simply because he had one of those purple patches that every player has and his current performances are a reflection of his actual abilities as a player? The drop has been so stark that he can't even do the basics right. If you're struggling, you should always get back to basics. Do the simple things well and the rest will follow but he is not doing that and he is not helping himself or anyone with his bad body language.

11 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

Either we actually need to sell off more than half of our first team squad, or the fans are way off the mark. United were supposed to be so far off the mark. Yet one good signing has made even raahford look world class. That is what the signings are for. Increase the level of everyone around them. 

I have not mentioned anything about selling or loaning Abraham like others have but personally, I am yet to be convinced. Abraham simply needs to prove that he can play at the highest level.

And on Rashford, think that he has that WC in him. The one new signing didn't change anything. 

[Puliiszola 519]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

That's the tricky thing here, no? Did Abraham perform well earlier this season because he is good and he is just having a dip in form? OR did he perform well earlier simply because he had one of those purple patches that every player has and his current performances are a reflection of his actual abilities as a player? The drop has been so stark that he can't even do the basics right. If you're struggling, you should always get back to basics. Do the simple things well and the rest will follow but he is not doing that and he is not helping himself or anyone with his bad body language.

I have not mentioned anything about selling or loaning Abraham like others have but personally, I am yet to be convinced. Abraham simply needs to prove that he can play at the highest level.

And on Rashford, think that he has that WC in him. The one new signing didn't change anything. 

On rashford, 

16/17 - 5 goals, 32 appearances,

17/18 - 7 goals, 35 appearances

18/19 - 10 goals, 33 appearances.

At times he looked a better version of Welbeck. But I think again, it's the recency bias.

Regarding, Tammy, I watched him last season with villa or with Swansea. No way do his current performances match to what his real play and potential is. There is something very weird going on with him, but anyone who has watched him for the past 3 seasons, would watch that he is a much better player than the way he has been performing recently. 

And the same can be said for Reece too. He has been dreadful, but no way just it tell us about how well he played at villa or his true potential. I mean this was the same player that kept Zaha in his pocket. 

Anyways, no matter which side you lean on (they are crap who got lucky, or they are good who are playing very poorly), we can't be a 100% sure. Hence my argument of patience. These are young players touted to have great futures by multiple pundits, coaches and our own manager and legend. So the least we can do is not judge them by a 10 game window. In a season where we lost the best PL player and we're unable to replace him, where the fanbase was pretty convinced that top 4 was not even a reality. So all we need is a little perspective. Rewind a year and see how bad things were to where we are now. We are punching above our weight with the squad and specially the injuries. 

 

 

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

Let's remember Abraham is 22. He's been on loans to other teams for like 2-3 seasons.

Its very different to Billy gilmour and even CHO who only really had like 10 games last season.

Mount is a much better comparison by age and experience. Mount fucked up yesterday for the first goal. He's had a crazy dry patch for goals and assists this season. BUT the difference is we can see Mount's quality. He is our best presser by a country mile, he is improving his passing by coming deeper and since the restart we've seen him create chances by being direct with his dribbing and passing. We can see where he is and where he's likely to improve so we accept the bad with the good as he continues to learn.

Abraham at times has good finishing (still impressed by that left footed finish that didn't count against Leicester). But Ings scores goals like that, as do a few others in the PL that aren't good enough for a top 6 team. And that's Abraham's only quality. His movement is piss poor to the point Giroud (!) Out performed him in movement off the ball. He's rarely got control of his body, he doesn't seem to read what passes his team mates give, he's basically a poacher.

He has scored loads of goals but we do make a SHIT TON of chances. How many times am I gonna watch his throw himself at a pass across the six yard box to miss a tap in?

I think he'll improve as a goal scorer but he doesn't have enough tools to be a top striker. Darren Bent, Philips, Ings, Defoe, Craig Bellamy. All scored a good amount of goals every year. None good enough to play for the big boys.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

[NikkiCFC 8,286]

85 shots this season.

First in the league with big chances missed 22.

Also most offsides from top6 sides.

Apart from three games (round 3,4 and 5) very average goal scoring record.

16 goals look good on paper but I am sure Giroud and even Michy in his position would score even more.

 This season goal per minutes all comps:

Tammy - one goal every 175 minutes.

Michy goal per 109 minutes.

Giroud  goal per 169 minutes.

Giroud have by far best overall play.

Frank forced some of our youth this season but when he said he learned a lot after the last game he surely meant about Tammy among other things.

 

 

 

[Special Juan 28,094]

You can take figures out of the equation and simply add the lad is not good enough, get rid of him.

[Puliiszola 519]

5 minutes ago, Mana said:

If he wants to earn the best deal for himself, especially when it includes matching or better CHO’s salary, he should leave the club then. This is an act of primadonna and a mercenary behaviour.

And if you are going with what you’re saying, then yes Abraham should switch clubs to get the “20% raise”. If your statement just backfired on you, then yeah you need to think about what you’re saying next time LOL.

I never said these deserved the wages they are having. But two wrongs don’t make a right, and certainly giving Abraham a new contract with a strong wage, isn’t a right. We need better players, not keeping average players.

Why should he leave the club if he wants a better deal? What kind of logic is that? 😂

Tell me how much JT or Frank were earning. The rumors of JT keaving for city. Were they mercenaries too? 

"And if you are going with what you’re saying, then yes Abraham should switch clubs to get the “20% raise”. If your statement just backfired on you, then yeah you need to think about what you’re saying next time LOL."

What? Well leave it, don't care 😂😂

"I never said these deserved the wages they are having. But two wrongs don’t make a right, and certainly giving Abraham a new contract with a strong wage, isn’t a right. We need better players, not keeping average players."

These average squad players who are scoring 16 goals in a season are what is saving us millioms of bucks and helping us go for grade A talents like ziyech, werner and Kai. But keep ranting and raving. Not like that is gonna change the club's or Lampard's stance. Lol

 

[Puliiszola 519]

3 minutes ago, Mana said:

Because he hasn’t earned it? Have you been paying attention? 😂 That’s like me going to the boss and asking for a pay rise doing a halfass job.
Ok, nothing is stopping him from asking but I expect Chelsea to say no to his big wage demands.

You’re being stupid now if you are putting Abraham in the same bracket as JT and Lampard. Those two DESERVED their wage. Abraham since the turn of the year hasn’t, and instead of working harder to improve his game he’s asking for that sweet deal CHO got or better.

Actually most of that Ziyech/Werner money is from our sale of Hazard to put it right. Yes thanks for their average service, but it’s time to be back at the top - get rid. Bats, Drinkwater, Willian, Alonso, Emerson, Christensen from the top of my head.

It’s too late for CHO, and we have to pray this guy is worth the money but this club should NOT make the same mistake with Abraham.  
 

Giroud is 10x the player Abraham is at the moment and we can live with Giroud as our 2nd choice.

16 goals. 14 pl goals by a 22 year old striker. Lol. Yup sure he has not earned it.

 

No, I am putting the mercenary category on them, if you think that asking for more money is being a mercenary. Understand what is being said.

 

Hazard went for 100mil euros. 60 mil was already spent on pulisic. Where did the werner money come from? 90mil for havertz along with LB, GK, CB as expected. All of this is still hazard money?

No it's money saved by not buying a 30m back up to werner, saving 30 mil on like of Mount and Rlc, cho, James , tomori, Gilmour. That's where we are working so well.

[Puliiszola 519]

10 minutes ago, Mana said:

Yep he hasn’t. Abraham could be a one season wonder. 11 goals scored during his purple patch. Did Kane ask for a pay rise immediately after getting in the first team?

Eh no, asking just for more money is not a mercenary, that’s not being said here. This is about Abraham having the cheek, for his poor performances to ask for 130k or more, which sucks more money out of our club - which could lead to more performances like these.

As I said earlier I don’t mind if Abraham asked for a slight pay rise. Even if £100k I will swallow. But 130k or more? Feck out of here! We can use that money for things better. Improve first, then we will quickly renew your contract with a higher wage ASAP.

Slow down we haven’t got Havertz yet. It’s all rumours. We don’t know exactly how much money we have spent on Kai.

Also you do know Chelsea had money in the bank before the Hazard money right? (even though we suffered a major loss due to us being in the Europa League that year) We couldn’t buy anybody last season because of the ban. Don’t forget about our player loans plays a huge part of our income.

Well CHO not so much now with that big wage of his (and it’s only going to get way bigger in his next renewal)
 

Look, IF we get top 4, I like to thank them for their service. The players you just listed I don’t have any huge problems with (bar CHO) regarding money at the very least. They are good enough as backups anyway. 

But these players becoming our main players will not help us compete with Liverpool and City. Even United next season. We need BETTER.
 

Gilmour, Tomori and maybe RLC I am willing to give them another chance in the starting XI for next season.

"Yep he hasn’t. Abraham could be a one season wonder. 11 goals scored during his purple patch. Did Kane ask for a pay rise immediately after getting in the first team?"

You do know that the club themselves are looking to lockdown the youth players to long contracts. For eg James, mount, tomori, rlc, cho. So I don't think Tammy woke up and said, "I want a raise or I won't play". There is a negotiation going on, in which he is demanding. 

 

"Slow down we haven’t got Havertz yet. It’s all rumours. We don’t know exactly how much money we have spent on Kai."

The fact that we are even been linked with kai should be fact that we are willing to spend. And it's way beyonf rumors now.

"Also you do know Chelsea had money in the bank before the Hazard money right? (even though we suffered a major loss due to us being in the Europa League that year) We couldn’t buy anybody last season because of the ban. Don’t forget about our player loans plays a huge part of our income."

Lol. Are you serious? Did you read our financials of 18/19? We incurred a 100m loss. https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/chelsea-financial-results-2018-19-revenue-loss-champions-league

So all this, "we have hazard" money is literally wishy washy talk. So no, i don't know if we have "money in the bank" because our financial statements certainly say that we don't. 

 

 

"Look, IF we get top 4, I like to thank them for their service. The players you just listed I don’t have any huge problems with (bar CHO) regarding money at the very least. They are good enough as backups anyway. 

But these players becoming our main players will not help us compete with Liverpool and City. Even United next season. We need BETTER.
 

Gilmour, Tomori and maybe RLC I am willing to give them another chance in the starting XI for next season."

Obviously these youth players won't be our main players overnight. Mount has already shown he is quality so he is an exception. Gilmour will be quality, but that is why we have kante and kova ahead of him. RLC was a mainstay before his ACL and so far his sub performances have been good. Tomori should be one of our 2 main CBs since the rest are so inconsistent and dare j say "poor". Reece I trust to be a good deputy to azpi but slowly and surely show his class. But look at how much money we woukd be saving not buying the likes of michy (Tammy), bakayoko (rlc), Drinkwater (Gilmour), pedro (CHO), Barkley (mount), zappacosta (James), rudiger/zouma (tomori) just by giving these kids a shot who have shown they are more than capable of taking the next step.

You are worried abour 30kpw extra for Tammy which is 1.5m per year. 10 years of dexent service from him would be paying him 15 million extra. Damn bro, batshuayi cost 35m. Get the difference of how much the club is saving with these good (but still acceptably inconsistent) youth players. 

[Tomo 21,751]

5 hours ago, Mana said:

Yep he hasn’t. Abraham could be a one season wonder. 11 goals scored during his purple patch. Did Kane ask for a pay rise immediately after getting in the first team?

He signed a new contract in August 2014 (before his break through) and signed another one month's later after his breakthrough.

So yes, he did.

5 hours ago, Mana said:

Well CHO not so much now with that big wage of his (and it’s only going to get way bigger in his next renewal)

Hopefully, because that will mean he's on the right trajectory and realising his potential.

4 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

Accidental quote and can't remove it on my phone.

 

[Atomiswave 6,117]

All I know is he needs to up his overall game, he is becoming even more frustrating than Morata now. Still young and plenty time left but whether its here or somewhere like AV is up to him.

[Jype 6,398]

Tammy hasn't been good in 2020 but some of the reactions here are way over the top. He's shown more than enough this season to warrant another chance, even if it's not as first choice anymore due to Werner's arrival. 

In fact, I'd even go as far as to say not many teams have a second choice striker as good as Abraham. I'll give you City with Jesus but after that not really. Sure United can play Greenwood up front if Martial gets sidelined but that leaves their RW lacking, same for Spurs at LW if they have to play Son as a striker. Liverpool have Origi as their backup and he's not even better than Batshuayi.

Tammy's still young enough to learn and improve so I wouldn't give up on him just yet. It's true he has got the basics wrong many times lately but it's his first season as an actual Chelsea player and not just another name in the loan army so just like every other youngster in the squad I'm ready to give him the benefit of the doubt. Getting a top striker like Werner is crucial because it takes pressure off Abraham too.

That being said, I wouldn't give him a big contract just yet. He's still got three years of his current deal left if the rumors of the automatic one year extension are true, so the club should monitor his development next season and make him earn that contract on the pitch. If by the end of next season he hasn't shown any improvement he can still be sold for a decent amount of money later. 

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Jype said:

Tammy hasn't been good in 2020

Came across someone who mentioned this point somewhere and I thought it was good observation - a lot of our recent strikers have tended to go off the boil once the season hits January, after a good first half of the season. We saw it with Costa, Morata and now Abraham. It's almost like our strikers get cursed or something. 

[Jype 6,398]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

Came across someone who mentioned this point somewhere and I thought it was good observation - a lot of our recent strikers have tended to go off the boil once the season hits January, after a good first half of the season. We saw it with Costa, Morata and now Abraham. It's almost like our strikers get cursed or something. 

Could be a problem with squad balance too. Tammy started almost every game in the first half of the season (Giroud started one league match while Batshuayi played the EFL Cup games) and once he got injured he never really recovered his form. That's partly on Lampard too because he failed to utilize Giroud early on. 

I'd say Mount suffered from being overplayed too, his form also turned bad around the same time as Abraham having played pretty much every minute of the season. For Mount the 3 month break came at a good time because it allowed him to finally get some rest and he's looked more like himself again after the hiatus but Tammy's form hasn't been the same.

If we look at Costa and Morata, they also didn't have reliable backups and had to play every game when fit. Remy was a good rotation option for Costa but he was always injured so Diego never got any rest and Michy was/is... Well we all know the answer to that.

[Spike 12,049]

Not too keen on this bloke, really. 

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

On 13/07/2020 at 10:40 AM, Mana said:

Yep he hasn’t. Abraham could be a one season wonder. 11 goals scored during his purple patch. Did Kane ask for a pay rise immediately after getting in the first team?

Eh no, asking just for more money is not a mercenary, that’s not being said here. This is about Abraham having the cheek, for his poor performances to ask for 130k or more, which sucks more money out of our club - which could lead to more performances like these.

As I said earlier I don’t mind if Abraham asked for a slight pay rise. Even if £100k I will swallow. But 130k or more? Feck out of here! We can use that money for things better. Improve first, then we will quickly renew your contract with a higher wage ASAP.

Slow down we haven’t got Havertz yet. It’s all rumours. We don’t know exactly how much money we have spent on Kai.

Also you do know Chelsea had money in the bank before the Hazard money right? (even though we suffered a major loss due to us being in the Europa League that year) We couldn’t buy anybody last season because of the ban. Don’t forget about our player loans plays a huge part of our income.

Well CHO not so much now with that big wage of his (and it’s only going to get way bigger in his next renewal)
 

Look, IF we get top 4, I like to thank them for their service. The players you just listed I don’t have any huge problems with (bar CHO) regarding money at the very least. They are good enough as backups anyway. 

But these players becoming our main players will not help us compete with Liverpool and City. Even United next season. We need BETTER.
 

Gilmour, Tomori and maybe RLC I am willing to give them another chance in the starting XI for next season.

In the season Kane played regularly at Spurs they renewed his contract in February, on improved terms. They have had a wage structure in place which suited them better because they didnt have consist revenue and bonuses from the CL which they have done for a while now. 

Lets not forget that regardless of what you, me or anyone thinks of Tammy he is in a position where he can ask for these wages. Firstly because he will probably point to his goals this season and go well without them where would we be? Which for me they have been absolutely vital in some games and I would hate to think if we would even be in the top 6 or 8 without them because conversion has been a problem as much as anything this season and as badly as Tammy is playing and as good as Giroud is doing, Giroud has always been a streaky player throughout his career. You cannot count on him to score every week but then he will go on a run for 5 or 6 games before going back to the same inconsistent streaky form.

Secondly what he has done this season, particularly up to December warrants a similar deal to what Callum got based on the fact we gave in and gave somebody who really was in a position to negotiate favourably for himself in the long run despite having done nothing of real note. If you cannot see that is why Tammy is asking for a pay packet more in line with these figures and maybe other senior players around the club, then I do not know. Lets not forget the club went to him after the start of the season where he had been scoring for fun to discuss new terms, what did they expect? I dont get your point about you'd be willing to grudgingly accept giving him 100k a week but not 30k more? Its just incredibly stupid in my opinion because in terms of the club and the money they have another 30k a week is hardly a huge hit when you consider the wages Luiz and Gaz freed up leaving, what Willian and Pedro will free up leaving, what some of the loan players who are sold will free up.... its not a huge difference in the eyes of a club of Chelsea’s stature and even then this scenario is what we have created giving Hudson Odoi, Drinkwater, Barkley near 100k+ a week or Baba Rahman who’s played maybe 10 games in 5 years and is apparently on over 80k a week. You cannot say that Tammy hasnt done more than those guys in half a season than what they have done throughout their entire careers here?

Thirdly this wouldnt be Abrahams first contract extension here. It would be his 2nd. Since signing the first one he has scored 50 goals. It may be at different levels but the progressions clearly there and despite his struggles since 2020 started, lets be honest who hasnt struggled bar Pulisic, its not uncommon for younger CFs to struggle with consistency yet alone championship players who make the jump to a top 10 team, never mind a team competing for third or forth. He was never going to be a top top player in my eyes or he might never reach the levels of a Drogba or Aguero or Torres at Liverpool but he has surprised me this season at the beginning and will probably surprise us again next season at some point.

I mean I get the whole pay quality for quality but you also have to reward people who have been key to the cause when you review this season. Its like a business, do you think they dont give bonuses or pay rises to people who have done well over a period of time?

I get the clamouring for Kai Havertz but if you think that saving 30k a week over the duration of a 4 or 5 year contract is going to make a huge difference in the longrun when we have just given Werner a 200k a week deal, Ziyech a 100k a week deal, allegedly we will offer Havertz 200k a week as well... again, they may be quality players but whats to stop us saying 6 months down the line it was far too much either the fee or wages? Like with Kepa? Or Tammy wanting these wages? Or Callums wages that have added more expectation to what he should be capable of for me as it is a huge pay compared to Tomori, Mount, Abrahams current contract and a collection of first team players. Football fans are as fickle as anything else these days and it is true for all of us who support whatever team, it is the truth. Kepa could have had a blinder this season but someone would say he still isn’t worth 71mn. Someone could say CHO isnt worth that wages even if he scored 20 goals this season. 

As much as youd want to see more consistency from Mount, Tomori, James and Tammy lets not forget they were all Championship players last year. Its not their performances that have cost us as deeply this season as much as anything. The senior heads have been equally as inconsistent and the coaching hasnt been fantastic either in the defensive side of things.