The Conte Thread

[Jase 43,479]

47 minutes ago, Fernando said:

 

Bielsa but only during the interim spell as I admit that guy is too crazy for our board. 

If Mourinho is crazy with his ego and loses the dressing room, this guy just walks away for nothing after being mad at the board. Lol. 

And nope not Sampaoli because we already been there with Scolari. Sampaoli needs to show himself first like he is doing at Sevilla before taking any consideration on him. 

Now if I owned the club I would have gotten Bielsa and given him total control like Wenger. But for our club we can't do that and thus managers like Conte are the best option. 

Total control or not, I wouldn't want Bielsa or Sampaoli (even if he does well at Sevilla). Their style of play may be exciting but it's on the wrong side of extreme and they are super obsessive with it. You only have to look at what happened with Bielsa at Athletic Bilbao and Marseille. Played great stuff but conceded way too many goals and suffered a big collapse as the season went on.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

19 hours ago, petre.ispirescu said:

To judge Guardiola only on his Bundesliga performance is silly. Still, he is the first manager to win three consecutive league titles in the history of that competition. If it was that easy, why no one has done it before?

The only Champions League semi-final loss that can be atributed as his loss is the one against Atletico. In the other two he's had to do it without his best players. Against one of the best Real Madrid of the last decade and the Barcelona of an in form trio of Messi, Suarez and Neymar. No wonder that both of them have gone on to win the competition in the end. 

Baffles me how many are so quick to judge Guardiola, but praise the likes of Emery instead. Europa League titles does not make up for the fact that his away record is atrocious. Do you know how many matches Sevilla has won last season in the Spanish League? None! 19 matches - nine draws, ten defeats and no win. And it has not changed that much at Paris either. They have been gash away from home apart from an easy win at poor Caen. A dodgy win at Bastia and losses against Monaco and Toulouse shows he is nowhere near the manager some people make him to be. And they have not been great in their home matches either.

Ancelotti is a top manager, but this new Bayern does not look that dominant like it used to be with Guardiola. Late wins at Schalke and Hamburg, a loss against Atletico in Madrid and a draw at home against poor Koln shows you this. Guardiola's Bayern used to completely dominate opponents during August-November/December, but the new Bayern.. mehh... looks a lot more vulnerable.

Guardiola is not Messiah and he does not have to go to Port Vale and make them play like Messi and Suarez in their prime just to prove his worth. He is a manager doing his regular job and I don't see why he has to get a lot of stick for buying players to fit his tactics. In the end it is about putting his mark on the team with his very own players, not trying to make donkeys play the football they are not supposed to be playing. 

Guardiola is judged by the amount of players he's bought. But what about Mourinho? He's hit the 1 BILLION mark this summer on arrivals. The manager that has spent the most money in the history of this sport just to play medieval football. Unlike Guardiola, I'm pretty sure that Mourinho could play his trademark ugly football with the likes of Glenn Whelan and Harry Arter, too. No need to spend millions if you can't bring something new to the game.

Its not about not praising him. Or praising Emery. Its about his picture and what media throws to fans. 

They try to market Pep for something different from others. For someone who always promotes youth, brings best of the players, etc etc. Thing is he is exactly like others. He buys players, spends millions, gets rid of those who dont fit him one way or another, and also buys foreign talents, not growing club ones. That last one is most important. He bought Sane and Jesus, Stones. Why not groom city talent if he is such master? Back in bayern, bought Kimmich, Coman etc. Emery is Emery. People praise him for what he is. Good coach who won El trice. Thats it. Now he tried harder challenge and maybe he makes it. Pep is praised for many things he is not. Barca had ridiculously talented squad who started under Rijkard and Pep only improved it (still he bought Chigrinsky, thrown out Thiago to play Cesc and bunch of other blunders). Nevertheless credit for him and his golden period at barca.

Also its all fine to make your own style. But to bring whole group of spaniards to a german club and destroy their tradition? It works with team without tradition, but bayern? Nah. There were so many critics in germany over his work its unbelievable.

Normaly Heynkness bayern wouldnt perform forever, but it had core of what bayern in. Then Pep comes and replaces half of the squad, but most importantly dumps Kroos who should and would (under Heynkess) become their long term captain. And goes buy gazilion of foreign players instead of german ones. Not to mention he almost blocked Muller out of 11 to fit his needs. Basicaly he almost f*cked up the german core of that team to suit himself without thinking how it will work after he leaves. Then there is Gotze who was ultimate flop under Pep. He tried to utilize Lahm in midfield which didnt work and Low almost lost when he did same with Lahm in world cup for germany (then he switched back and they did much better).

I think Bayern will suffer the consequences of such work because half of current bayern squad went there for Pep and not to be part of bavarian culture and club (opposite of Heynkess). We can all see how different the players play now under Carlo (who is great coach afterall). Then again Neuer, Ribery etc. still perform well there. 

What Pep is TRULY different from other coaches is his style. He implements his style to every team. BUT where did this style bring him to? It got outdated in Barca. In bayern it never realy worked. Three semis, the one vs barca was his fault as was one vs atletico. Against real and barca he had few players missing, but partly it could be his fault for his training (since he took bayern, there were countless injuries which was unusal. So his style doesnt bring results either these days.

What makes of it then? He doesnt groom clubs youth. He doesnt win titles (lets be fair, bayern got him to get them CL period). He definately hurt Bayern club culture. With city that wont be a problem because they dont have true definition, but even here Hart, Kompany are almost as good as gone.

And his style is outdated. The only reason he is still there its because its nice to watch. Now everyone likes to watch good football, but how many trophies did Arsenal win recent 10 years?

Pep is great coach nevertheless, if you bring him neutral club, he will install his phylosophy there. To every player and board and fan. But the results against top dogs are all that matter when we talk about best in europe. And Pep fails that. Maybe city will be different, but I somehow doubt it. He will land Real, Barca again, Aguero, Kdb, Silva get often injured and there is big chance they miss the games ( ) and he will lose. Im almost certain of it. He cant adopt to the situation. He cant sit back and defend, play on counter.

Bonucci is actualy in similar boat like Pep when comes to media. I hear he is the best italian defender, but thats not true. Best out and out defender is for a while now Barzagli. But Bonucci is a more classy version of a defender, and media just grabs it over and over, throwing out he is the best defender out there. Not true. Still world class CB tho.

I respect Pep actualy, I see him perfect for team without real culture, he can develop players and next manager adjusts them and wins titles. But for established teams like bayern, pep is a no-go. Or if you want CL. What I dont like about him is how he sells himself to media and fans.

The media makes him like porsche 918 while he is a P1 if you know what I mean.

[Fernando 6,585]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Total control or not, I wouldn't want Bielsa or Sampaoli (even if he does well at Sevilla). Their style of play may be exciting but it's on the wrong side of extreme and they are super obsessive with it. You only have to look at what happened with Bielsa at Athletic Bilbao and Marseille. Played great stuff but conceded way too many goals and suffered a big collapse as the season went on.

What he did at those teams just makes me wonder if he had bigger resources how he would fare? 

Like someone said that Mourinho has big money in his squad that managed closed to 1 billion. I wonder how Bielsa would have done in a matter of 10 years with that amount? 

I guess Barcelona are that, since Pep is a big admired of Bielsa as well. He learned a lot from him.....amazingly Poch is also from the school. But Pochetino seems the most balance out all of them. Does not have a super obsessive view with attacking futbol as you mentioned. 

Anyhow they still produced some memorable games that you never forget. Like I remember the game Bilbao played against United in the EL back then. It was a thing of beauty. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

On 15/10/2016 at 1:58 AM, Heisenberg said:

Misses it on the very top ? He is the manager that won the most titles since he begun managing, no one is on top of him.He lost CL semi finals everytime, not being knocked out on earlier stage, its really difficult to win a CL semi final if we forgot that.

He brough youth only at Barça, at Bayern it wasnt needed, what was needed were titles, continous success, and Pep gave them that, the fact that we are judging him on how much CL he lost justifies how high his standards are, as a club we won 1 CL and its considered as the greatest achievement ever made by the club, he won 2 and lost only semi finals.

Pep is better at marketing ? I think this insult the man's daily work, thats non sense to me.

At barca he had fantastic generation. Many players were brought earlier before him by Rijkard. Two players that Pep truly had were Bojan and Thiago. One floped, other was benched for Cesc by Pep himself. Bartra and others never worked out. Wonder why? If Pep was that great he would make them work. That barca team wasnt just Pep thing. They were exceptional players, majority discovered by Rijkard. And further developed by Pep. Enrique has done brilliantly there too, because like Pep he has amazing team. 

Bayern? To start, Bayern has philosophy of having german core and playing direct football. Pep did the opposite. Considering Bayern is institution and Pep is just a man, sooner or later they will go back to their german philosophy. However Pep brought dozen players that dont fit that and got rid of few like Kroos and almost Muller. Thats not what I see as process for the future. It will take bayern some time to go back. 

Perhaps he made them play better to the eye (I dont realy fancy his style of endless passing tho), but got no results. Three buli in a row were kinda expected, considering they bought from their only rival two of best players haha.

He had Bayern. In three years there is no excuse not to reach final at least once. We are talking about Bayern who was on par with Barca and Real. Even Atletico managed to reach cl final twice in three years. 

He made dozen mistakes in past three CLs. Mou did it too vs atletico and was torn to pieces that he was outclassed. Meanwhile Pep? Three losses...well it happens right? We play fancy football, catching to the eye of neutral and we cant get outdated. 

Unless whole football world goes by Pep philosophy, he will get beaten one way or the other. Ajax had that great team, won all, filled europe with philosophy,  then things went different, more balanced way. Then it was barca with pep. But that time is over. He is without CL for 5 years. For manager who got so many trophies for bayern, one has to wonder was CL simply too hard or is buli too easy? 

Pep revolutionised football, and certain things will stick to what modern football is (like ball playing CBs), but Pep is too heavy on his style. Its all fine to play flowing football, balanced, but what Pep tries is domination and today top teams will expose him because he cant adopt and they can.

From our perspective, I guess he would make us more balanced because we arw mess (tho, would you hire him in 2005?) But when he leaves? England has its own philosophy. Thats why Leicester won it last year and Arsenal didnt in 10 years. Because nice football and passing and possesion mean shit when it comes to results. You will get teams who will press you and score 1 goal even if you had 10% possesion whole game. And thats whats all about. Problem with Pep is he cant adopt. He is now in england. He is lucky to have weak Chelsea, United for opponents but even this way he will probably get punished on few ocassions. 

German league was flat track bully for Pep. English doesnt look much better, but still more competitive.

I think it all comes down to perspective. Some will rate Pep for style, some old Mou for efficiency. Happy medium ala Ancelotti is probably the best. Then there was Saf.

Once it was Cruyff, there was Mou with his buses, then Pep. It all goes out once...I just think Pep marketing works well enough to cover all the poor results with fancy stats and style.

[sir_volrath 61]

Have you looked at Bayern post Pep? They look like a shadow of their former selves.

[Antonio8 736]

terrible chelsea trained by a complete idiot is 3 points from the incredible spectacular city trained by jesus christ..

you're so ridicolous..

come on conte, you're the truth--..

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Someone made this comment and I agree

 

Conte could be perfect for Chelsea. Abramovich has craved sexy football for so long, and he is finally getting it with Antonio Conte. We've been super dominant in 4 out of 10 games we've played this season (Bristol, Burnley and Leicester twice) and only against arsenal we didn't score (and batshuayi missed a one on one)

He’s got the winning mentality of pre Madrid Mourinho, without any of the brashness that follows years of success. He’s a very astute tactician, he finds the best system for his players (Hazard’s new role, Moses, Azpi, Luiz’s anchor/distributor role), gives them confidence (Cahill, Matic) and he’s pragmatic…like with the Chalobae sub to solidify the midfield in response to the Slimani, Mahrez substitutions. He’s also big on physicality and work-rate, standing together as a team, and today when he refused to sub out Costa despite his tantrum, it showed that he was telling Costa..‘I want you to control yourself, and I’m sure you can..without getting a card. Show them YOU are in control.’
I’m sure he’s even earned Costa’s begrudging respect today.
I think we are witnessing the birth of a cough….dynasty under Conte. Get hyped!
We Are Chelsea!!! KTBFFH!

[Milan 17,955]

 

[Styles 9,790]

Conte deserves some praise for some of the decisions he has made over the last two games.

Let's just hope he continues to try new things & use different players and doesn't revert to some of the bad decisions from earlier in the season.

Azpi at RB for example is HUGE. That's the perfect position for him. If we play 3 at the back and Azpi is used as one of the CBs then that has changed things quite dramatically.

Moses at RWB is another.

[-Kaplan- 410]

I don't get the "he had a good generation" argument. 

 

McClaren had the "golden generation" of English players, and look what he did with them, fuck all. He didn't even qualify for the Euros. 

[Blue Armour 4,436]

9 hours ago, Styles said:

Conte deserves some praise for some of the decisions he has made over the last two games.

Let's just hope he continues to try new things & use different players and doesn't revert to some of the bad decisions from earlier in the season.

Azpi at RB for example is HUGE. That's the perfect position for him. If we play 3 at the back and Azpi is used as one of the CBs then that has changed things quite dramatically.

Moses at RWB is another.

And moving Kante from CDM to B2B

[Fernando 6,585]

5 hours ago, -Kaplan- said:

I don't get the "he had a good generation" argument. 

 

McClaren had the "golden generation" of English players, and look what he did with them, fuck all. He didn't even qualify for the Euros. 

Yeah look at how Mourinho handle KDB. It's fair to say if he had Messi when younger he wouldn't have made it. 

So all that talk about Pep having that good generation is hogwash. He brought the best of those players and push them to the next level. 

[Leif 6,006]

I used to think it was fantasy stuff what I kept asking for, Azpi at centre back, Moses as a wing back. It was so obvious from both of their first seasons with us. I might just go get some coaching badges to be honest.

[Miguelito 459]

For me, the most important he has done for us is that he has us playing well (and dominating at times), without Hazard being unreal. 

By that I mean there have been many times in the past 2-3 years where we played really good stuff, but it almost always coincided with Eden being unplayable on that day. And then the next game, if Eden didn't play as well, we didn't play as well as a team. It seemed to rely way to heavily on his (or a couple others) performances. Now we aren't just playing well individually, but as a team.

One big difference I notice is that you can tell he has instructed us to play much quicker. There's been a large improvement in the number of first time passes and one or two touch then pass. We look to go out wide very early and switch sides of the field much quicker than before. This in turn stretches the field and opens up spaces for attacks. It's clear that this is growing process in this regard. You can tell we are still getting used to doing this and some struggle with the quick passing (matic particularly). This will take at least a season to really be engraved in their natural play. 

It seems we aren't as reliant on individual brilliance or a player having to take over a game for us to dominate. We actually look like we have a bit of a game plan attacking-wise. I know it's still early days and we have really struggled against bigger teams, but long may this improvement continue.

[Johnnyeye 7,501]

i read this somewhere, Kennedy and Traore as wing backs in Conte´s 3-4-3 system one day maybe, what do you think?

 

                                       Courtois/ Begovic

                          Azpi           Zouma/Terry           Luiz

Traore/Moses                                                        Kennedy/Alonso

                           Matic/ L. Cheek         Kante / Chalobah

Moses/ William/Traore                                               Hazard / Pedro / Kennedy

                                   Costa / Batshuayi /Solanke

                            

still missing more players, but it´s rotation wise, for cup games. etc. to take the work load off some starters.