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The Conte Thread


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  On 06/04/2016 at 10:00, DYC. said:

Same here, Tomo. I think I used to be what was considered negative in the past (though I wouldn't completely agree with that, I think I've always been a realist and still am) but I don't think I was ever this bad. This is too much even for me. So much negativity, moaning and petty and idiotic fights. It's always been a strong feature on TC but the balance used to be a lot better a few years back. It's shifted too much in the other direction. That's what I feel anyway. And now I feel like I'm quite positive and calm and arguably overly optimistic.

Anyway, back to Conte. How long he lasts depends on the job he does. He does an abysmal job and he's gone within half a season. He does a poor a job and he has 18 months max. Decent job, two seasons. Good job, two/three seasons. Great job, three+ seasons. Every time a new manager is appointed it's assumed he'll get 'time to learn and build'. I doubt that's the case. Either do well or go away. That's Chelsea.

Manager appointments don't excite me (anymore). Think the last one was AVB. I so badly wanted him to be a great succes as I loved his style.

Don't know what to expect really but as always I hope for the best. I like the fact that he's tactically flexible and that Juve players still praise him even after he left. That's a very good sign.

I just hope he doesn't go shopping in the Serie A though. That would be a mistake in my eyes. Serie A and PL isn't a good marriage. A lot of failed, underwhelming or decent at best imports. Not saying every Serie A import is guaranteed to flop or underwhelm but it's important to be careful. La Liga and Ligue 1 signings adapt a lot quicker and usually do as well as they did before and a lot of players do an even better job.

And then there's the Euro 2016 distraction. Wonder how that will work with incoming and outgoing transfers and pre-season. I don't know... I worry about that a bit. From the outside it looks like quite the conumdrum.

If he does well, Chelsea does well so good luck to him. Decent football and a top 4 finish in his first season and I'm a happy camper.

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I can take constructive criticism and I'm not immune to the odd moan myself (Torres) but sometimes I wonder that some just always want the opposite of what is currently happening, take the Lampard situation in 2012 for example,when he was not getting on with AVB there were active calls for ruthless action to be taken against him, months later it looked like exactly that was going to happen, and it was "how can the board disrespect a legend", now I know there were probably some people on either one side of the fence or the other, but there was too big a group moaning about both for their not to be some comical backtracking there somewhere, sometimes I wish I had more time on my hands (or better memory) so I could keep track and catch the culprits out.

And I might be in an elite group but I back the sacking culture, so many more manager's keep their jobs when they don't deserve too as opposed to one's who get sacked harshly, United for example are a club almost obsessed with giving manager's time, I know it worked with Ferguson but that was a different time, Moyes got months longer than he should have and word is they are letting LVG see out the last year of his contract, just how?

And with all of Roman's sackings, not once have I felt he pulled the plug when we were onto something great, every time there was loads of very good reason's for sackings and not just due to trophies, that's why I firmly believe Antonio will keep his job for aslong as he showing he is taking us in a good direction and we are progressing.

Usually under these circumstances I wouldn't think anything other than a return to top 4 is possible, but the way Conte helped Juve rise again makes me think he could do similar here, especially given despite this season we still have a squad of title winners (and it's not like 10/11 when they all hit father time, these are all still at a relatively good age) and if as rumoured we add with the likes of Radja, Kante a new centre back and hopefully bring Andreas back im hopeful he can do it again, after all power in the middle and proactiv centre halfs was our weakness when we won the title last season, so if we can add that I'd be very hopeful, a year late but better late than never.

Although having said that getting back in top 4 is crucial, so I wouldn't complain if that's "all" we do either.

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  On 05/04/2016 at 16:23, CHOULO19 said:

There is probably some sort of contractual/legal difference. And of course there is a difference, but to act like the difference is so common and everyone knows exactly what exact role each term refers to is just hilarious. The only people who actually know in this particular case are the board, Conte and his agent. 

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Yeah I mean of course it's nit-picking somewhat. But the fact it was picked up on by a lot of people is telling, there was no need for it granted :lol:. We'll have to wait and see to be honest, in any case it's of little importance when it's same shit, different day. Give us a good 6-36 months, if you can Antonio!

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  On 06/04/2016 at 14:19, LDN Blue said:

Yeah I mean of course it's nit-picking somewhat. But the fact it was picked up on by a lot of people is telling, there was no need for it granted :lol:. We'll have to wait and see to be honest, in any case it's of little importance when it's same shit, different day. Give us a good 6-36 months, if you can Antonio!

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better be more than 6 months bro............ :(

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  On 06/04/2016 at 12:54, Tomo said:

I can take constructive criticism and I'm not immune to the odd moan myself (Torres) but sometimes I wonder that some just always want the opposite of what is currently happening, take the Lampard situation in 2012 for example,when he was not getting on with AVB there were active calls for ruthless action to be taken against him, months later it looked like exactly that was going to happen, and it was "how can the board disrespect a legend", now I know there were probably some people on either one side of the fence or the other, but there was too big a group moaning about both for their not to be some comical backtracking there somewhere, sometimes I wish I had more time on my hands (or better memory) so I could keep track and catch the culprits out.

And I might be in an elite group but I back the sacking culture, so many more manager's keep their jobs when they don't deserve too as opposed to one's who get sacked harshly, United for example are a club almost obsessed with giving manager's time, I know it worked with Ferguson but that was a different time, Moyes got months longer than he should have and word is they are letting LVG see out the last year of his contract, just how?

And with all of Roman's sackings, not once have I felt he pulled the plug when we were onto something great, every time there was loads of very good reason's for sackings and not just due to trophies, that's why I firmly believe Antonio will keep his job for aslong as he showing he is taking us in a good direction and we are progressing.

Usually under these circumstances I wouldn't think anything other than a return to top 4 is possible, but the way Conte helped Juve rise again makes me think he could do similar here, especially given despite this season we still have a squad of title winners (and it's not like 10/11 when they all hit father time, these are all still at a relatively good age) and if as rumoured we add with the likes of Radja, Kante a new centre back and hopefully bring Andreas back im hopeful he can do it again, after all power in the middle and proactiv centre halfs was our weakness when we won the title last season, so if we can add that I'd be very hopeful, a year late but better late than never.

Although having said that getting back in top 4 is crucial, so I wouldn't complain if that's "all" we do either.

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Agree with the first part.

As for the sackings, you have a point. But if what you say is true, I blame those for appointing all those supposed wrong managers in the first place. How often are you allowed to pick a manager only to get rid of him within a season? That's terrible management from those in charge.

The difference between Chelsea's current situation and Juve back then is the established elite. Italian sides can't seem to stay on top, creating a merry-go-round at the top. It's easier for an almighty leap to occur in those conditions. Same goes for Dortmund. The likes of Schalke, Gladbach and even Wolfsburg can finish in the top 4 one season and finish outside the top 4 the very next season. Chelsea have to deal with the Manc clubs, Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool. Leicester and WHU can easily drop so that's a good thing for us. But will those sides I mentioned allow Chelsea to finish above them just like that? Easier said than done imo. This is a fluke season but they have the opportunity to build and improve, especially Spurs.

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  On 06/04/2016 at 16:08, DYC. said:

What's with all this 'he better get the players he wants talk and full control' talk btw. If he didn't agree with anything that comes with the job, he wouldn't have signed the contract. Whatever happens this summer (and in the future), he agreed with it.

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The thing is, I do now agree managers (or head coaches lol) shouldn't ever be given "full control" of their transfers. Not when managerial appointments go in such a merry-go-round. Obviously some targets are less attainable than others, financial implications etc.

All we really can hope for is honest communication and dialogue between Conte and the higher ups. If they can't get plan A is plan B good enough for Conte and and from a financial sense. Such is the 'business' that's football lol. 

  On 06/04/2016 at 15:59, Pizy said:

Don't really think there's anything he could do that would get him sacked within his first 6 months to 1 year unless he has us in the bottom 3. There's no chance of that happening. Like I predicted yesterday, he'll get 2 summer transfer windows to shape his team.

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2 summer windows? That's just as unlikely as you claim for him to be sacked in 6 months. Look how many have come under a cloud of high expectations and just haven't panned out. Scolari & AVB are ever so present in my mind right now. 

As the poll says, "..because long term is overrated'. Just build a team that not only is beneficial now but in the future, so should we have to sack Conte we won't need to always 'overhaul'. 

But let me stress, I don't expect him to leave us in 6 months as a doubt on his ability.. More so on the temperament of our board. How tolerable are they that when we do go through a slump, which every team does.

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  On 06/04/2016 at 15:59, Pizy said:

Don't really think there's anything he could do that would get him sacked within his first 6 months to 1 year unless he has us in the bottom 3. There's no chance of that happening. Like I predicted yesterday, he'll get 2 summer transfer windows to shape his team.

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Exactly. People fearing his sack is unwarranted. 

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  On 06/04/2016 at 16:28, DYC. said:

Imagine managers with full control in this environment. Conte players now, sell Conte players and add Simeone players later, sell Simeone players and add Guardiola players after that for example. If you can't stick to a manager, Chelsea need their own way of doing things. You'll only end up lacking any kind of identity if you don't, turning into a mess.

Of course. Don't think there's any other way.

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But on that side we then have a generic umbrella term of "emenalo player" defined by "those with ability, dismissed on a season of ruin". But let's not open that can of worms here.

--

Incidentally, do you think he'll have any bearing on our academy? Talking to someone the other day, they reckon the reason we'll fail to utilise people like Ruben is because of this infatuation with 4-2-3-1 that's become the soul of this team for the last 5-6 years! Taught from u10s right the way up to the first team. Young players would fail to adapt. I don't think we'd ever train someone like Kenedy to be how he is if he was an u18 academy player, would we?

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I doubt that his job will be ever under the threat when Chelsea is around the top 4. I put an interview with Emenalo in his thread earlier in the year, he said that top4 should now be considered a trophy and since big Mike is mastermind behind everything, you should pay attention to him ! Voice of the reason, voice of Chelsea. Michael Emenalo.

So yeah, any talk that if Conte won't be challenging for trophy he will be axed is unfounded and far-fetched. Considering that Chelsea will start with this new stadium not long from now, top 4 is THE TARGET.

Oh btw, Chelsea starts pre-season trainings in the first/second Monday of July from what I checked in the last few years, that should be 4th of July 2016 this year considering that Premier League begins on 13th of August 2016. And UEFA Euro 2016 ends on 10th July 2016. So Conte should be available for almost whole pre-season in worst case scenario. And almost surely he will be behind pre-season training planning, regardless when he joins.

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  On 06/04/2016 at 16:03, DYC. said:

Agree with the first part.

As for the sackings, you have a point. But if what you say is true, I blame those for appointing all those supposed wrong managers in the first place. How often are you allowed to pick a manager only to get rid of him within a season? That's terrible management from those in charge.

The difference between Chelsea's current situation and Juve back then is the established elite. Italian sides can't seem to stay on top, creating a merry-go-round at the top. It's easier for an almighty leap to occur in those conditions. Same goes for Dortmund. The likes of Schalke, Gladbach and even Wolfsburg can finish in the top 4 one season and finish outside the top 4 the very next season. Chelsea have to deal with the Manc clubs, Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool. Leicester and WHU can easily drop so that's a good thing for us. But will those sides I mentioned allow Chelsea to finish above them just like that? Easier said than done imo. This is a fluke season but they have the opportunity to build and improve, especially Spurs.

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Thats a fair point, but on the other hand you can sack a manager and the appointment was correct, for example Ancelotti, did a good job to bring the double here but then in the second season he was horrible, he had nothing up his sleeve tactically when things were going wrong and kept playing the same tired players and system, as much as Jose fucked up this season he atleast tried to make changes even if they didn't work atall, so in that sense you could say good appointment but things went stale and we needed a change.

Also their is at times politics involved, Di Matteo for example, as much as Munich was a great story, none of the managerial skills Robbie used for that run would be required/work in the full time job, I honestly believe Roman wanted to swap Robbie for Rafa that summer but didn't want to ruin our summer in the sun after Munich (I mean could you imagine if he made that change shortly after Munich, full scale riots would have been an understatement) gave him the full time job knowing he had to be amazing to stay and well he wasn't.

In some ways England is in a bit of a state which is why the opening has been created for Leicester and Spurs this season, United have a lot of work to do, Arsenal with Wenger will be same old, Liverpool need twice as big an overhaul as we do and looking at Dortmund this season I'm starting to think Klopp is overrated, Spurs will depend on if they hold onto Poch and its a Shame City have bagged Pep as they were heading for a tough few years.

It won't be easy but if we get this summer window right and hit the ground running, I wouldn't bet against us.

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