The Mourinho Thread

[The Skipper 20,593]

  On 24/04/2014 at 07:39, The Mak said:

I'm not so sure. Atletico are basically us with a decent striker but, like us, they still look clueless without space to play. I think Mourinho was so conservative because he knew that if we did to Atletico what the small teams do to us, they would not score.

More importantly, committing more men forward and/or having the likes of Schurrle on instead of Ramires would've dramatically increased the chances of us getting into a 'you attack, we attack situation'. If that happened, we would inevitable lose due to their advantage of Costa.

While I don't 100% agree with what Mourinho did, I understand it completely.

We're basically saying the same thing. I understand what he did as well and certain aspects of how we played were fine, but even the smaller PL teams commit more men forward than we did against them. Honestly, committing 3 or 4 men forward on the counter instead of 2 doesn't suddenly make us completely susceptible at the back. We'd still have 7/6 men behind the ball which is fine.

You seriously don't need 10 men behind the ball for the majority of the game against Atletico.

[The Skipper 20,593]

  On 24/04/2014 at 07:43, The only place to be said:

But wouldn't a change in tactics have possibly led to Atletico finding it easier to break us down?

It's barely a change of tactic, it's simply about committing more men forward when we get the ball.

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Our counter was led by Torres and our player of the season was injured. In the return leg there's a chance that both Hazard and Eto'o are back. Why risk it?

Our counter was led by Torres (who did a decent job considering he had no one else up there with him) because decent counter attacking players like Schurrle and Oscar were left on the bench. It's hardly risking the tie committing a few more men going forward on the counter attack to increase the chances of grabbing an away goal. This does not translate into us going for an all-out attacking gung ho approach.

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Maybe Jose sees a link between the way a team defends and the way it transitions into attack?

I think everyone does, but you seriously have to be kidding yourself if you think we'd be so defensively vulnerable if we committed a couple more men going forward on the counter attack. Our transition into attack was poor because of that very reason.

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PSG were also supposed to score against us if I remember correctly. Contrary to popular belief amongst some on here, Jose is a pretty good coach. It's not just the home crowd, it's the possibility of having some of our better players back and the expectation that Atletico might adjust their tactics as well. I guarantee that if we had drawn the first leg 0-0 then certain people would be writing our obituaries already, but the fact is we're very much still in this tie despite having Jose in charge.

And they nearly did, Cavani had a golden chance but lucky for us he didn't put it away and we punished him. I didn't dispute the fact that we're in this tie, of course we are, if you read what I said again I said that people are overstating the advantage we have. It's still advantage us, but only slightly.

Plus, Atletico aren't PSG. They are far more adept at sitting deep, defending and hitting teams on the counter, and they'll punish us for it too. Just to reiterate, as I said above, it is advantage Chelsea due to us obviously getting back some key players but it's slight.

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If you actually want to criticise the CL record of a guy who has been in more semi-finals than anyone else and has the chance to become the first guy in history to win 3 of the fuckers then maybe you've run out of things to say.

Maybe it's time to learn Spanish, sign up to the Atletico forum and pronounce how the problem all season has been an inability to break down teams who defend (who knew??).

I'm not criticising him, merely stating facts. If you think that winning only 2 out of 7 CL semi final ties in total means that he's done a good job in these circumstances then yes, I have run out of things to say.

[The only place to be 11,313]

  On 24/04/2014 at 07:58, The Skipper said:

It's barely a change of tactic, it's simply about committing more men forward when we get the ball.

Right....but wouldn't some of those same players be involved in defending as well?? Or are we going to call a timeout when we lose possession and bring on the defensive unit?

  On 24/04/2014 at 07:58, The Skipper said:

Our counter was led by Torres (who did a decent job considering he had no one else up there with him) because decent counter attacking players like Schurrle and Oscar were left on the bench. It's hardly risking the tie committing a few more men going forward on the counter attack to increase the chances of grabbing an away goal. This does not translate into us going for an all-out attacking gung ho approach.

Decent. Not good, not excellent....decent. OK.

I'm not sure Oscar has even been a decent counter-attacking threat since the game away to Southampton on January 1st.

  On 24/04/2014 at 07:58, The Skipper said:

I think everyone does, but you seriously have to be kidding yourself if you think we'd be so defensively vulnerable if we committed a couple more men going forward on the counter attack. Our transition into attack was poor because of that very reason.

I think the risk simply wasn't worth it, especially when you lose your first-choice keeper and then your defensive lynchpin and also have a second leg to play. You're also looking at the possibility of a player on a yellow card being slightly out of position and having to make a tackle whilst running back towards goal. Again, why risk it?

  On 24/04/2014 at 07:58, The Skipper said:

And they nearly did, Cavani had a golden chance but lucky for us he didn't put it away and we punished him. I didn't dispute the fact that we're in this tie, of course we are, if you read what I said again I said that people are overstating the advantage we have. It's still advantage us, but only slightly.

Plus, Atletico aren't PSG. They are far more adept at sitting deep, defending and hitting teams on the counter, and they'll punish us for it too. Just to reiterate, as I said above, it is advantage Chelsea due to us obviously getting back some key players but it's slight.

I could give a fuck about the advantage we might have when the most important thing is that we're not at a disadvantage going into it.

Someone once said that Atletico are more adept at sitting deep, defending and hitting teams on the counter....and they'll punish us for it too. Well if we're chasing the game in the second leg from the off surely that plays into their hands doesn't it? As it is both teams probably need to score, and we'll hopefully have some key attacking pieces back who were missing in the first leg.

But it's good to know we're still in the tie. I'll go and get my shirt off the barbie.

  On 24/04/2014 at 07:58, The Skipper said:

I'm not criticising him, merely stating facts. If you think that winning only 2 out of 7 CL semi final ties in total means that he's done a good job in these circumstances then yes, I have run out of things to say.

Do you know how many teams have won CLs back to back? None.

It's actually quite a difficult trophy to win, and sometimes quality and skill means nothing. I've even heard of some teams fluking their way to a victory in the competition.

But Jose has been in the last five CL semis. He's actually got there more than anyone else and his record is comparable to Fergie's in terms of actually going through. You may think you're 'stating facts' (which of course absolves you of actually having to say anything vaguely committal) but what you're actually doing is regurgitating statistics without applying any context or meaning to them.

In light of that I find much to agree with in your final sentiment.

[bushman 2,043]

To those who think Jose should tire his squad ahead of the Wednesday important game by playing his aces in this meaningless game against liverscums.

The Guardian is reporting that Chelsea has given Jose the green light to field a completely changed line-up.

Jose´s plans were discussed with all & given the all-clear by owner Roman. Fuck you Liverpoops.

[DanAdibi! 106]

  On 24/04/2014 at 04:13, Madmax said:

Pssh, Chelsea are ruining football, didn't you get the memo? Keep up, man.

Eye bleeding performance from Jose. Master class from Carlo. Media ~ never fail to amaze me.

[Special Juan 27,622]

Defend like that in the second leg and we go through, because we will score at home.

[bushman 2,043]

  On 24/04/2014 at 08:37, Special Juan said:

Defend like that in the second leg and we go through, because we will score at home.

I do not think Jose will open it much, but I believe Hazard, Samuel are playing & these two will be the difference.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 24/04/2014 at 08:37, Special Juan said:

Defend like that in the second leg and we go through, because we will score at home.

I think whoever gets the first goal at the Bridge goes through. If we get it, I'm confident we can keep them out for as long as we want, but if they get it, I don't think we have enough power up front to get two goals against their defense. Honestly, it would be torture, but I can see this going to pens.

[Special Juan 27,622]

  On 24/04/2014 at 09:02, CHOULO19 said:

I think whoever gets the first goal at the Bridge goes through. If we get it, I'm confident we can keep them out for as long as we want, but if they get it, I don't think we have enough power up front to get two goals against their defense. Honestly, it would be torture, but I can see this going to pens.

I'm really confident, I always am on big nights when we know what we have to do. The Jose factor, our attitude and the crowd being right behind the team tells me it will be our night.

[Stats 7,084]

  On 24/04/2014 at 08:13, bushman said:

To those who think Jose should tire his squad ahead of the Wednesday important game by playing his aces in this meaningless game against liverscums.

The Guardian is reporting that Chelsea has given Jose the green light to field a completely changed line-up.

Jose´s plans were discussed with all & given the all-clear by owner Roman. Fuck you Liverpoops.

It is not meaningless. It may seem unrealistic but would you have predicted City to drop points against Sunderland? I don't think so. They have a dfficult game against Palace without Toure and possibly Silva. They can drop points there and at Everton. Opens the gateway for us. Now if we beat Liverpool 2 points behind and they have to go to Palace and from what I have seen Liverpool struggle against Palace. They certaintly will not find it easy to go to Selhurst Park and win. We should not give up. While we are in we are in it. I doubt we will do it but there is a chance and knowing the PL anything can prove possible until the final game.

[bushman 2,043]

  On 24/04/2014 at 09:05, Stats said:

It is not meaningless. It may seem unrealistic but would you have predicted City to drop points against Sunderland? I don't think so. They have a dfficult game against Palace without Toure and possibly Silva. They can drop points there and at Everton. Opens the gateway for us. Now if we beat Liverpool 2 points behind and they have to go to Palace and from what I have seen Liverpool struggle against Palace. They certaintly will not find it easy to go to Selhurst Park and win. We should not give up. While we are in we are in it. I doubt we will do it but there is a chance and knowing the PL anything can prove possible until the final game.

It´s meaningless from Chelsea´s point of view.

[The Skipper 20,593]

  On 24/04/2014 at 08:12, The only place to be said:

Right....but wouldn't some of those same players be involved in defending as well?? Or are we going to call a timeout when we lose possession and bring on the defensive unit?

That obviously goes without saying? But if you think that we'd be so defensively vulnerable if Torres had support from two more guys on the counter and if you think we simply can't risk that because Atletico are so dangerous going forward then bravo, because I don't. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on that one here.

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Decent. Not good, not excellent....decent. OK.

Yes, decent, considering he was up there on his own. It might have been good or excellent if he had a couple of players that supported him when going forward on the counter.

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I'm not sure Oscar has even been a decent counter-attacking threat since the game away to Southampton on January 1st.

Oscar has generally been good in Europe for us. This would've been a decent game for him to play in.

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I think the risk simply wasn't worth it, especially when you lose your first-choice keeper and then your defensive lynchpin and also have a second leg to play. You're also looking at the possibility of a player on a yellow card being slightly out of position and having to make a tackle whilst running back towards goal. Again, why risk it?

Schwarzer is going to play at the Bridge too, does that mean we should also go as cautious as we did in Spain? Of course not. And I'm 100% certain Jose won't go as cautious either. He isn't a bad goalkeeper. Yes, he isn't highly experienced in the CL but he's still a good goalkeeper. We lost JT at around the 70th minute mark, so I don't think including him in your analysis is relevant because we could've still committed more men on the break before that. If Jose went this conservative after the injury but before that he at least tried to allow the players to counter attack better by committing a few more forward on the counter then fine, I wouldn't say anything because that's perfectly understandable, but that wasn't the case.

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I could give a fuck about the advantage we might have when the most important thing is that we're not at a disadvantage going into it.

Well you're wrong if you think we don't have any sort of disadvantage because the away goal rule is clearly there for all to see. If you were an Atletico fan or rather yet, if we were at the Bridge in the first leg and we played out a 0-0 draw would you say that we have no advantage at all going to the Vicente Calderon with the away goal rule there? Of course you wouldn't.

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Someone once said that Atletico are more adept at sitting deep, defending and hitting teams on the counter....and they'll punish us for it too. Well if we're chasing the game in the second leg from the off surely that plays into their hands doesn't it? As it is both teams probably need to score, and we'll hopefully have some key attacking pieces back who were missing in the first leg.

But it's good to know we're still in the tie. I'll go and get my shirt off the barbie.

You don't have to patronise me on that, can we not just debate as two intelligent Chelsea fans? I'll say it once again, I seriously don't think committing an extra two men going forward on the counter whilst the rest of the team remain deep would make us so vulnerable that Atletico would punish us. They aren't that great going forward when there's still that many men behind the ball. We'd have enough men to close off any spaces Atletico might attack whilst the rest of the team that went forward on the counter come back and recreate the shape we had started the game with. Simple.

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Do you know how many teams have won CLs back to back? None.

It's actually quite a difficult trophy to win, and sometimes quality and skill means nothing. I've even heard of some teams fluking their way to a victory in the competition.

But Jose has been in the last five CL semis. He's actually got there more than anyone else and his record is comparable to Fergie's in terms of actually going through. You may think you're 'stating facts' (which of course absolves you of actually having to say anything vaguely committal) but what you're actually doing is regurgitating statistics without applying any context or meaning to them.

In light of that I find much to agree with in your final sentiment.

Apparently say anything that doesn't remotely praise Mou on here and you're instantly seen as the enemy by some. You don't need to remind me of his achievements, we're not discussing his ability as a manager in the CL as a whole. Of course it's a difficult trophy to win, that's not the debate here at all, but to say he usually does well in the CL semi finals isn't correct. I'm not knocking Jose in any way, just stating the fact that he has lost five of his seven CL semi final ties. I'm not talking about winning CLs back to back, I'm talking about his CL semi finals record. That's not knocking him as a manager or knocking his CL record, it just is what it is. You can't try and spin it and say he's done well in CL semi finals because he hasn't.

It's how in the same way he's won every CL final he's been part of. That means he does well in CL finals. I don't know why you're trying to spin it into me saying something sinister or bad about Mourinho.

The original discussion was about people comparing Real's result with ours and I was trying to convey that we were way too conservative to even compare the two results/performances; we parked the bus, they had a true counter attacking approach; we were away, they were at home; they created plenty of chances to bed the game, I can't even remember us creating a chance on goal; they have a complete team, we don't. They were two complete different scenarios.

It has now somehow conveyed into a unnecessary discussion between us both, you think that Mourinho's plan was 100% perfect and has given us a great advantage and no disadvantages, whilst I think that his plan was very good defensively, but that we could've played better on the counter, not as conservative - instead of sending just Torres and maybe Willian or Ramires forward, we could've sent one or two more because Atletico aren't good enough to punish us with the rest of our team sitting deep - if we leave back 6 men for a few seconds we really won't be as open as you're trying to portray we'd be - and that could've perhaps nicked us an away goal because I think Atletico are capable of grabbing an away goal at ours themselves. I think it's best we just leave the discussion where it is because it's spiralling into a needless, repetitive argument now.

[Stats 7,084]

  On 24/04/2014 at 09:07, bushman said:

It´s meaningless from Chelsea´s point of view.

We win and we are in the title race. Maybe out of our hands but it is possible. How is it meaningless from our point of view? We win, the pressure is on City and Liverpool who have tough fixtures remaining.

[bushman 2,043]

  On 24/04/2014 at 09:25, Stats said:

We win and we are in the title race. Maybe out of our hands but it is possible. How is it meaningless from our point of view? We win, the pressure is on City and Liverpool who have tough fixtures remaining.

You are not very good in your math. Try again.

To expect Liverpoops or Citeh to drop points is not worth to jeopardize Chelsea´s chances to win the CL.

Since Wednesday game is much more important, then Jose is correct to field B team on Sunday.

[Reddish-Blue 2,428]

  On 24/04/2014 at 09:25, Stats said:

We win and we are in the title race. Maybe out of our hands but it is possible. How is it meaningless from our point of view? We win, the pressure is on City and Liverpool who have tough fixtures remaining.

Liverpool doesn't have tough fixtures remaining...

Crystal Palace (A) and Newcastle at Anfield is hardly difficult for a team capable of outscoring anyone in the league at the moment..

[Stats 7,084]

  On 24/04/2014 at 09:34, bushman said:

You are not very good in your math. Try again.

To expect Liverpoops or Citeh to drop points is not worth to jeopardize Chelsea´s chances to win the CL.

Since Wednesday game is much more important, then Jose is correct to field B team on Sunday.

Well bushman or 'dumbman' as I will refer to you as we still have a chance. I would rather us challenge for the league then throw it away. Like I said the PL has shown anything is possible. What if we do win that game then go on to win the league. Or perhaps lose the game then see Liverpool and City drop points. We would regret playing a weakened team. I think it is possible that City drop points. Less possible than Liverpool however I still think they go to to go to Palace at 8pm on Monday night iirc. By that time they may be 2nd or 3rd if things go our way. Pressure hopefully will get to them.

I think you are the one who needs more maths lessons. If we have a chance of winning it that is mathmetically possible. Regardless of whether we have to rely on other teams it is mathemtically possible. Idiot.

  On 24/04/2014 at 09:42, Reddish-Blue said:

Liverpool doesn't have tough fixtures remaining...

Crystal Palace (A) and Newcastle at Anfield is hardly difficult for a team capable of outscoring anyone in the league at the moment..

Palace has proved to be difficult for many teams. City were outsocring most teams before. Now would you have predicted them to batter Sunderland? I would of but no. A team who was last in the league nearly got 3 points there. Until the last day anything is possible. I will always keep believing.

[bushman 2,043]

  On 24/04/2014 at 09:53, Stats said:

Well bushman or 'dumbman' as I will refer to you as we still have a chance. I would rather us challenge for the league then throw it away. Like I said the PL has shown anything is possible. What if we do win that game then go on to win the league. Or perhaps lose the game then see Liverpool and City drop points. We would regret playing a weakened team. I think it is possible that City drop points. Less possible than Liverpool however I still think they go to to go to Palace at 8pm on Monday night iirc. By that time they may be 2nd or 3rd if things go our way. Pressure hopefully will get to them.

I think you are the one who needs more maths lessons. If we have a chance of winning it that is mathmetically possible. Regardless of whether we have to rely on other teams it is mathemtically possible. Idiot.

Palace has proved to be difficult for many teams. City were outsocring most teams before. Now would you have predicted them to batter Sunderland? I would of but no. A team who was last in the league nearly got 3 points there. Until the last day anything is possible. I will always keep believing.

Well, let me educate you on a few things. First of all, do not insult me, otherwise you may just fuck off.

Secondly, I have my opinion you have yours. That´s the end of our discussion here.

[Stats 7,084]

  On 24/04/2014 at 09:58, bushman said:

Well, let me educate you on a few things. First of all, do not insult me, otherwise you may just fuck off.

Secondly, I have my opinion you have yours. That´s the end of our discussion here.

If you use your brain maybe you would realise that if you want be be treated a certain way then you should treat other people the same way. Don't talk to me like that: "you are not very good in your math". I find that rather rude. If you find that is a decent way of speaking to people in life I feel sorry for you then. I have noticed it with a lot of people on this forum. You seem to try and belittle them when you talk. So like I said treat people the way you wish to be treated.

Comprende?