The Mourinho Thread

[EMK 7]

having problems quoting!

[EMK 7]

real problem!

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

but normally the argument is that Mourinho doesn't develop players. I read this here many times to know most of the people 'against him' in this discussion feel like that. Many of them wrote it with their own fingers.

I think the way he's handling Zouma is brilliant - Strike agreed with me, don't know if for real or if he was being sarcastic (never know with written communication).

I understand now better what you meant - which is a relief - because I was like, 'this can't have been written by Thomas, just can't'.

So let's call him - and Aké - first team members. Still Mourinho was giving enough chances for Aké earlier the season (am I confused or he even played in the league? Or was it UCL?) and every chance he has to give a rest to either Terry or Cahill, he's been deploying Zouma. I think that's developing both players and at the end of the day, that's what matters right? That the young players (in age and in development) receive chances and are developed. Last season van Ginkel was very unlucky, I reckon he would have received even more chances than Zouma and Aké, although he's not that young anymore.

I don't know why Salah himself hasn't been receiving a lot of chances and I even agree with you - and others - that I'd rather have one of the kids instead of him in the first team, but not Boga. I think some of the kids have been working hard for longer and I know pecking order shouldn't consider only this, but you guys maybe have never managed a team of people (I have for years). Sometimes you have to base your decisions based on what preserves the good environment. I'm very excited about Boga, VERY, but maybe it wasn't his turn this season yet ahead of others.

Again, I understand where you guys are coming from, I just don't get the rush and the idea that José will never give them a proper chance. I think it's too early to have this predicament. The kids have time (most of them are 18 and 19) and Mourinho has time too.

I deeply disagree with the argument some around here have that every season is crucial. This season the first team and Mourinho have a lot of pressure because neither have won anything in a long time. Do you think Arsenal have more pressure on them to win this year than last after 8 years without wining any title? The pressure to retain isn't the same as the pressure to break a trophyless period. Actually, many teams have hangovers after they win an important title. Until the next champion is crowded, they're still the champions in the following season. So yeah, I feel like this team (the first team) needs a lot of work in their attitude, they should be played the most possible (but also avoid exhaustion) because if the first team isn't ready, how can it have youngsters integrated? I'm not saying Ruben would have compromised against Sporting. He doesn't even play in a position he would have compromised, I just meant the first team players NEEDED to win that match convincingly. Mourinho needs to start recovering Schurrle's form because he's very useful for us and we are an injury away from having an AM problem if he isn't fit. If we move Cesc to #10 and Oscar or Willian to the wing, we create a problem in our pivot and we all saw how much we lacked wherever Mikel played for us. Bad timing, which sucks for the kids, but the Sporting match was something the first team players needed.

Well said once again, there is a footnote to it... We have invested a lot of money and resources to the development of players like Schurrle and Salah, we need to show a return on that as well which is why pecking order is a valid reason as to why they are getting chances over our academy products. In time players like Boga and Baker will get a chance to play regular but I don't foresee that happening any time soon, it takes time and careful integration.

Jose gave Solanke a 17yr old striker a debut... You may call it a cameo but where else in the history of this club (post Roman) has that ever happened? It should be viewed as a tremendous indication for the academy that they are producing players who will one day play for a top 4/5 club in the world. I know I tagged Barbara in this but I am directing this mainly at Skipper, Lionsden, Killer218211 and Strike, since Jose has been back at the club we've seen Baker, Ake, Solanke, Van Ginkel, Zouma, Loftus-Cheek, Christensen, Kalas(not exactly young but you get my point), all get opportunities to play, many of them got debuts with him. Its not going to happen overnight but the integration will take place in the near future! The priority now is to build a foundation of winning for the youth players to aspire to and set a standard of excellence for them to emulate! Integrating youth into a team that haven't won anything is not the way to carry on a winning tradition, you win first THEN you allow the youth to follow that example.

I have no doubt that we will integrate academy players mainly because we have to! we don't have a lot of homegrown players in our first team and the ones we do have aren't exactly young. In time we will be forced to have them in the squad and as a result they will play, after that its up to them how many opportunities they get. So when Jose says he will have failed if youth players don't get into the squad its bang on! He will have failed because firstly, if we have to go into the market to buy homegrown talent in order to fill a quota we will be paying a king's ransom to get them! Also it would mean that we haven't really set up a decent bridging program for our youth to be integrated correctly into the first team. So yes Jose will have failed miserably if none of our academy products get into the team.

Many would argue that getting into the squad isn't enough, that is true but at this club our aim is still to be the best in the world so we will also have to continue to buy talent abroad. What that means is youth players will find it difficult to find regular playing time if they aren't of the ilk of the players we have purchased, that is up to them, not Jose... If they aren't good enough to play at that level then we have to look elsewhere... why is that so hard to grasp? I for one believe in time Boga, Christensen, Ake and Cheek will be good enough to play for us perhaps even Baker, but it will be up to them to take their chances.

[Muzchap 8,966]

Lmao, that's hardly a fair analysis.

If we all didn't have some opinion on such things, this forum would be a pretty boring place at times? Do we all just post about how happy we are about the season and just be jolly?

Debating issues is the whole point of this forum and it's actually going well. A lot of good posts from both sides of the argument. Your post is slightly ignorant imo.

Yeah not my finest post on the subject - but I was getting pretty bored of repeating myself...

You say ignorant, I say bored

Merry Xmas

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Yeah not my finest post on the subject - but I was getting pretty bored of repeating myself...

You say ignorant, I say bored

Merry Xmas

Which is fine lol, but we do just want to discuss the issue.. It's nothing unhappy about our situation. I'm sure everyone's thrilled that we're flying in all competitions, we're all just fans talking about issues deeper than the simple match results

Merry xmas to you as well, mate!

[Muzchap 8,966]

Which is fine lol, but we do just want to discuss the issue.. It's nothing unhappy about our situation. I'm sure everyone's thrilled that we're flying in all competitions, we're all just fans talking about issues deeper than the simple match results

Merry xmas to you as well, mate!

I will drink to that

[Stats 6,987]

i'll leave this here. Ake has played a fair bit for Chelsea since Benitez played him in the Europa League in 2012. Zouma was a regular at St Ettienne. So those two are trusted and I think they are more or less squad players than academy youngsters.

I'm talking about introducing Academy products like Baker RLC Boga in the earlier rounds of the League Cup - and the Sporting Lisbon game. So far only Christensen has got the chance. I credit Mourinho for going with Christensen against Shrewsbury and hope to see more of the same.

It was good to see Christensen play the whole game but Mourinho would have played Azpi there had he not been suspended. Then Ivanovic was also suspened too. It is not as if Mourinho played him because he felt he deserved the start. He could have started Terry at CB and played Zouma at RB but did not so credit there for trusting Christensen but my point remains the same. I don't really think Christensen earned his place in the starting 11 on merit. It was more of a case that our first and second choice RB were suspended.

[Jase 43,479]

Manchester City’s Manuel Pellegrini questions Chelsea’s staying power

It's almost pitiful when Pellegrini tries to play mind games..

[xPetrCechx 13,548]

[Vybz Kartel 1,613]

Great coach, but I feel sometimes he has to be less pragmatic because it costs valuable points and goal difference

[Fernando 6,376]

Diving debate annoys mourinho.

http://m.skysports.com/article/football/yourclub/9615607?compid=263&teamid=524

There's some truth to what mourinho said, however the things he's referencing would not be possible if there was an official panel.

Right now what a panel can sanction it's vague and sometimes not applicable everywhere.

A panel set just for diving will be fair because that will be it's main focus.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,776]

Great coach, but I feel sometimes he has to be less pragmatic because it costs valuable points and goal difference

Not, in my opinion, as many as it has gained.

Perhaps this differing view might be traced to my thoughts about the prowess of our team. It is widely believed that we have an outstanding team capable of beating almost anybody by pressing high and playing through teams. Not me however. I think that our generally great results this season have caused people to overlook some of the flaws in our squad and to overrate the quality we can put on the pitch.

Clearly we do have some outstanding footballers but, as controversial as my opinion might be, I also think we have rather too many who are short of the quality required if our play is to justify the rave reviews we've been getting. For example, I don't think any of Oscar, Schurrle or Willian are as good as needed. Even Costa, who is a big improvement on what we have had previously, has clear weaknesses that restrict our flow.

Believing all of this allows me to support a pragmatic approach more often than some others seem to. I am delighted that we have a manager who will go the pragmatic route whenever he does not feel that we can win by going on to/staying on the front foot. I am convinced that we have gained much, much more from Jose doing that, than we have lost.

[Fernando 6,376]

Not, in my opinion, as many as it has gained.

For League format it's good but for cl format not.

Take a look at United game. If we had been content with just one goal we would had a hard time after United scored on us the last minute.

Indeed something like that happened against Barcelona where they scored last minute and we got eliminated.

In league we at least get one point.

This is why being over cautious in cl can be at times harmful and cost you badly.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Diving debate annoys mourinho.

http://m.skysports.com/article/football/yourclub/9615607?compid=263&teamid=524

There's some truth to what mourinho said, however the things he's referencing would not be possible if there was an official panel.

Right now what a panel can sanction it's vague and sometimes not applicable everywhere.

A panel set just for diving will be fair because that will be it's main focus.

Yeah I don't agree with Mourinho here. Diving is a problem, not in the PL alone, and it needs to be addressed.. It's just not nice to see, especially from your own players. It's cheating and we're better than that.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,776]

For League format it's good but for cl format not.

Take a look at United game. If we had been content with just one goal we would had a hard time after United scored on us the last minute.

Indeed something like that happened against Barcelona where they scored last minute and we got eliminated.

In league we at least get one point.

This is why being over cautious in cl can be at times harmful and cost you badly.

Again, I disagree.

That performance against Bacelona was one of our better displays against them and we certainly deserved a second goal before they equalised. Even so the high quality nature of our play that night was based on a solid, shape holding, defensive set up. Trying to mix it with that Barca side was not the way to go for anybody. They were extremely fortunate to put us out, but what happened when AF deployed a less pragmatic approach against them in the final? The scoreline was decisive but nevertheless extremely flattering to a United side who were comprehensively outplayed.

The notion that when a side lines up in the 'low-block' it means that they are not trying to win is one of the great myths of the game. Sometimes doing that is exactly the right way to try to win. JM knows this and he is not alone. I want to see us able to beat more sides on the front foot, dominating possession and confidently able to challenge them to outscore us if they can. Not with this collection of players we can't however. We are closer now to being able to adopt that approach but we aren't there yet.

Not quite sure what you meant in reference to the United game, after all we did have a hard time when they scored against us.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

I want to pointed out, why we're usually 'struggling' against mid table teams, but having a great record against big clubs in an away matches. The answer is, we play 433 formation against big ones, while we play 4231 formation almost every times against the rest away. Yes, it seems worked against Everton this season, but that is 'very rare' to happen imo.

Now the real question is, why we're not playing 433 formation in every away matches, regardless they are big clubs or not? We have the resources, I don't see why we couldn't do that.

[Tomo 21,684]

Great coach, but I feel sometimes he has to be less pragmatic because it costs valuable points and goal difference

Ask Liverpool fans if relentlessly chasing goal difference is a good idea.

[The Chels 2,502]

Not, in my opinion, as many as it has gained. Perhaps this differing view might be traced to my thoughts about the prowess of our team. It is widely believed that we have an outstanding team capable of beating almost anybody by pressing high and playing through teams. Not me however. I think that our generally great results this season have caused people to overlook some of the flaws in our squad and to overrate the quality we can put on the pitch. Clearly we do have some outstanding footballers but, as controversial as my opinion might be, I also think we have rather too many who are short of the quality required if our play is to justify the rave reviews we've been getting. For example, I don't think any of Oscar, Schurrle or Willian are as good as needed. Even Costa, who is a big improvement on what we have had previously, has clear weaknesses that restrict our flow. Believing all of this allows me to support a pragmatic approach more often than some others seem to. I am delighted that we have a manager who will go the pragmatic route whenever he does not feel that we can win by going on to/staying on the front foot. I am convinced that we have gained much, much more from Jose doing that, than we have lost.

Again, I disagree.

That performance against Bacelona was one of our better displays against them and we certainly deserved a second goal before they equalised. Even so the high quality nature of our play that night was based on a solid, shape holding, defensive set up. Trying to mix it with that Barca side was not the way to go for anybody. They were extremely fortunate to put us out, but what happened when AF deployed a less pragmatic approach against them in the final? The scoreline was decisive but nevertheless extremely flattering to a United side who were comprehensively outplayed.

The notion that when a side lines up in the 'low-block' it means that they are not trying to win is one of the great myths of the game. Sometimes doing that is exactly the right way to try to win. JM knows this and he is not alone. I want to see us able to beat more sides on the front foot, dominating possession and confidently able to challenge them to outscore us if they can. Not with this collection of players we can't however. We are closer now to being able to adopt that approach but we aren't there yet.

Not quite sure what you meant in reference to the United game, after all we did have a hard time when they scored against us.

I understand what you're saying and agree that we don't have the players to dominate every team but there is a way to be pragmatic. And personally I'm not a big fan of Jose's defensive system when I compare it to the pressing systems used by Dortmund in recent years or by Simeone's Atletico, who really are the template for defensive stability and tactical balance in the big games.

Compare our performance away to Atletico last year (or ours away to City this year) with Atletico's away to us last year (or away to Real this year). The only advantage ours has is it is perhaps less tiring for the players. Otherwise we concede more chances as we retreat and the opposition has more of the ball around our box; pressing (if any) is localised and disorganised which leaves big gaps and eliminates the opportunity for turnovers high up the pitch; and all it takes is one lapse of concentration, à la Hazard v Atletico or Schurrle/Ivanovic v City, and you're done for.

We are more than capable of playing a high intensity pressing game but Jose for some reason prefers to 'park the bus' even though it relies a lot on luck and we are not good at counter attacking from deep. I firmly believe Atletico are again more likely to win the CL than us even though we have better players because Simeone's tactics (which are still very defensive and includes a low-block but with very organised and intense (counter) pressing) result in fewer clear-cut chances being conceded and more high-quality chances being created.