The Mourinho Thread

[Pseudo 92]

The whole KDB saga really highlights Jose's lack of flexibility as a coach; Tactically he's 2nd to none but his teams are too machine like for my liking. If one part is missing then the machine breaks down( that's why we're so dependent on certain players) we can't circumvent problems like Matic's ban or Fabregas getting injured because he doesn't know how integrate lesser players into the system and still have it ticking albeit with less efficiency.

When Jose was building his team he had a clear vision of the football he wanted to play and the pieces needed to execute it but his vision can only be realized with that ONE piece. If he's given a player with different qualities he will struggle to get the best out of said player. William isn't better than Sallah, Scurrle or KDB but he's more effective in the system.

If those three players had failed because they were shite I wouldn't have been bothered but when you let go of talent because of a manager's inability to adapt it hurts more.

[Viper22 2,418]

Word of the day for this part of the TC forum:

Ungrateful.

[Tomo 21,751]

The whole KDB saga really highlights Jose's lack of flexibility as a coach; Tactically he's 2nd to none but his teams are too machine like for my liking. If one part is missing then the machine breaks down( that's why we're so dependent on certain players) we can't circumvent problems like Matic's ban or Fabregas getting injured because he doesn't know how integrate lesser players into the system and still have it ticking albeit with less efficiency.

When Jose was building his team he had a clear vision of the football he wanted to play and the pieces needed to execute it but vision can only be realized with that ONE piece. If he's given a player with different qualities he will struggle to get the best out of said player. William isn't better than Sallah, Scurrle or KDB but he's more effective in the system.

If those three players had failed because they were shite I wouldn't have been bothered but when you let go of talent because of a manager's inability to adapt it hurts more.

The whole KDB saga was because he couldn't adapt.

KDB is at his best when he's the main man, and with Eden around he wasn't getting that role anytime soon.

What Jose always gets right is team balance, he has his cooks (Eden and Cesc), his destroyer (Matic), his work horses (Oscar and Willian) and his personality striker (Costa).

[MrBlueGuy 1,552]

The whole KDB saga was because he couldn't adapt.

KDB is at his best when he's the main man, and with Eden around he wasn't getting that role anytime soon.

What Jose always gets right is team balance, he has his cooks (Eden and Cesc), his destroyer (Matic), his work horses (Oscar and Willian) and his personality striker (Costa).

Kevin plays as a CAM, Hazard as a LW and they do fine together in national team, in fact Kevin is even better than Hazard for Belgium.

[Tomo 21,751]

Kevin plays as a CAM, Hazard as a LW and they do fine together in national team, in fact Kevin is even better than Hazard for Belgium.

Wilmots must give him more freedom, something that at best one player gets under Jose and Eden is that one player and not even he is completely exempt from it.

[Viper22 2,418]

But that's the thing. there's always pressure to win trophies at big clubs. if we win the league this season, we will also be expected to defend our title the next season and that pressure isn't any less. Man city are already seeking a replacement for Pellegrini despite being the reigning champions. It's a vicious cycle this youngsters are caught in, unfortunately. Ultimately though, it's the manager's mentality, trust and philosophy that determines whether a talented youngster is given playing time or not. regardless of pressure, I believe a manager like Guardiola is more likely to give youngsters opportunities than a mourinho.

Guardiola?

Appearances for players aged 21 or under in the Bundesliga since Guardiola joined Bayern:

Lukas Raeder (2 appearances, 1 of those off the bench)

Ylli Sallahi (1 appearance)

Pierre Hojbjerg (8 appearances, 5 of those off the bench)

Mitchell Weiser (5 appearances, 3 of those off the bench)

Gianluca Gaudino (4 appearances, 3 of those off the bench)

Overall: 20 appearances, 12 of those off the bench.

Appearances for players aged 21 or under in the Premier League since Mourinho joined Chelsea:

John Swift (1 appearance off the bench)

Marco Van Ginkel (2 appearances off the bench)

Mohamed Salah (10 appearances, 4 of those off the bench) [13-14 season only as 22 this season]

Tomas Kalas (2 appearances, 1 of those off the bench)

Nathan Ake (1 appearance off the bench)

Kurt Zouma (8 appearances, 3 of those off the bench)

Ruben Loftus-Cheek (1 appearance off the bench)

Overall: 30 appearances, 13 of those off the bench.

Stats don't lie man, Jose isn't perfect but the stats prove he's better at integrating young players into the team than Pep.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

I stopped reading after salah "the top class player".. :lol: . Shrewsbury and bradford matches showed exactly what class he is.

Not surprised thiugh. It's the samd group of (lets replace a word I really like with puppies) puppies, who just want to puppying moan about every puppying thing. Be it his team selection even before yhe match started, or players etc etc. U name it, they moan it.

You can throw the Oscar/Mikel rhetoric in there as well.

I dare anyone to point to one thread where I'm pissing and moaning about this 1st place club, its players, the management, the directors or the style of play.

What many need to realize is you're never gonna get things to be 100% to your liking, its impossible. When you can come to grips with that you may start to appreciate what you have a little more.

UP THE CHELS

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

The whole KDB saga really highlights Jose's lack of flexibility as a coach; Tactically he's 2nd to none but his teams are too machine like for my liking. If one part is missing then the machine breaks down( that's why we're so dependent on certain players) we can't circumvent problems like Matic's ban or Fabregas getting injured because he doesn't know how integrate lesser players into the system and still have it ticking albeit with less efficiency.

When Jose was building his team he had a clear vision of the football he wanted to play and the pieces needed to execute it but his vision can only be realized with that ONE piece. If he's given a player with different qualities he will struggle to get the best out of said player. William isn't better than Sallah, Scurrle or KDB but he's more effective in the system.

If those three players had failed because they were shite I wouldn't have been bothered but when you let go of talent because of a manager's inability to adapt it hurts more.

Can you point out one game where you thought "Wow KDB has really put in a shift here!"

He's not the type of player that works well in a balanced squad, he doesn't retain possession, can't defend and never puts in a tackle. The reason he is excelling in Germany is because that league is played at slower pace and it fits his style more. He's just another in a long list of players who works better in any league but England.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Guardiola?

Appearances for players aged 21 or under in the Bundesliga since Guardiola joined Bayern:

Lukas Raeder (2 appearances, 1 of those off the bench)

Ylli Sallahi (1 appearance)

Pierre Hojbjerg (8 appearances, 5 of those off the bench)

Mitchell Weiser (5 appearances, 3 of those off the bench)

Gianluca Gaudino (4 appearances, 3 of those off the bench)

Overall: 20 appearances, 12 of those off the bench.

Appearances for players aged 21 or under in the Premier League since Mourinho joined Chelsea:

John Swift (1 appearance off the bench)

Marco Van Ginkel (2 appearances off the bench)

Mohamed Salah (10 appearances, 4 of those off the bench) [13-14 season only as 22 this season]

Tomas Kalas (2 appearances, 1 of those off the bench)

Nathan Ake (1 appearance off the bench)

Kurt Zouma (8 appearances, 3 of those off the bench)

Ruben Loftus-Cheek (1 appearance off the bench)

Overall: 30 appearances, 13 of those off the bench.

Stats don't lie man, Jose isn't perfect but the stats prove he's better at integrating young players into the team than Pep.

Well said! I think the problem here is Lionsden is a xenophobe and of that list only two are english born. Though I'm sure Baker and Brown have made it into the matchday squads.

[didierforever 7,349]

Guardiola?

Appearances for players aged 21 or under in the Bundesliga since Guardiola joined Bayern:

Lukas Raeder (2 appearances, 1 of those off the bench)

Ylli Sallahi (1 appearance)

Pierre Hojbjerg (8 appearances, 5 of those off the bench)

Mitchell Weiser (5 appearances, 3 of those off the bench)

Gianluca Gaudino (4 appearances, 3 of those off the bench)

Overall: 20 appearances, 12 of those off the bench.

Appearances for players aged 21 or under in the Premier League since Mourinho joined Chelsea:

John Swift (1 appearance off the bench)

Marco Van Ginkel (2 appearances off the bench)

Mohamed Salah (10 appearances, 4 of those off the bench) [13-14 season only as 22 this season]

Tomas Kalas (2 appearances, 1 of those off the bench)

Nathan Ake (1 appearance off the bench)

Kurt Zouma (8 appearances, 3 of those off the bench)

Ruben Loftus-Cheek (1 appearance off the bench)

Overall: 30 appearances, 13 of those off the bench.

Stats don't lie man, Jose isn't perfect but the stats prove he's better at integrating young players into the team than Pep.

sir, u just owned him!!!!

[Fernando 6,590]

The whole KDB saga really highlights Jose's lack of flexibility as a coach; Tactically he's 2nd to none but his teams are too machine like for my liking. If one part is missing then the machine breaks down( that's why we're so dependent on certain players) we can't circumvent problems like Matic's ban or Fabregas getting injured because he doesn't know how integrate lesser players into the system and still have it ticking albeit with less efficiency.

When Jose was building his team he had a clear vision of the football he wanted to play and the pieces needed to execute it but his vision can only be realized with that ONE piece. If he's given a player with different qualities he will struggle to get the best out of said player. William isn't better than Sallah, Scurrle or KDB but he's more effective in the system.

If those three players had failed because they were shite I wouldn't have been bothered but when you let go of talent because of a manager's inability to adapt it hurts more.

Well in part you also want some players you sell to do good, otherwise who would buy from us?

I think the mistake in KDB was not putting a buy back or even a first buyer refusal clasuse in it.

[Roquila 1,335]

Capital one Cup.

1st in the League, 5 points clear, 1 game in hand.

Still in the Champions league with a legit chance to reach the QF.

I don't always agree with Jose but he's done more than good enough.

Thank you boss.

[lionsden 4,689]

Guardiola?

Appearances for players aged 21 or under in the Bundesliga since Guardiola joined Bayern:

Lukas Raeder (2 appearances, 1 of those off the bench)

Ylli Sallahi (1 appearance)

Pierre Hojbjerg (8 appearances, 5 of those off the bench)

Mitchell Weiser (5 appearances, 3 of those off the bench)

Gianluca Gaudino (4 appearances, 3 of those off the bench)

Overall: 20 appearances, 12 of those off the bench.

Appearances for players aged 21 or under in the Premier League since Mourinho joined Chelsea:

John Swift (1 appearance off the bench)

Marco Van Ginkel (2 appearances off the bench)

Mohamed Salah (10 appearances, 4 of those off the bench) [13-14 season only as 22 this season]

Tomas Kalas (2 appearances, 1 of those off the bench)

Nathan Ake (1 appearance off the bench)

Kurt Zouma (8 appearances, 3 of those off the bench)

Ruben Loftus-Cheek (1 appearance off the bench)

Overall: 30 appearances, 13 of those off the bench.

Stats don't lie man, Jose isn't perfect but the stats prove he's better at integrating young players into the team than Pep.

Your analysis would be great if it wasn't completely irrelevant to the point and misleading.

Every single one of those players you mentioned were promoted from the Munich academy and none of them were experienced and fairly established youngsters bought for decent money like Salah and Zouma.

The likes of Hojbjerg and Weiser are essentially the Chelsea equivalent of John swift and RLC and in this case, they were still giving more playing time overall than our youngsters. This despite the fact that Bayern have the deepest and strongest squad in Europe over the last 3 years.

And to the most important point, Guardiola was used as a benchmark for managers who are pioneers of promoting and developing youngsters due to his body of work at Barca were he turned players like Busquets (he basically sold Toure to accomodate him) Pique,Pedro, from mere la masia youth players to world class or very good players in Pedro's case and also gave players like Thiago,Bojan, tello,Cuenca et al plenty of game time.

Using fairly experienced players that were bought for decent money like zouma,Salah et al to illustrate Jose's tendency or lackthereof to promote and develop youth is very daft indeed. if that;s the case you will also have to include the likes of Gotze,Alcantara,Shaqiri et al in your analysis but then it wouldn't suit your agenda/argument, would it.

[lionsden 4,689]

Well said! I think the problem here is Lionsden is a xenophobe and of that list only two are english born. Though I'm sure Baker and Brown have made it into the matchday squads.

So the mods are just going to ignore this?

[DH1988 1,352]

Loved seeing him after we won the cup, those celebrations will stay a long time in the memory, so different.

[Viper22 2,418]

Your analysis would be great if it wasn't completely irrelevant to the point and misleading.

Every single one of those players you mentioned were promoted from the Munich academy and none of them were experienced and fairly established youngsters bought for decent money like Salah and Zouma.

The likes of Hojbjerg and Weiser are essentially the Chelsea equivalent of John swift and RLC and in this case, they were still giving more playing time overall than our youngsters. This despite the fact that Bayern have the deepest and strongest squad in Europe over the last 3 years.

And to the most important point, Guardiola was used as a benchmark for managers who are pioneers of promoting and developing youngsters due to his body of work at Barca were he turned players like Busquets (he basically sold Toure to accomodate him) Pique,Pedro, from mere la masia youth players to world class or very good players in Pedro's case and also gave players like Thiago,Bojan, tello,Cuenca et al plenty of game time.

Using fairly experienced players that were bought for decent money like zouma,Salah et al to illustrate Jose's tendency or lackthereof to promote and develop youth is very daft indeed. if that;s the case you will also have to include the likes of Gotze,Alcantara,Shaqiri et al in your analysis but then it wouldn't suit your agenda/argument, would it.

While I see what you're saying, the whole "it doesn't suit your agenda/argument" cuts both ways here. I didn't include Alcantara/Shaqiri/Gotze because they were too old for my analysis otherwise I would have included Salah's stats from this season and more importantly Courtois, so... yeah.

As for the dropping established players to bring in youngsters, I will go no further than to point you towards the Varane/Pepe situation, i'm not going to disrespect you by going into the details of that.

As for Hojbjerg and Weiser, they were both signed to the club in 2012 (neither of them came through the Bayern academy) and currently has Hojbjerg loaned out to a lower league club (a bit like Kalas) so I don't think they're great examples of youth integration... Cheers for proving my point though.

I stand by what I said, and i'll reiterate that while Mourinho is far from perfect, he's much better than most people think and Pep is at best only as good a him at youth integration. I highly doubt any of the facts I have presented will change your mind in this matter but I just felt like pointing them out.

[Rom2013 446]

Your analysis would be great if it wasn't completely irrelevant to the point and misleading.

Every single one of those players you mentioned were promoted from the Munich academy and none of them were experienced and fairly established youngsters bought for decent money like Salah and Zouma.

The likes of Hojbjerg and Weiser are essentially the Chelsea equivalent of John swift and RLC and in this case, they were still giving more playing time overall than our youngsters. This despite the fact that Bayern have the deepest and strongest squad in Europe over the last 3 years.

And to the most important point, Guardiola was used as a benchmark for managers who are pioneers of promoting and developing youngsters due to his body of work at Barca were he turned players like Busquets (he basically sold Toure to accomodate him) Pique,Pedro, from mere la masia youth players to world class or very good players in Pedro's case and also gave players like Thiago,Bojan, tello,Cuenca et al plenty of game time.

Using fairly experienced players that were bought for decent money like zouma,Salah et al to illustrate Jose's tendency or lackthereof to promote and develop youth is very daft indeed. if that;s the case you will also have to include the likes of Gotze,Alcantara,Shaqiri et al in your analysis but then it wouldn't suit your agenda/argument, would it.

Guardiola was also the coach of Barcelona B, he knew all those players, la Masia is great, he trusted all those players, it won't happen again in his carrer spomething like that

[LondonsFinest 692]

People actually mentioning Guardiola and youth, because he dumped a 30 year old Deco, a declining Ronaldinho for the world's best talent and a never shining mexican for a good CB, who he bought.
The word support, means to be behind somebody through thick and thin. Critisice him for bad decisions and praise him for good ones and actions at the same time. Then we look at the fact, that we are challenging for the title for a second year, won a domestic cup, no matter it's importance, nearly reached a CL final, without a good striker(despite it being last year). Can someone please tell me a good defensive midfielder in this years Bundesliga. Someone that jumps on the AMC directly? Specifically this year. And please, don't use the fact that Xabi Alonso is a DM on fifa. I think Mourinho is too much of a crush for me, and I believe him and trust him a lot. But, no one can tell me, he is doing a bad job at Chelsea, IT'S NOT EVEN DEBATABLE BY 1 FREAKING PERCENT.
Thanks.

[Jase 43,479]

Tim Sherwood...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2982852/Tim-Sherwood-play-small-club-need-b-play-Aston-Villa.html

The night that Villa defeated West Brom, their thunder was stolen by images of Gus Poyet and Steve Bruce having to be kept apart during Sunderland’s match with Hull City.

Sherwood sympathises. ‘It happened to me once last season with Tottenham,’ he recalls. ‘We were playing Chelsea. Nearly an hour in we had them where we wanted them. Then Jan Vertonghen makes a mistake, Younes Kaboul gets sent off, and we capitulate, lose 4-0.

‘I’m hot, I’m upset. Jose Mourinho shakes hands, doesn’t say much. Steve Holland, his assistant, comes up and he’s trying to be nice. “Unlucky mate,” he says. “You played really well in the first half.” I tell him to f*** off. Lost my temper. Called him a patronising c***. I had to phone and apologise. Still fuming, but it was my mistake. He didn’t mean it as I thought. You’re not safe in the heat of that battle.

[Kieran. 6,317]

Tim Sherwood...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2982852/Tim-Sherwood-play-small-club-need-b-play-Aston-Villa.html

at least he admitted his mistake.