The Mourinho Thread

[remains of the day 564]

But did we even play all that well last season either? During the end of Rafa's tenure we started putting together a string of good results, but not necessarily good performances. I would even venture to say that for the past three seasons, the quality of football we've displayed in the league has been dire. I can't remember the last time we displayed good, top performances for a stretch of time. I just wonder how much the constant turnover of managers has contributed to that. The last time we finished a season with the same manager we started with, was in 2011! Also, since Carlo left it just seems like every time a new manager has come in to replace the other, the priority has been to sort of the defensee. How much attention has gone towards working on combination patterns and interplay?

Anyway, there's a lot of factors that has contributed to the team's poor performances in these past few seasons, part of it also has to do with transfer strategy. But bottom line is, this team has been poorly coached for a while now and I really hope the board gives Jose time. There's a lot of work that he needs to do to get this team playing at a high level. I don't agree with all of the decisions his made and I think his tactics has been pretty negative for the most part but it's only been a couple of months. Fans really need to have more patience.

[OneMoSalah 8,751]

I think the 8-0 game vs Villa under Rafa, 4-2 win vs Spurs under Robbie and 3-1 loss at United under AVB have perhaps been the best we've played since 2011. Thats how bad and inconsistent we've really been at times in terms of performances.

I'll take winning football over attractive football but you'd think with 150-200m worth of attacking players and Jose Mourinho we'd be winning games easily playing attractively or not. Sure Jose prefers defensive stability over going gun ho but with Mata, Hazard, Oscar, Willian, Ramires, Schurrle, de Bruyne, Eto'o, Torres and Ba you'd think we'd be able to score a lot of goals in games and win them no? Pivots a problem too but I'd prefer we sorted the performances of some of our players first.

[Reddish-Blue 2,321]

I think the 8-0 game vs Villa under Rafa, 4-2 win vs Spurs under Robbie and 3-1 loss at United under AVB have perhaps been the best we've played since 2011. Thats how bad and inconsistent we've really been at times in terms of performances.

I'll take winning football over attractive football but you'd think with 150-200m worth of attacking players and Jose Mourinho we'd be winning games easily playing attractively or not. Sure Jose prefers defensive stability over going gun ho but with Mata, Hazard, Oscar, Willian, Ramires, Schurrle, de Bruyne, Eto'o, Torres and Ba you'd think we'd be able to score a lot of goals in games and win them no? Pivots a problem too but I'd prefer we sorted the performances of some of our players first.

To be honest, I don't think the spending figure matters..

Our major problem has yet to be solved. We still have no link between our CB's and the attacking midfielders.

You can't win games if the opposition park the bus and your CM/DM is not creative enough to find a gap and exploit it...

[mediator 2,026]

We still have no link between our CB's and the attacking midfielders

That's it, without a real DLP we won't dictate the tempo

[The Skipper 20,593]

To be honest, I don't think the spending figure matters..

Our major problem has yet to be solved. We still have no link between our CB's and the attacking midfielders.

You can't win games if the opposition park the bus and your CM/DM is not creative enough to find a gap and exploit it...

Whilst a link player would significantly improve things, it won't magically fix our problems. We need to improve when the AMs do have the ball - there is a serious lack of movement or risk taking in the final third even as of now.

Yeah we don't have a DLP but that doesn't excuse why our AMs aren't doing anything when they do get the ball.

[Korea 734]

One thing I notice is that in previous games, Oscar went back to retrieve the ball.

However, in recent games, he doesnt as much. I dont know if Jose told him not to or if he is just getting tired....

[The Mak 4,459]

Whilst a link player would significantly improve things, it won't magically fix our problems. We need to improve when the AMs do have the ball - there is a serious lack of movement or risk taking in the final third even as of now.

Yeah we don't have a DLP but that doesn't excuse why our AMs aren't doing anything when they do get the ball.

But then again you can also say that they look a little clueless because they always seem to have to come so deep to receive the ball. As a result, they always seem to be facing two blocks of 4 instead of one.

There is no one in the team that can get the ball to them quickly or someone with enough composure to help press further forward allowing the AMs to try to make those dangerous runs in behind. We then shoot ourselves in the foot by asking Oscar to come back to help the lack of creativity coming from there - pretty much making it that much easier for other teams to defend against.

I suppose we'll really see if a DLP can help with that though. I think they'll find that little bit more space and eventually become confident enough to attack it. At least, that's the hope....maybe I'm just rambling!

[Styles 9,790]

Whilst a link player would significantly improve things, it won't magically fix our problems. We need to improve when the AMs do have the ball - there is a serious lack of movement or risk taking in the final third even as of now.

Yeah we don't have a DLP but that doesn't excuse why our AMs aren't doing anything when they do get the ball.

In my opinion it's because they very rarely get the ball when they have found the space + time. Our distribution from midfield is laboured and lacks both creativity and precision. For example I've seen Hazard find space - in which he can turn and make things happen - but he either gets a bad pass, the ball takes too long to arrive, or (and by far the worst) he just goes ignored. How often has Hazard received the ball with two men on him and a third making his way towards him? I've seen that plenty of times. My opinion is that from back to front we lack guile, precision and creative passing. Ivanovic at RB is the best example of that. Sure the AMs can and should be doing better, but if they keep getting late inaccurate passes then I can understand why they're struggling.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

In my opinion it's because they very rarely get the ball when they have found the space + time. Our distribution from midfield is laboured and lacks both creativity and precision. For example I've seen Hazard find space - in which he can turn and make things happen - but he either gets a bad pass, the ball takes too long to arrive, or (and by far the worst) he just goes ignored. How often has Hazard received the ball with two men on him and a third making his way towards him? I've seen that plenty of times. My opinion is that from back to front we lack guile, precision and creative passing. Ivanovic at RB is the best example of that. Sure the AMs can and should be doing better, but if they keep getting late inaccurate passes then I can understand why they're struggling.

With all the attacking talent in the world, we still lack guile, precision and creative passing. Yet counter attacking football is our teams mantra. Pretty ironic to say the least.

We definitely lack penetration when it comes to teams that park the bus. More direct players like Schurrle could make all the difference in our team than the likes of Mata eventhough Mata is a greater talent. We need to found that midfield that feed or strikers and penetrate the opponent's defences.

[LegenTerry 265]

[Liquidator 5,176]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Afyp3dm4yk

His new song

[Mustafa 885]

I might get stick for this... but this is what I believe:

Jose hasnt done anything so far this season to make us or Roman Abramovich (who essentially wants the same thing as us: Good football and trophies) feel satisfied. Dont get me wrong. I love Jose as much as the next person but I didnt expect this start to the season. Points and unattractive football is one thing, unattractive football and no points is another. He's struggled to find the correct combination in midfield and hasnt made our defense as immaculate as we expected from him. If any other manager had a start like this (especially at moments like the home loss to Basel or the shocking performance against Newcastle) we'd be on his ass !!

Di Matteo and Rafa had us playing free flowing, enjoyable football and seemed to keep most of our players happy. Yes this didnt result in a particularly successful campaign but there were times in last seasons campaign where we looked unplayable. For example, Utd at Home in the prem before the 2 sendings off and the 2 Utd goals. The second half against Utd in the FA Cup. The first half of the Arsenal game at home in the League. West Ham at home for the entire game and for the first half in the away game. Villa at the Bridge. We were electrifying for the most part of the first 3 months in the league.

The one game that we played champagne football so far this season was the Hull City (who were alot like a deer in the headlights if you ask me) match at home and that wasn't the entire game, that was only for the first half. On the flip side, there were performances like the Newcastle game, the United game, the Everton game, Basel, West Brom which were all poor displays either at the back or offensively.

With all the talent at Jose's disposal, I and surely the entire TC community expected better.

[Tomo 21,730]

I might get stick for this... but this is what I believe:

Jose hasnt done anything so far this season to make us or Roman Abramovich (who essentially wants the same thing as us: Good football and trophies) feel satisfied. Dont get me wrong. I love Jose as much as the next person but I didnt expect this start to the season. Points and unattractive football is one thing, unattractive football and no points is another. He's struggled to find the correct combination in midfield and hasnt made our defense as immaculate as we expected from him. If any other manager had a start like this (especially at moments like the home loss to Basel or the shocking performance against Newcastle) we'd be on his ass !!

Di Matteo and Rafa had us playing free flowing, enjoyable football and seemed to keep most of our players happy. Yes this didnt result in a particularly successful campaign but there were times in last seasons campaign where we looked unplayable. For example, Utd at Home in the prem before the 2 sendings off and the 2 Utd goals. The second half against Utd in the FA Cup. The first half of the Arsenal game at home in the League. West Ham at home for the entire game and for the first half in the away game. Villa at the Bridge. We were electrifying for the most part of the first 3 months in the league.

The one game that we played champagne football so far this season was the Hull City (who were alot like a deer in the headlights if you ask me) match at home and that wasn't the entire game, that was only for the first half. On the flip side, there were performances like the Newcastle game, the United game, the Everton game, Basel, West Brom which were all poor displays either at the back or offensively.

With all the talent at Jose's disposal, I and surely the entire TC community expected better.

Really? we had our moments last season but i wouldn't say we were playing free flowing football on a consistent basis, far from it.

[Fernando 6,417]

What a shit.

Just because he was at the game to watch Hazard and KDB it doesn't means his chasing this guy.

He just move to Monaco and we got Lukaku.

[Barbara 15,149]

I might get stick for this... but this is what I believe:

Jose hasnt done anything so far this season to make us or Roman Abramovich (who essentially wants the same thing as us: Good football and trophies) feel satisfied. Dont get me wrong. I love Jose as much as the next person but I didnt expect this start to the season. Points and unattractive football is one thing, unattractive football and no points is another. He's struggled to find the correct combination in midfield and hasnt made our defense as immaculate as we expected from him. If any other manager had a start like this (especially at moments like the home loss to Basel or the shocking performance against Newcastle) we'd be on his ass !!

Di Matteo and Rafa had us playing free flowing, enjoyable football and seemed to keep most of our players happy. Yes this didnt result in a particularly successful campaign but there were times in last seasons campaign where we looked unplayable. For example, Utd at Home in the prem before the 2 sendings off and the 2 Utd goals. The second half against Utd in the FA Cup. The first half of the Arsenal game at home in the League. West Ham at home for the entire game and for the first half in the away game. Villa at the Bridge. We were electrifying for the most part of the first 3 months in the league.

The one game that we played champagne football so far this season was the Hull City (who were alot like a deer in the headlights if you ask me) match at home and that wasn't the entire game, that was only for the first half. On the flip side, there were performances like the Newcastle game, the United game, the Everton game, Basel, West Brom which were all poor displays either at the back or offensively.

With all the talent at Jose's disposal, I and surely the entire TC community expected better.

I'll also get stick for this.

I think it's too premature to make any sort of analysis, let alone assess his appointment and work. I think José has a challenge at his hands and he may be struggling more than some expected, but just as much as others. As part of the TC community I didn't expect better and I'll quote some posts of mine from 3 months ago saying so... I think expecting everything to be solved or just a bit jump of quality this calendar year isn't realistic - although possible as a rare case - I think he needs time and he keeps making tests because the team keeps showing him problems. He'll find the best team, he'll stick with that team. I don't think it's the expected thing to happen in November...

Also I didn't get the 'no points' statement... we're 4 pts behind the leaders in Premier League and we're leaders in our Champions League group. Where is the lack of points exactly? How many points should we have anyway?

[Mustafa 885]

Also I didn't get the 'no points' statement... we're 4 pts behind the leaders in Premier League and we're leaders in our Champions League group. Where is the lack of points exactly? How many points should we have anyway?

Metaphorically i mean that we're not getting the points as desired.

[Barbara 15,149]

Metaphorically i mean that we're not getting the points as desired.

I know you didn't mean literally, which is why I pointed out how close we are to the leaders and how we lead our CL group, which means is more about certain expectations like leading the League - as if we were the only decent or good side - rather than we realistically having a problem with the points we have so far.

It's the expectation that is a problem here as we're still well positioned to win the league in 27 rounds from now in the 81 points that are still at stake.

edit: btw here is one of my posts where I said after just 2 games (two wins and one of them the best football we played so far, even if only for two matches):

I love this quote by him in the article:

And that's the Mourinho I've been repeatedly telling has been training RM for the past three seasons.

If anyone here expects the 2004-07-Mourinho to have returned, prepare yourselves for something else.

The man completely changed his view on football and while there are many things that continue the same from his first spell here, how he approaches the game isn't one of them.

He's been very effective with this new mentality in RM (imo) and I have no doubts he'll be the same here, especially because we have the players for it. He's betting a lot on André - although I'm still not convinced André will become what he hopes he will. He will be very careful with Lukaku and see if he can also become what he aims. I don't feel like I know both players enough to say, but if they aren't what he needs them to be, he'll bring others. Hazard, Oscar, Kevin, Moses in addition to those two are the ones he's going to watch closely.

I'm so excited about his time here with us. This season is the complicated one, the transitional, and it'd be great if we could bite one of the big trophies, but next season will be the hit. And from there on I think we may have the chance to become the next 'it' club in the world.

sweetie, you're not understanding my point at all.

He's here to create a new style of playing and that requires time. It has little to do with winning titles. My post was about Mourinho creating a hit team, the team everyone will talk about. Just like Barça has been and now Bayern is. He has the quality to do that and while he doesn't have all players now, he has a few of them that will mature into the next generation of A players and a few more might continue to join. Read carefully what I've written. It's about changing our style because he's changed his. And becoming a reference in the world of football. It requires time and those young players to mature.

If we happen to win titles in the between, great and I believe we will. Next year I believe we'll be able to repeat the first 30 minutes against Hull to a T and for nearly 90 minutes in most matches already. This season we might do that a few times, but we won't do another few times. That's what I'm talking about. Titles are consequence of the philosophy and style. And let's not forget we have really hard competition in EPL - let alone in Europe.

And you said well in your post. RM had the second best squad in the world at the time. I'm not sure currently we make the top5 or even the best squad in England right now.

I think comparing this season to the 2004/05 is a bit of a stretch. The players were older, more experienced... a complete different profile. Again it's not only me saying it, José said it just yesterday...

My point is - as a RM fan I can say - in 2010 (from Aug-Dec) the team was still a mess tactically. Pellegrini was sacked basically because of yet another terrible CL result and a very embarrassing early exit in Copa del Rey. The team had great talents and when Mourinho arrived he of course brought a few more names, but that team while great technically, was still lost tactically. What tactics should we use to capitalize the talent we had? Let's not forget this is La Liga - the level of competition doesn't compare to the EPL and still they struggled to find a pattern and a style of playing. Until the 5-0 we were leaders and after that disaster the team was emotionally unstable, they lacked confidence and the main reason they continued to win is because a team like that playing against Mallorca, Levante, Hércules ( ), Deportivo, Almería, Getafe, etc would of course win. But we had problems, we struggled, it took José a long while to define and establish a pattern, a style and see what really worked given the players we had. That team changed Mourinho. He tried to emulate what he did in Inter (which was much closer to what he did in Chelsea), but he couldn't because he had completely different players in his hands. The squad itself presented a challenge to him and it took him a while (and an embarrassing loss to Barça) to understand that what he did here and in Inter wouldn't work with that profile of squad.

I remember vividly that season, I've followed Madrid very closely because I was excited to have Mou managing yet another team I supported. It took him months and we were very lucky with the teams we had on UCL (Lyon and Spurs). It wasn't until February-March that the team finally seemed to have settled and for Mourinho to learn how to work with a squad that was so prone to attack, fast, talented in every position (from the pivot on) and with the second best player in the world. But before that he tried ball possession, he tried tikitaka, he tried two strikers, one striker, he tried a lot of things, until he realized what Madrid did best was counter-attack and fast paced football. We had more possession than opponents, but we were in no way a tikitaka kind of football. It took time for him to find the balance and for the team get used to the new tactics and that was a team that had a lot of players on their peak (Casillas, Ramos, Marcelo, Alonso, Cristiano, di María, Higuaín and players on verge of peaking such as Benzema and Ozil - although some would say they were already peaking).

When Mourinho came to England the rest of the teams had to raise their level to compete with his team. And that improvement is still there for a couple of top clubs and the smaller clubs can be challenging because the league is very physical. Which league (among the big ones) is more unpredictable (or competitive) than the Premier League? La Liga and Bundesliga are all about two teams, Italy currently is about Juve and someone else that won't really threaten them but will still be much better than the rest. The rest (including Portuguese, French and Dutch leagues) are 2nd tier leagues. Winning in England is harder.

I prefer to keep my titles expectations low and look forward to this team progressing, maturing and taking the first steps into marking a generation in a couple of years. Everything beyond that is icing the cake. I have no doubts we'll be a force to reckon with next year and in a couple more we'll be the 'it' team. That's one thing missing in Mourinho's resume and it's great that Roman seems to aim the same. Whether they'll succeed or not, is yet to be seen, but I think we have all tools to make it happen and until then I'm prepared to see a lot of rotation, experiments and adjustments and hopefully titles mixed with all of it. It does help ManUtd has a new coach in nearly 3 decades and that ManCity pressed the reset button again.

btw, I saw his post by Cicero and not only I completely agree I think it's very pertinent too.

That is why I find it amusing how we are sometimes labeled as 'clear' favorites for the title.

His current reign with us is much more difficult than what he did with us back in 04-07. Back then, he built a team of players that were in their prime and established a strong stabilized core. Instant success.

Now he has a group of young talented players that he must develop and organize together to create the next generation of CFC. He's stated that he plans on developing youth prospects and to give this club the stability it's been missing, for that, Jose has my full backing and support.

I just hope some of the fans tone down on the pathetic knee jerk reactions if we somehow finish lower than we should, knowing that this squad is in transition, which it desperately needs.

Stability > Instant success

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it's also funny we were talking about this being or not a transition season just last week when we've been talking about this subject even before the problems arose. That post I talked about transition a few people liked and agreed with (click in the little balloons to go to the original post). The struggles aren't surprising... the struggles were expected, the transition talk and the required time to make this work talk were here before the problems, basically before the season even started. I stand by my words in that post. I expect to see his team shaped in February-March

[ZOS 580]

I know this has been said quite a lot but, as long as we don't fix the pivot or change line up, we won't get any better ever ... in his current position, lampard will never be as good as dembele, paulinho, fernandiniho or even arteta ...