The Mourinho Thread

[Vybz Kartel 1,613]

The myth about Mourinho being a suppa genius of football tactics seems a picture from a distant past. Its really shocking to realize the 2015 Mourinho is only a shadow of the once Special One. Even people who hated the guy couldn't deny there wasn't a better manager in the world to win you big things.

Say whatever you want, his years with Madrid were a failure. For a second season in a row, the team is completely outplayed in UCL knockout-stage. To be quite honest, 2013 season aside, we had our worst UCL exits under Mourinho mk II. Outplayed at home for two seasons in a row. 3-1 and now a 2-2 playing with 10 men for 90 minutes.

I can't believe some people still believe its still about tik-taka vs pragmatic football. This is not pragmatical football, its a bad attempt of being conservative and lethal at the same time. We are not talking about 4-2 against Barcelona 10 years ago. Its also really annoying when every time you talk bad things about Mourinho, someone will say "Jose out, a supid name in".

I feel in the long term we probably need another manager, Jose is a short term solution, who might bring trophies in the short run, but in the long run will not improve the team. His regressed as a coach and seems to be afraid to lose rather than to win, something which has cost him dearly in the last 5 years. Look at all his knockouts they all have familiar pattens, go away and try not to lose then try to defend at home, he needs to find the right balance between playing for a win and being responsble, at the moment his just being irresponsible with the way his arrogantly setting up a team

[ilovecolombia 25]

The myth about Mourinho being a suppa genius of football tactics seems a picture from a distant past. Its really shocking to realize the 2015 Mourinho is only a shadow of the once Special One. Even people who hated the guy couldn't deny there wasn't a better manager in the world to win you big things.

Say whatever you want, his years with Madrid were a failure. For a second season in a row, the team is completely outplayed in UCL knockout-stage. To be quite honest, 2013 season aside, we had our worst UCL exits under Mourinho mk II. Outplayed at home for two seasons in a row. 3-1 and now a 2-2 playing with 10 men for 90 minutes.

I can't believe some people still believe its still about tik-taka vs pragmatic football. This is not pragmatical football, its a bad attempt of being conservative and lethal at the same time. We are not talking about 4-2 against Barcelona 10 years ago. Its also really annoying when every time you talk bad things about Mourinho, someone will say "Jose out, a supid name in".

It's because defensive football has gone the way of the dinosaur. Jose needs to either adapt or buy the best defenders you can get bar none. And he can't lure them. Or find players in the world at that level. Hummels would put this team on another level.

But we can't get him. He won't leave Dortmund no matter what.

Similarly it's hard to find defensive fullbacks anymore. They're all so offensive. Making the defensive game a lot harder to play.

[Hybrid Angel 2,130]

If Jose really wants to continue with the same approach, then why not just replace Fabregas with Kondogbia, Hazard with Milner, etc? As far as I'm concerned playing this type of game not only minimzes players like them's strength, but costs us a result as well because they are not suited to this style of play.

Its the Ferrari and Fiat deal all over again. Either keep the Ferrari and drive it like one or get a Fiat and drive it like a Fiat.

[Henrique 9,133]

The result of the game against PSG was only a consequence of Mourinho's job since he arrived. Our squad in really unidimensional. We only have a proper striker (who is not on par with the likes of Cavani and Ibra). The defense is a mixture of decadent players, average ones and average ones playing out of position. There is only one proper DM. Our attacking players can't score goals, and don't even try to.

The worst things of all. Some people still believe Mourinho is a tactics master, and that PL still is a powerhouse. The talk is: "Chelsea suffered an unexpected defeat". Really? To be honest PSG squad is way better. They are strong in every area of the field (GK aside).

This squad is perhaps the most lifeless one of the Abramovich era. Its a team that is more concerned about not taking risks than winning the game. No one can deny that at this point.

[didierforever 7,349]

They obviously weren't just ignoring the manager's instructions. Did you ever see Costa ignore Simeone's instructions to press? No it would never happen to him and it wouldn't happen with Jose either. If he wanted Costa and the midfield to press and play with more intensity then they would have but he clearly didn't. Even the pressing we used right at the start of the game seemed pretty half-arsed to me. PSG played around it so easily and still got into dangerous positions but that happens very often so it's not just the players at fault.

so all those times when jose was gesticulating at the players to move up the pitch. shouting and crying at them meant what?

it was pretty evident that he wanted us to press higher up but he simply could not help that players like cesc did not seem to have a care. i remember a moment in the game where costa went to jose and both had their arms in the air looking at the midfielders. after that we did move even further ahead on the pitch but the momentum and the die hadbeen cast.

psg playing around a half-assed pressing of walking players is NOT jose's fault. maybe you can argue that jose should have motivated them but players should not be needing motivation on a CL night with a golden oppurtunity to go thru the quarters.

[hamad138 190]

He needs a proper winger and a midfielder. Oscar and cuardrado are jokes

[ZOS 580]

Hi!

As I said before, I respect the opinions of all of us. A world with the same opinions would be terribly sad.

To me I liked the approach of Jose. But the double value of the goals was decisive. If we had attacked without care for our defense, they would have killed us before.

We have lost through two headed goals. Two corners. Two goals unstoppable.

We have been close to passing the tie, and if I supported Jose for his way of understanding football before the match, now more than ever I insist that I defend in as Jose makes the approaches of the matches.

But I understand what you say when perfectly. They are just different views. For me Jose has been good, but for you he has not been good. Perfect. But we're in the same boat and we must continue paddling together.

Regards.

I respect your views too.

you say you like Jose's understanding of the game. Good, so I take it you have your own understanding of his philosophy regarding 'big' games. Please make me understand this. Why is it, when ever we're facing a half good team, we're always, ALWAYS, the one to back off and play it safe? Why is it, out of ten or so games a year where we'll be facing so called big teams, we are the one to be cautious and reactive, trying to exploit mistakes and counter attack? why not them, sometimes? because we're clever and they're not? if it is not cowardice, then what is it?

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

If Jose really wants to continue with the same approach, then why not just replace Fabregas with Kondogbia, Hazard with Milner, etc? As far as I'm concerned playing this type of game not only minimzes players like them's strength, but costs us a result as well because they are not suited to this style of play.

Its the Ferrari and Fiat deal all over again. Either keep the Ferrari and drive it like one or get a Fiat and drive it like a Fiat.

Thinking the same. I got no problems with a bit of bus parking and counter attacking. But if we want to do so why not set up for this. Play a compact, counter-oriented system like last season vs Mancity away in the league. apart from the dismal finishing, that was a blueprint of modern football. pace, power and lightning transition. After the arrivals of Remy and Cuadrado we are even better equipped for that.

My theory is that mourinho does not even want us to look like parking the bus all the fuckin time, but it is more of a necessity. OUr defense is rather slow and immobile hence playing deep hence our midfielders keep tracking back all the way hence our attacks start from too deep with too knackered players and the opposition have time to defend. When was the last time we actually scored from a counter attack? we have a defender who can't defend (ivanovic) but is ok at attacking who needs to be covered by an attacker who can't attack.This alone would be kafkaesque enough. But it goes further. Our so called no.10 is more of a disguised DM who has to cover for the real no10 playing at DM because he needs spaceor the game in front of him or whatever. That leaves our only two players with the license and ability to actually score, Costa and Hazard.

My take is that we should simply get some Chelsea quality defenders in so our attackers can actually attack instead of spending the whole match defending around the corner flag to cover up for some defensively inept full- and centrebacks.

[Polo7 3,496]

Mourinho to be sacked...? He no longer understands the game? Lol you lot are pathetic. Yeah we lost a game we shouldn't have but it happens in football. We want the stability of having a brilliant coach for more than 1 or 2 years. Your all a bunch of glory hunters who can't handle defeats.

[didierforever 7,349]

Mourinho to be sacked...? He no longer understands the game? Lol you lot are pathetic. Yeah we lost a game we shouldn't have but it happens in football. We want the stability of having a brilliant coach for more than 1 or 2 years. Your all a bunch of glory hunters who can't handle defeats.

i made a mistake of quoting "mrblueguy" who supposedly thinks that klopp (relegation zone in bundesliga) and simeone who cant win an away game if his life depended on it.

like u said, we lost a game we should not have and he should be critisized (though i put the majority of blame on the players). but any nincompoop who asks for a league cup and 5 points top of the table with a game hand, manager to be sacked is not worth the time and effort.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

I must be some clown... but it makes me happy.

I like your posts. Don't listen to that geezer..

[ZOS 580]

Mourinho to be sacked...? He no longer understands the game? Lol you lot are pathetic. Yeah we lost a game we shouldn't have but it happens in football. We want the stability of having a brilliant coach for more than 1 or 2 years. Your all a bunch of glory hunters who can't handle defeats.

yes, no one should want him get sacked and it's true that we need stability. But there's no way out around the issue being raised here other than admitting that he is an out right coward in big games. Why does it always have to be us to back-off and be cautious when meeting these teams? Ten times out of ten, in big games, Chelsea is certainly the one to be extra cautious and play the reactive role. Why?

[GraphicWave 7]

yes, no one should want him get sacked and it's true that we need stability. But there's no way out around the issue being raised here other than admitting that he is an out right coward in big games. Why does it always have to be us to back-off and be cautious when meeting these teams? Ten times out of ten, in big games, Chelsea is certainly the one to be extra cautious and play the reactive role. Why?

That's what Mourinho needs to adjust, and since he is not stupid (finger crossed) he will change from now on. You can't win the Champions League by parking the bus in every single match (we were already lucky once, it's time play with some balls).

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Mourinho beats a lot of teams because he is the best at detecting opposition tactics and finding a way to stop it.

This is how Mourinho always beats wenger, Ferguson and Rodgers. He knows what they will do, he knows how they'll play, he knows they'll stick to their philosophy. So Mourinho plans how to stop the philosophy and then give freedom to 3-4 players to do what they like (not what they practiced)

The thing with mourinho is that he too has become predictable.

Every top manager in Europe now knows he wants to sit back and let only 3 players counter.

In a big match, I already know before facing him that he'll not practice the counter attack pattern, I already know that it's only the defensive shape he will train his players to do.

So I don't need to stop the tactics, I just need to make the few players he gave freedom have a difficult time.

This stopping of the attacking players is even more easy than it is supposed to be because the players are attacking with what they feel, instead of what they practiced.

If they practiced a few attacking patterns, our attack will be faster since it is rehearsed. With this knowledge, I think Mourinho needs to hire an attacking coach. There is no shame in this, Ferguson the greatest manager did this, and a lot of other coaches.

If Mourinho knows how to stop opponents tactics, imagine how much better we'll be if someone handles the attacking approach so that it'll be faster and look like something rehearsed.

This is my opinion on how Mourinho can improve

[Polo7 3,496]

yes, no one should want him get sacked and it's true that we need stability. But there's no way out around the issue being raised here other than admitting that he is an out right coward in big games. Why does it always have to be us to back-off and be cautious when meeting these teams? Ten times out of ten, in big games, Chelsea is certainly the one to be extra cautious and play the reactive role. Why?

He was going apeshit on the touch line telling his players to press forward? He put two strikers on during extra time. Coward how? A man can only do so much. Players are just as much to blame as manager.

[Fulham Broadway 17,810]

The players have to take the lions share of responsibility.

People want perfection and football doesn't work like that. We've lost three matches all season, it happens to even the best managers. Let's not lose perspective.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

On the match yesterday, I knew it was a disaster the moment i saw a red card.

This meant our players didn't know whether to stick to the original plan of defence and counter or attack because the opponent had red card. Mourinho should have told them to stick with the pressing, stick with the quick play but he clearly told them to slow down. I don't know why, but that's what it is.

If Mourinho's only tactics is to soak pressure and hit people on the break, then fabregas is useless to him. He can't defend and can't run on the counter so he should have been subbed off and not oscar. This is one of the reasons we've become worse than last season in the big games, we're playing with one less defensive player instead of the huge luiz - Matic pivot, we now use fabregas and ramires who are far smaller for midfield battle. PSG were big players and instead of having luiz or mikel to defend setpieces we now have fabregas or Ramires. Mourinho should get more physical players if he wants his current big game tactics to work. This team is the weakest team in defending, height and jump he's ever managed imo.

As for the reaction, If we lose while playing well, the fans can have something to hold onto. But if we lose while playing terrible the coach has to take whatever comes to him so Mourinho deserves every criticism he gets.

[Eggman 118]

So those in favor of Mou point out the good results in the league and the cup win, fair enough. If we went through against PSG, they would probably say that we shouldn't doubt his tactics and so on. And to be fair, we could have just as easily been through, although we played like shit. That's the way José's tactics work: small margins, lots of contingency.

The problem is that the differences are too small, which is a risky game to play. Mou has had too much success with this strategy in the past. He won't change it. H's an old dog that's been around and won't learn any new tricks. Last year, in the big matches, it turned out good for us most of the time: we kept it closed and scored some sucker punch goals, which got us the results in the big games. This year, nothing changed: we do the same tricks, but it has cost us many times. That has nothing to do with "players not giving their all". It is the nature of the game: sometimes, you luck out, sometimes the card that can burn you is turned at the river. Poker players suggest that in the long run though, this sort of calculated tactics will make you a (marginal) winner.

So yes, these Italian-style parking the bus sort of thing can get you results, if properly executed.

But it's just so fucking boring and ugly to watch.

Those who hide behind the results are free to do so: if that's all that matters to you. I'm not all into "winning trophies", as if that's the sole reason to support a team. I want to win trophies in style. That's something completely different. Okay, Greece was European Champions once, but everyone remembers them as a bunch of negative and lucky cunts - a defeat for football in general. It doesn't mean shit. And certainly not that "they were the best" that year. Winning trophies doesn't make you "winners", all of a sudden. Greatness isn't just winning trophies. Think of the Holland team in Cruyff's era: they didn't go all the way, but will always be associated with an enthralling and innovative style of football that changed the way the game is played. Or take the Brazil 1982 team, who baffled the world with their style of play (Zico and Sokratés!) although they never won the WC.

Those who don't mind how they get results, as long as we do get results, do they actually like to watch football? And for what reasons? If the manner in which you achieve a goal doesn't count, then why not skip watching the game and just look up the results afterwards?

I watch the game for moments of brilliance and free-flowing play. We have seen that at times, this season, between Fab, Eddie, Costa and Willian. But not nearly enough, and that's due to Mou's poker style defensive calculation tactics.

Don't get me wrong, I want us to be champions so badly, and I honestly think we deserve to be as well. But I deplore the lack of courage and just general joy in play exhibited by this Chelsea team in the big matches. I want us to dominate, be confident and just crush our opponents.

For those who made it through: thanks for reading. Needed to get that off my chest.

[supporter 3,088]

I respect your views too.

you say you like Jose's understanding of the game. Good, so I take it you have your own understanding of his philosophy regarding 'big' games. Please make me understand this. Why is it, when ever we're facing a half good team, we're always, ALWAYS, the one to back off and play it safe? Why is it, out of ten or so games a year where we'll be facing so called big teams, we are the one to be cautious and reactive, trying to exploit mistakes and counter attack? why not them, sometimes? because we're clever and they're not? if it is not cowardice, then what is it?

Hi friend!

Thanks for your answer.

It's true what you say. If, when the big games come Jose always used a conservative strategy. For some more conservative, for others less conservative. But always conservative or, as I prefer to say, a pragmatic approach.

I think Jose is trying to make a future project with us. Maybe I like what did Alex Ferguson at Manchester United. But that is not done in two days, we need time.

When Jose returned with us, we we had won the UEFA League, being eliminated in the group stage of the Champions League and classifying them for the Champions League miracle.

Now everything is different. We fight for the Premier League with head high, at the top of the leaderboard. Last year fight for Premier League until the end.

In addition, we now try to compete in all the cups, we have won the League Cup and in a moment of madness, we fell eliminated in Fa Cup.

Step by step we get to the other teams respect us as we deserve. Right now in England we have the hegemony of English football.

I know that Mourinho can play "better". In fact, Jose has played better with us and other teams. I remember when Jose arrived at Real Madrid, I used to use a ultra defensive strategies.

In his first year at Real Madrid, Jose stand against Barcelona Guardiola's a large bus in the box. But that had a meaning: Real Madrid was light years ahead of that Barcelona. The distance between the teams was huge enough to try to compete with Barcelona face to face.

Instead, Jose was slowly changing its approach and succeeded, in his third season, face Barcelona face to face and outplay them.

The reason was that anxiety to win titles of Real Madrid was diluted, disappeared. They won the Spanish Cup and the Spanish Liga and, last season, despite problems with certain players from Real Madrid, Jose managed to win at Barcelona.

What I mean is that we now need to accumulate trophies, either way, to get to have a big name in Europe. That name (the respect of the other top teams) can only be achieved by winning as many trophies possible. Perhaps the League Cup trophy is a small but great teams across Europe have seen John Terry lifting another trophy.

Real Madrid often wins with its history, we have to produce that story and we are that way.

For Arsenal, Manchester City or Liverpool is easier to pose a more aesthetic football if they lose anyone would feel cheated. Instead, a defeat for us is like a shot in the head. We are a big club and our requirements are larger.

So I think Jose is now at a stage of trying to earn trophies for Chelsea to get the respect (and fear) of our rivals.

Then, step by step, we can raise more offensive or aesthetic approaches because our opponents will fear us. But to achieve that we need to eliminate anxiety about the absence of titles. If this year we we had not won anything this anxiety would be stifling.

But if we win this year's League Cup and (hopefully) Premier League next season we will be able to play more relaxed without any feelings of despair.

Yesterday, regardless of how fortunate

or unfortunate approach Jose, we were a few minutes of qualifying for the next round. In addition, yesterday we been removed by a team with great players, PSG is not a mediocre team.

In short, if we are trying to build a great team, a new team for many years, and we can not be in a hurry, we have to be patient and slowly try making progress.

First. Earn trophies and recover the hegemony of English football.

Second. Go incorporating new great young players in our starting eleven. Courtois first, second and Kurt Zouma (maybe / hopefully) Ruben Loftus-Cheek next year.

Third. Changing approaches to create more aggressive, vertical, and finalente parties raise more offensive games and get suffocate our rivals to win overwhelmingly.

This is a slow process, but step by step we can become the leading English team and one of the best teams in Europe. Maybe in ten years we have a similar name as Liverpool or Manchester United.

But that can only be achieved step by step. If we give abrupt changes of direction every two years we will probably go banging on our faces every few years.

I think we have to give our trust to Jose and allow him work in peace. Jose is not here for money. If it were only for money, Jose would be at Real Madrid, PSG and Anzhi Makhachkala. Jose wants this team and he wants to get the best for us.

If we change course now we probably just will place more close to failure than from success.

Today, as yesterday, it is a sad day, but we are building something big. We have to be together. BLUES ALL TOGETHER.

Regards.

Regards to ALL.

[ZOS 580]

He was going apeshit on the touch line telling his players to press forward? He put two strikers on during extra time. Coward how? A man can only do so much. Players are just as much to blame as manager.

but, how many times have we seen this happen? he was shouting alright, but none of us can be sure what he was saying to them, now can we?

he is saying the players couldn't handle the pressure of playing at home, having number advantage and the expectation that comes with it. I can dig that.. That could be a factor but it can't be a major one.

It's obvious that the plan was, like we always do in big games, to wait for mistakes. Having a man sent off, PSG got extra careful and we didn't have answer for that.

I'm not mad because of the result. I was the first to defend him when we lost against Tottenham because and I would've said the exact same thing even if we weren't knocked out.

I still would appreciate it if you could answer me why we are always the one to back off in big games every single time and not the other teams.