Willian

[Rom2013 446]

-->The person who made this team knows nothing about football

-->De Bruyne was a disaster.

-->Oscar, after displacing Mata in the team, was not good enough.

-->Willian is a winger.

-->Willian is our most complete and consistent AM.

-->He's a good option to start 25 games as a 4th AM

-->He'll have a better season as a whole than Oscar

Dude....what????

Mourinho signed Willian, Costa, Luis, Fabregas and recalled Courtois (and Salah) to create "This team." It is a completely different side than the 2012-13 team and in every way better. Plus, as an aside, HE GOT TORRES AWAY FROM THE TEAM. The bedrock of this team was in place and has formed a solid (not impermeable) foundation. De Bruyne was sold for a profit and is doing well for himself, not one ounce of disaster in that whole situation. Barring the end of last year, Oscar is/was a very good AM. Is he a #10? Maybe, maybe not. But he fits into Mourinho's team like a glove. Willian doesn't have the direct wide play of a winger. He drifts wide to create space, but everything comes back inside with him. He is in no way shape or form our most complete AM, he is ineffective in the final third but works his socks off in the middle and in defense. The final third is an integral area for an AM to be deemed effective. See, Hazard. There is nothing to say that demonstrates he is going to have a better season than Oscar. Oscar has his flaws and I'll be the first to agree with them. The balance that he brings to the team is invaluable.

...and lastly how does he start 25 games as a 4th AM when we play with 3 at any given time?

The person who built the team before Mourinho knows nothing about football. That team had Hazard, Moses, Malouda, Piazon, Oscar, Mata, Marin and also bought De Bruyne. Something like 4 number 10 players but in a normal team only 1 can play, and only 1 decent winger but a normal team should play with 2 wingers, About De Bruyne he was a disaster... it's the reality.

"Oscar gives balance"... while "Willian is ineffective in the final third"... Yes, I love the way you try to say that Oscar is horrible in attack because he gives balance, and Willian is horribe in attack because he is shit. It makes a lot of sense.

Today Oscar fits like a glove on the bench. In the last 4 games in 3 he was on the bench. In the last 2 games away from home that Oscar played we didn't win and Oscar did absolutely nothing. It was so bad that at the minute 60 Mourinho had to substitute him. Do you remember what happened last season with Oscar?

Willian is the most consistent AM we have by far (Oscar last season was on vacations for 4 months and already started his vacations this season), Schurrle can't do a decent game when he is in the starting eleven, and Hazard sometimes seems like Messi and others he is not there at all.

But more important than all of that in 2013/2014 we needed wingers, and that was the reason why we bought WIllian.

[rantdeville 195]

The person who built the team before Mourinho knows nothing about football.

-The "person" that built the team before Mourinho...in reference to the players that you listed, dude that was like 3 or 4 different managers. That "person," if you must (within the time frame of those aforementioned players) won the Premier League, the FA Cup, the Europa Cup (among others)...and that one trophy with the big ears, you might have seen it.

-And this de Bruyne thing...scapegoat someone else cuz it's shaking up your whole argument. He was purchased for 7m Euro and sold for 19.36m. Good business, any way you slice it. We were fine without him, he became a full-fledged international and is ripping the Bundesliga.

-Seriously, dude? "Yes, I love how you try to say that Oscar is horrible in attack because he gives balance, and Willian is horrible in attack because he is shit." You're making it up. I didn't say that. I said Oscar is a good AM, he is debatable as a #10 (because he lacks the incisive vision that Mata had) but he has different responsibilities under Mourinho.

-And in fairness to your initial post which I ignored until now, I agree that Willian was signed to provide an option wide, but it's just that I'm reluctant to call him a winger.

-But I will agree that he is consistent, he is consistent in that he does not provide goals, either directly or through assists. That doesn't make him a bad player it just doesn't make him a great winger/attacking mid/wide forward/wide midfielder/second striker/#10/false 9...or we can call the position a "guy-who-spends-most-their-time-in-the-middle-and-final-third-but-not-a-striker."

Oscar's goals/assists, in all comps, since he signed Willian's goals/assist since he signed

2012 - 12/12 2012 - not here

2013 - 11/10 2013 - 4/10

2014 - 4/5 halfway through the season...he's on par to hit his mark 2014 - 2/2 halfway through the season

-Oscar is the mark of consistency, he's not God's gift to football, but I'll give him credit for consistency. If we were to project out the current numbers, Willian would be about half as productive as he was last year, thereby making him the least consistent of the attacking players.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

Willian is the most consistent AM we have by far

Yes, consistently average.

[Barbara 15,149]

We all know who understands nothing about football. It's been proved over and over again...

Moving on...

At least this whole conversation put light on something I missed. I had no idea Willian had 10 assists last year... how come people say he evolved this season? Of course, he's more adapted to the league, but as a sub most part of the season he had 10 assists - which I think is impressive in a first season (that might be way I defended him so much last season).

Now he's been starting nearly every match we play and he has two assists. If that doesn't show how frustrating, ineffective, lost, useless, and downright bad he's been in the final third choices and execution, I don't know what does.

I do recognize and praise him for his stamina, energy, work rate, but he's an AM he has to offer more to the actual attack.

Oscar has always been highly criticized around here - and much of the criticism has been fair and I agree - and the the main criticism was that how he creates nothing for us as an AM/#10. Willian gets away with much worse return in the attack... I know the fact that Oscar led Mata to be dropped and then offloaded is what irritated people the most, but as limited as he can be, Oscar has been offering more than Willian in the attack consistently (except during his terrible second half of season earlier this year).

Willian must improve, we can't have an AM that starts nearly all our matches in the season, to have only two assists and a very low number of chances created - at least chances created that matter, as I particularly hate how sloppy that stat can be.

[Rom2013 446]

Yes, consistently average.

Oscar is increadible. This game was again wonderfull. Like all the season he is doing.

Oh my God, Oscar gives so much in the final third.

[DYC. 7,542]

We all know who understands nothing about football. It's been proved over and over again...

Moving on...

At least this whole conversation put light on something I missed. I had no idea Willian had 10 assists last year... how come people say he evolved this season? Of course, he's more adapted to the league, but as a sub most part of the season he had 10 assists - which I think is impressive in a first season (that might be way I defended him so much last season).

Now he's been starting nearly every match we play and he has two assists. If that doesn't show how frustrating, ineffective, lost, useless, and downright bad he's been in the final third choices and execution, I don't know what does.

I do recognize and praise him for his stamina, energy, work rate, but he's an AM he has to offer more to the actual attack.

Oscar has always been highly criticized around here - and much of the criticism has been fair and I agree - and the the main criticism was that how he creates nothing for us as an AM/#10. Willian gets away with much worse return in the attack... I know the fact that Oscar led Mata to be dropped and then offloaded is what irritated people the most, but as limited as he can be, Oscar has been offering more than Willian in the attack consistently (except during his terrible second half of season earlier this year).

Willian must improve, we can't have an AM that starts nearly all our matches in the season, to have only two assists and a very low number of chances created - at least chances created that matter, as I particularly hate how sloppy that stat can be.

7 assists for Chelsea, 3 for Anzhi.

[WNDS 502]

I thought he improved upon his past few performances quite significantly and played well today. He could easily have been dropped for this match, but (like Oscar and Ivanovic) his contribution to our general system of play is evidently valued highly enough by Mourinho to ensure that he is at least partly forgiven for the unflattering aspects of his game. This will probably continue to be the case until the team as a whole begins to struggle for goals, in which case I would imagine that Schurrle will get more starts.

We all know who understands nothing about football. It's been proved over and over again...

Moving on...

At least this whole conversation put light on something I missed. I had no idea Willian had 10 assists last year... how come people say he evolved this season? Of course, he's more adapted to the league, but as a sub most part of the season he had 10 assists - which I think is impressive in a first season (that might be way I defended him so much last season).

Now he's been starting nearly every match we play and he has two assists. If that doesn't show how frustrating, ineffective, lost, useless, and downright bad he's been in the final third choices and execution, I don't know what does.

I do recognize and praise him for his stamina, energy, work rate, but he's an AM he has to offer more to the actual attack.

Oscar has always been highly criticized around here - and much of the criticism has been fair and I agree - and the the main criticism was that how he creates nothing for us as an AM/#10. Willian gets away with much worse return in the attack... I know the fact that Oscar led Mata to be dropped and then offloaded is what irritated people the most, but as limited as he can be, Oscar has been offering more than Willian in the attack consistently (except during his terrible second half of season earlier this year).

Willian must improve, we can't have an AM that starts nearly all our matches in the season, to have only two assists and a very low number of chances created - at least chances created that matter, as I particularly hate how sloppy that stat can be.

Willian's stats for last season actually read as 4 goals and 7 assists in all competitions, and this season he has 2 goals and 3 assists at the half-way point; he's on course for very similar totals.

I would suggest that your more negative assessment of his contribution this season when compared with last season is possibly due to Willian not yet having produced a genuinely excellent and memorable performance against the better teams that we have faced this campaign. Last season he was superb (or at least very good) against Liverpool (home), Man City (away), PSG (home), and Man United (home), whilst this season his best performances have been against Villa (home), Maribor (home), and Schalke (away); only the Schalke game was a 'big' game, and that was only because of its context. Having said this, it's worth bearing in mind that all of Willian's 'big game performances' came in the second half of last season.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

We all know who understands nothing about football. It's been proved over and over again...

Moving on...

At least this whole conversation put light on something I missed. I had no idea Willian had 10 assists last year... how come people say he evolved this season? Of course, he's more adapted to the league, but as a sub most part of the season he had 10 assists - which I think is impressive in a first season (that might be way I defended him so much last season).

Now he's been starting nearly every match we play and he has two assists. If that doesn't show how frustrating, ineffective, lost, useless, and downright bad he's been in the final third choices and execution, I don't know what does.

It's not even about assists though, because that can be misleading at times as it's dependent on whether other players can take the chance or not . Created chances/key passes is a fairer criteria to measure creative produce, and Willian is equally poor in that category and in all categories required of an attacking player. Goals, assists, created chances, key passes, everything is lacking. And his dribbling ability is exaggerated as he hardly ever beats players, if you watch him closely. It's obvious that Willian is not Chelsea first XI standard and neither is Schurrle. I won't take sides with any player. He's being outperformed by players like Tadic and Downing. Says it all.

http://http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2014/2015/willian/126/126/7145/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/dusan_tadic/126/126/7763/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/alexis_sánchez/126/126/1581/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/stewart_downing/126/126/78/49/p|premier_league/2014/2015/oscar/126/126/3129/0/p#attack_score/total_forward_passes/key_passes/chances_created/assists/goals_scored/successful_take_ons/successful_take_ons_%#total

[Rom2013 446]

We all know who understands nothing about football. It's been proved over and over again...

Moving on...

At least this whole conversation put light on something I missed. I had no idea Willian had 10 assists last year... how come people say he evolved this season? Of course, he's more adapted to the league, but as a sub most part of the season he had 10 assists - which I think is impressive in a first season (that might be way I defended him so much last season).

Now he's been starting nearly every match we play and he has two assists. If that doesn't show how frustrating, ineffective, lost, useless, and downright bad he's been in the final third choices and execution, I don't know what does.

I do recognize and praise him for his stamina, energy, work rate, but he's an AM he has to offer more to the actual attack.

Oscar has always been highly criticized around here - and much of the criticism has been fair and I agree - and the the main criticism was that how he creates nothing for us as an AM/#10. Willian gets away with much worse return in the attack... I know the fact that Oscar led Mata to be dropped and then offloaded is what irritated people the most, but as limited as he can be, Oscar has been offering more than Willian in the attack consistently (except during his terrible second half of season earlier this year).

Willian must improve, we can't have an AM that starts nearly all our matches in the season, to have only two assists and a very low number of chances created - at least chances created that matter, as I particularly hate how sloppy that stat can be.

LOL. Oscar did 2 assists in the last league. He is our number 10 and did 2 assists.

Maybe we can't have a player that did 2 assists until now in the league like WIllian, but for you we can have a number 10 that did 2 assists in the last League.

We can talk all you want about the marvelous games from Oscar in this last month and a half, or in the season. Maybe about last season when he was on vacatios for 4 months.

It's really cool to see how the same people that think Oscar is increadible are the same that say Willian needs to improve a lot. We can't take that seriously.

[BleedsBlue 1,549]

I understand that his primary role as a winger should be to assist and score goals but his defensive work rate is just phenomenal. I feel he gets massively criticised here because Hazard on the other wing performs so well.

The truth is that Hazard is better player and is on course to becoming one of the greats of the game. Willian gets picked because he tracks back a lot and can add support to our attacking players. Schurrle is better offensively but can not match Willian behind the half line and hence has to settle for a squad player role.

Honestly I believe if Willian had the opportunity to just play his natural game and not worry about helping out his defenders then he would be a better player. I am sure he would be much more appreciated by everyone if he had signed for Spurs instead.

[Rom2013 446]

It's not even about assists though, because that can be misleading at times as it's dependent on whether other players can take the chance or not . Created chances/key passes is a fairer criteria to measure creative produce, and Willian is equally poor in that category and in all categories required of an attacking player. Goals, assists, created chances, key passes, everything is lacking. And his dribbling ability is exaggerated as he hardly ever beats players, if you watch him closely. It's obvious that Willian is not Chelsea first XI standard and neither is Schurrle. I won't take sides with any player. He's being outperformed by players like Tadic and Downing. Says it all.

http://http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2014/2015/willian/126/126/7145/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/dusan_tadic/126/126/7763/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/alexis_sánchez/126/126/1581/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/stewart_downing/126/126/78/49/p|premier_league/2014/2015/oscar/126/126/3129/0/p#attack_score/total_forward_passes/key_passes/chances_created/assists/goals_scored/successful_take_ons/successful_take_ons_%#total

Can you put here the numbers of Oscar and Willian last season in that same categories? Where is the difference bnetween the 2?

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Can you put here the numbers of Oscar and Willian last season in that same categories? Where is the difference bnetween the 2?

That's for both last season and this season in the premier league. Both were equally average last season. Oscar scored more goals but Willian created more chances. This season, Oscar is outperforming him in every relevant category. That's what we're saying. Most people here hates Willian, or any Chelsea player for that matter. Don't take it personally.

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2013/2014/willian/126/64/7145/0/p|premier_league/2013/2014/oscar/126/64/3129/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/willian/126/126/7145/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/oscar/126/126/3129/0/p#attack_score/total_forward_passes/key_passes/chances_created/goals_scored/assists/total_shots/successful_take_ons/successful_take_ons_%#total

[hjperdeath 2,226]

I haven't been active lately due to my personal schedule, but damn. What a brilliant tactical performance. Hope he keeps improving.

[Barbara 15,149]

My problem with him is that he could do much better than that because he has tons of talent and flair.

At the end of the day we shouldn't play both him and Oscar in the same matches, as while they offer a lot of work rate they have creative shortcomings, the thing is Oscar has been having a much better season. So we should rotate them, but avoid playing both at the same time.

He was better in some aspects today, but his decision making was still frustrating as heck. It seems he has 0 football brains, seriously, I can't name it any other way. And he's missed one meter passes in the final third that had me hitting my head on the wall.

I think when we play Mikel instead of Oscar it gets even worse. And whoever says he's been better than Oscar this season probably has been watching another team, or something, while Oscar hasn't been brilliant, he's been very good in many matches, Willian has been average in the final third most the matches he's played. And it seems he doesn't remember how to finish anymore

[Cescy 40]

Can you put here the numbers of Oscar and Willian last season in that same categories? Where is the difference bnetween the 2?

The biggest difference is that Oscar has improved and Willian hasn't.

[Spike 12,049]

I feel like I should warn every person that uses the tired old insult "you know nothing of football". Sick of reading it every thread.

[Styles 9,790]

This is really strange - I thought Willian had a good game and was a large part of why we were so utterly dominant in the first half. I can't quite believe what I'm reading to be honest.

Willian is the most unfaily maligned player in the team now that Mikel is no longer in the 11.

[iseah100 5,612]

I thought he was pretty good today. Hmm.