Willian

[Elran 58]

Are you serious? It's acceptable that your right winger, one of the 3 most attacking players in the team, has no contribution at all in attack? Not only no assists and goals (apart from one in the Aston Villa game at home), but he is just hardly involved in any dangerous attack at all. That's maybe acceptable if you are one of the back 5 but not as RW, however even JT proved more valuable in attack then Willian. Also in an attacking position you have defensive responsibilities and it is great Willian puts in a great effort in those, but it is nonsense that without Willian we have no balance in our squad.

Btw I agree that Willian is in general good in tracking back, but the 2nd Spurs goal was scored by their left back with Willian nowhere near him.

[DH1988 1,199]

Are you serious? It's acceptable that your right winger, one of the 3 most attacking players in the team, has no contribution at all in attack? Not only no assists and goals (apart from one in the Aston Villa game at home), but he is just hardly involved in any dangerous attack at all. That's maybe acceptable if you are one of the back 5 but not as RW, however even JT proved more valuable in attack then Willian. Also in an attacking position you have defensive responsibilities and it is great Willian puts in a great effort in those, but it is nonsense that without Willian we have no balance in our squad.

Btw I agree that Willian is in general good in tracking back, but the 2nd Spurs goal was scored by their left back with Willian nowhere near him.

Oh the left back, got you, Nothing to do with the errors leading up to the goal? Blaming Matic too for being pulled wide by eriksen leaving space all game, or him being rolled by Kane perhaps? No because he was obviously asked to pick him up, we then let's blame the other CM right? Team.

Share the blame, as a team we rely on work rate, pressing and tactical/situational awareness, something we lacked as a team yesterday.

Willian is asked to run like a mad man for 90 minutes, closing, pressing, linking play. Is he perfect!? No, has he improved on last year? Yes, just like others have, patience.

We essentially play a back three with iva as a right winger when Willian plays for the aerial diagonal ball from the ball or deep central midfield, why? Because Willians work rate.

Sorry just tiresome reading the same dribble after a loss it's like pinning the blame on a few when it was a collective dire performance including the manager. It happens.. No need for Omg Omg Omg reus NOW NOW NOW BUY A RW, BUY A CB.

The over reaction and spoilt attitudes are real. My rudeness is not aimed at you, more a general frustration toward the same posts/blame game so I apologise if it comes across that way.

[lionsden 4,689]

Which is my point - after that it comes down to personal preference. Obviously the numbers favour Oscar but personally I prefer Willian.

I understand where you are coming from and we share the same sentiment. Willian is more technically gifted and keeps possession much better. In fact after hazard, no other player comes close to him as far as managing posession in tight spaces but at the same time, football is a result based business and a club of our size and ambition requires productive players in the final third in order to compete with the big boys. All of our AM bar hazard and fabregas are essentially offensive passengers.

[Elran 58]

My remark of the 2nd Spurs goal was an answer to Oscar, because I disagree with him saying that Willian had a decent game yesterday. But DH1988 you're only reading the Willian thread? Cahill and Iva are slaughtered after yesterday and Matic is criticised as well. And to say it here again: Willian wasn't the worst player yesterday indeed.

I'm not criticising Willian for yesterday, but for his 20 matches this season. And I don't think we will agree, because we expect different things from Willian as a right winger. For me he is in a position where he has to contribute in attack and that's just not the case. You name Willian's strong points and I agree with them, but again it's just not what I expect from our right winger. And as I said I don't think the balance in our squad will be gone with a right winger who is more dangerous, but with less work rate. And yes Willian will probably improve with Azpi behind him instead of Iva, but I doubt he will become a scoring/assisting player and we lack one of those types imo.

[Styles 9,790]

I understand where you are coming from and we share the same sentiment. Willian is more technically gifted and keeps possession much better. In fact after hazard, no other player comes close to him as far as managing posession in tight spaces...

Technically, Willian is very good, however, he just doesn't use his talent properly. It's a shame because there's no reason why he shouldn't do better; he has all the tools to be more effective.

...but at the same time, football is a result based business and a club of our size and ambition requires productive players in the final third in order to compete with the big boys.

Yeah, productivity is a must, but equally important is a high level of technical ability. Oscar, Schurrle, Salah...come on, man, these guys would be laughed out of the elite European clubs. I've said it before and I'll say it again: for a club of our resources we can and should do better. There's no reason why we have to settle for role-players who wouldn't even be subs at some of the top European clubs. Why should we?

[Shakez 755]

had high hope from him early of the season, but clearly he isn't going to be alot better. Still a usefel squad member to have if we can get a Reus calibre player.

[drog.ba 239]

Getting to the point where we need Ramires fit, or to use Remy on the wing, such is the contribution of Willian as well as Oscar, Schrulle and Salah. It's down to Hazard and Fabregas to create everything

[DYC. 7,542]

Technically, Willian is very good, however, he just doesn't use his talent properly. It's a shame because there's no reason why he shouldn't do better; he has all the tools to be more effective.

Yeah, productivity is a must, but equally important is a high level of technical ability. Oscar, Schurrle, Salah...come on, man, these guys would be laughed out of the elite European clubs. I've said it before and I'll say it again: for a club of our resources we can and should do better. There's no reason why we have to settle for role-players who wouldn't even be subs at some of the top European clubs. Why should we?

What makes Willian's technique very good? He has a fantastic first touch and overall ball control. In every other area of technique he's either decent (decent passing, decent dribbler) or just poor (poor shooter, poor crosser, 0 finishing, poor at taking direct or indirect set-pieces).

He keeps possession well but that's mostly a mental thing, and he takes too many touches for me to rate him highly in that area.

[iseah100 5,612]

"It's okay he provides nothing on the attacking end cause he's important to balance the squad with his workrate." Fuck that. Reus works his ass off and is 100000x better than Willian. This guy wouldn't sniff the bench at RM, Bayern, or Barca. We should have let him go to Tottenham.

[sutro 1,026]

"It's okay he provides nothing on the attacking end cause he's important to balance the squad with his workrate." Fuck that. Reus works his ass off and is 100000x better than Willian. This guy wouldn't sniff the bench at RM, Bayern, or Barca. We should have let him go to Tottenham.

yeah i bet he would have scored 3 against us last night

[OhForAGreavsie 5,776]

...He keeps possession well...

No he doesn't. Very, very few of the ambitious passes Wilian attempts find their intended target. Most often they are misdirected or cut-out. Either way, possession breaks down on him an awful lot.

[Jase 43,479]

No Willian, no balance in the team in the way Jose wants to play that frees our creative players, even Ivanovic down the right side, evident when he doesn't play - whole team was not at the races yesterday.

Couldn't care if he went all season with 0 goals 0 assists as long as I see him charging down people in the 88th minute like I have done almost every time I've seen him when he hasn't been subbed.

Need those worker bees.

We get it. Willian is in the starting XI to provide balance and we aren't exactly disputing that. But let's not pretend as if Mourinho just tells Willian to stay in the defensive half and don't go forward. He's got the license to go forward but when he does, there's nothing productive and decisive coming from him in the final third. What people need to understand here is that, we get his role in the starting XI but we also want more productive return from Willian. Nobody is asking him to be a goal and assist machine, scoring and creating in every game. No. Just contribute more in attack with the goals, assists and other aspects offensively, because let's face it, 2 goals and 2 assists in 24 matches (came in just 2 games) isn't exactly a very impressive return, is it? To make a comparison, look at Oscar. He's also in the team, playing the No.10 role to provide balance and even though he's not exactly very consistent, he's still able to chip in a few goals and assists here and there. If he can do that, then why can't Willian?

[MrBlueGuy 1,552]

We get it. Willian is in the starting XI to provide balance and we aren't exactly disputing that. But let's not pretend as if Mourinho just tells Willian to stay in the defensive half and don't go forward. He's got the license to go forward but when he does, there's nothing productive and decisive coming from him in the final third. What people need to understand here is that, we get his role in the starting XI but we also want more productive return from Willian. Nobody is asking him to be a goal and assist machine, scoring and creating in every game. No. Just contribute more in attack with the goals, assists and other aspects offensively, because let's face it, 2 goals and 2 assists in 24 matches (came in just 2 games) isn't exactly a very impressive return, is it? To make a comparison, look at Oscar. He's also in the team, playing the No.10 role to provide balance and even though he's not exactly very consistent, he's still able to chip in a few goals and assists here and there. If he can do that, why can't Willian?

I think the thing with Willian is for some reason he has always been this good player that is just never good at actually producing productive statistic for some reason(goals, assists) even in his best days at Sharkta(spelling) he scored something like 30 goals in 300 matches or something ridiculous like that, that game in the CL where he scored 2 against us was an exception to the rule.

Personally I blame the board for signing him for 25-30m instead of getting someone else we know that will be a lot more productive. Rumors is that Roman personally did it because he wanted to help his pal the Russian owner of Anzhi at the time. I don't like to get into conspiracy theories but it sort of making sense looking at it.

[DYC. 7,542]

No he doesn't. Very, very few of the ambitious passes Wilian attempts find their intended target. Most often they are misdirected or cut-out. Either way, possession breaks down on him an awful lot.

I agree on that. But when he keeps it safe, playing short passes and carrying the ball in midfield, he'll rarely loose the ball because of sloppy play. High % of completing passes, low amount of turn overs and all. But yes, in the tick of it, he seems to come up short, sadly. He's capable of producing some good stuff in the attacking third, just not nearly enough.

[DH1988 1,199]

We get it. Willian is in the starting XI to provide balance and we aren't exactly disputing that. But let's not pretend as if Mourinho just tells Willian to stay in the defensive half and don't go forward. He's got the license to go forward but when he does, there's nothing productive and decisive coming from him in the final third. What people need to understand here is that, we get his role in the starting XI but we also want more productive return from Willian. Nobody is asking him to be a goal and assist machine, scoring and creating in every game. No. Just contribute more in attack with the goals, assists and other aspects offensively, because let's face it, 2 goals and 2 assists in 24 matches (came in just 2 games) isn't exactly a very impressive return, is it? To make a comparison, look at Oscar. He's also in the team, playing the No.10 role to provide balance and even though he's not exactly very consistent, he's still able to chip in a few goals and assists here and there. If he can do that, then why can't Willian?

Interesting and I agree/disagree with parts of your post, I know thats contradictory but if you/others understand why he's in the team to provide that balance then surely you understand to shy away from stats like goals/assists from someone who is essentially a workhorse for the team down the side where most of our play with the FB for the diagonal outlet comes from, he carries the ball well in the transitioning from midfield to the final third and much improved on at least taking pop shots, is there work to be done? Sure, with most of our team, he gets the rough end of the stick, as does Oscar, not his biggest fan by any stretch but I understand the role he's in and anything goal/freekick/assist wise is a bonus and again, certainly improved on last year tactically/linkup despite statistics.

The moment we stop seeing improvement or not at LEAST performing the role he's assigned to do (By Jose) then its time to post about it but he's doing his job and an improved Willian on last season. Its just a massive over reaction that comes with a loss like that, look at the Cahill thread, witch hunt.

Overpriced at £32m? For sure.

[ParNolio7 285]

Check out my latest blog article: The Three Goal Scorers Principle on what makes the difference between a decent and a briliant side.

http://pieterhontele.wordpress.com/2015/01/02/the-three-goal-scorers-principle/

[Jase 43,479]

Interesting and I agree/disagree with parts of your post, I know thats contradictory but if you/others understand why he's in the team to provide that balance then surely you understand to shy away from stats like goals/assists from someone who is essentially a workhorse for the team down the side where most of our play with the FB for the diagonal outlet comes from, he carries the ball well in the transitioning from midfield to the final third and much improved on at least taking pop shots, is there work to be done? Sure, with most of our team, he gets the rough end of the stick, as does Oscar, not his biggest fan by any stretch but I understand the role he's in and anything goal/freekick/assist wise is a bonus and again, certainly improved on last year tactically/linkup despite statistics.

Yeah but like I said, Willian does get into the penalty box (so do our other AMs) but nothing good seems to come from him in the final third, be it scoring, assisting or providing the killer passes. Oscar's role is similar to his and yet his goal/assist return is much better than Willian and mind you, not all of the former's goals/assists came from set pieces.

The moment we stop seeing improvement or not at LEAST performing the role he's assigned to do (By Jose) then its time to post about it but he's doing his job and an improved Willian on last season. Its just a massive over reaction that comes with a loss like that, look at the Cahill thread, witch hunt.

Overpriced at £32m? For sure.

Massive overreaction and witch hunt? No. If you read through carefully, people have brought up this point long before the defeat yesterday. Same goes for the Cahill debate really.

[DH1988 1,199]

Yeah but like I said, Willian does get into the penalty box (so do our other AMs) but nothing good seems to come from him in the final third, be it scoring, assisting or providing the killer passes. Oscar's role is similar to his and yet his goal/assist return is much better than Willian and mind you, not all of the former's goals/assists came from set pieces.

Massive overreaction and witch hunt? No. If you read through carefully, people have brought up this point long before the defeat yesterday. Same goes for the Cahill debate really.

Our other AMs? What good comes of those? Salah? Schurrle? Who are we talking about here? Fabregas and Hazard? Willian offers more than the first two and who are people calling for in Jan? Reus? Whoever is on the RW needs to conform to a style of play and tactical awareness to allow our RB and our formation to play like we do. Oscar has alot more freedom than Willian does, switch the two for 5 games and we can see where we are. It'll be a sad day when/if Willian is dropped, there's a reason we dominated Southampton after he came on, changes the whole dynamic of the team.

If you read through, carefully, you'll see that I'm not Cahill's biggest fan, stretches back to before Monaco. Your saying that there has not been an over reaction to the defeat? If not then perhaps its yourself who might need to read a bit more carefully.