Oscar

[Mr_President 404]

Try majority of Chelsea fans for starters

I am not attacking your standpoint, mate I am just trying to understand.

What do you mean by 'overrate'. Do you think most Chelsea fans think Oscar is world class? I certainly don't think he's at that level yet and nor do most sane Chelsea fans I've spoken to. What I do not deny is that Oscar has great potential and, more importantly, is already a central figure in our team. His game has been more than just goal/assist stats or, as some suggest, 'running all over the place'.

[bushman 2,043]

How can anyone rate any player by stats only?

Oscar had contributed much more to Chelsea than his goals or assists. If one cannot see, then he should watch darts instead.

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

The biggest change in our playing style this year has been our high pressing. Oscar is the one who triggers this. At the moment, he's asked to trigger the press, help recover possession and play on the peripheries and let Hazard shine. If Jose wanted the goals and assists from his #10 he would have kept Mata and sold Oscar. Oscar is doing what Jose wants him to do, based on that is why I say he was on form during the first half of the season.

That's like saying why doesn't Modric get 10 tackles a match when he plays in the pivot? That's not what his coach wants of him. Jose realizes Oscar's strength and weaknesses and he's built the team around his strengths. I can understand you want your #10 to get goals and assists. Every Chelsea fan does, we all remember Mata go ape shit here for 2 years after all. But it doesn't seem Jose values that as much as he does the other things Oscar brings to the table. However, I do feel he sees the potential that Oscar would eventually be able to be a bit more decisive, but he's young and has shown improvements so I do feel he will get better and turn those weak points into strengths.

We need to be patient, because if he does develop his creative side, he'll turn into one of the most complete footballers in the world. Dude will be worth 50-60M easy. When's the last time you've ever seen a ball winning #10 who can also contribute 10 goals & 10 assists. That's a realistic possibility with Oscar, that shit is scary.

Similar to Lamps, as in he is a unique and will give any team that competitive advantage if he continues to develop.

[DYC. 7,542]

The former even though I find him extremely overrated by many as his actual footballing ability and output aren't consistent with the hype and accolade he receives but he's not a bad player at all. far from it. just not a playmaker and overrated that's all.

In layman terms I rate him as a good player but not a "potential to be one of the best players/no 10 in the world" good

He'll never be a playmaker, I think that's very clear. Not at the level of a player part of the football elite. But he does have his qualities. Last year I said I see a goal-scorer in him, capable of hitting around 15 goals a season (including important goals, goals in big games). EDIT: 20+ goals in goals and assists.

He has this ability to pop up in the right places and he's good shooter. He started off well this year with his goal-scoring but suddenly faded away. He still seems to be dealing with inconsistency issues, not sure why. I don't think it's related to fitness, I'd say it's a confidence issue. But that's the weird thing since the manager has so much faith in him and has praised multiple times throughout the season.

What he's capable of doing is get into these dangerous positions but strangely not consistently.. For the most part he's not in the areas where he can hurt the opposition. So either he's afraid of taking responsisbility or he's constantly thinking of creating space for others or he has concetration issues, meaning a lack of maturity. Good coaching, building experience and a healthy confident boost should fix this. I personally think he'll develop a lot in this area in time.

And then there's his shooting. We've all seen what he's capable of doing. Not a powerful shooter but he can hit them precision and his shooting technique is impressive imo. But again, there seems to be a inconsistency. Some great shots, some disappointly weak efforts. The talent is there but improving his shooting will all depend on him. He'll have to work on it in training and in his own time.

He obviously needs to improve in other areas, like his passing and the 'quickness of his decision-making'. He tends to hold on the ball too long, slowing down attacks and eventually just play a simple short pass. Yes he's young but age goes out of the window when you're a starter at a club like Chelsea. You're expected to perform at a certain level. And when you think about that, I'd say his season has been decent. But he needs to do better imo.

But you make a decent point about his 'ceiling' as a player. I have to say I was impressed with him during the Olympics and I thought he would be special. But he hasn't been developing like I thought he would. It's been very steady rather than a explosive rise in the level of his play. I find it hard to say how much better he can become. It can go either way the way I see it. The amount of hard work the stars of football put in to get where they are is extremely underrated. Cristiano Ronaldo is always the main example of hard work but it's not just him. Messi was a extremely talented youngster but he didn't just become the player he is today. He worked extremely hard to actually develop that talent.

Anyway, I still think Oscar can become a great player for Chelsea. But I will agree with those who say he hasn't been great in his time here.

[lionsden 4,689]

He'll never be a playmaker, I think that's very clear. Not at the level of a player part of the football elite. But he does have his qualities. Last year I said I see a goal-scorer in him, capable of hitting around 15-20 goals a season (including important goals, goals in big games). He has this ability to pop up in the right places and he's good shooter. He started off well this year with his goal-scoring but suddenly faded away. He still seems to be dealing with inconsistency issues, not sure why. I don't think it's related to fitness, I'd say it's a confidence issue. But that's the weird thing since the manager has so much faith in him and has praised multiple times throughout the season.

What he's capable of doing is get into these dangerous positions but strangely not consistently.. For the most part he's not in the areas where he can hurt the opposition. So either he's afraid of taking responsisbility or he's constantly thinking of creating space for others or he has concetration issues, meaning a lack of maturity. Good coaching, building experience and a healthy confident boost should fix this. I personally think he'll develop a lot in this area in time.

And then there's his shooting. We've all seen what he's capable of doing. Not a powerful shooter but he can hit them precision and his shooting technique is impressive imo. But again, there seems to be a inconsistency. Some great shots, some disappointly weak efforts. The talent is there but improving his shooting will all depend on him. He'll have to work on it in training and in his own time.

He obviously needs to improve in other areas, like his passing and the 'quickness of his decision-making'. He tends to hold on the ball too long, slowing down attacks and eventually just play a simple short pass. Yes he's young but age goes out of the window when you're a starter at a club like Chelsea. You're expected to perform at a certain level. And when you think about that, I'd say his season has been decent. But he needs to do better imo.

But you make a decent point about his 'ceiling' as a player. I have to say I was impressed with him during the Olympics and I thought he would be special. But he hasn't been developing like I thought he would. It's been very steady rather than a explosive rise in the level of his play. I find it hard to say how much better he can become. It can go either way the way I see it. The amount of hard work the stars of football put in to get where they are is extremely underrated. Cristiano Ronaldo is always the main example of hard work but it's not just him. Messi was a extremely talented youngster but he didn't just become the player he is today. He worked extremely hard to actually develop that talent.

Anyway, I still think Oscar can become a great player for Chelsea. But I will agree with those who say he hasn't been great in his time here.

I can't disagree with much of this. If (and it's a big IF and a big ask) he eventually replaces Lampard and his goal scoring output then I would be a happy camper indeed and will tolerate his lack of creativity much much better.

[Jase 43,479]

Absolutely, we should have sold Hazard in January because he did fuck all before the turn of the year!

Well, some were entertaining that idea then didn't they when PSG were reportedly coming in with a big bid...?

[DYC. 7,542]

I can't disagree with much of this. If (and it's a big IF and a big ask) he eventually replaces Lampard and his goal scoring output then I would be a happy camper indeed and will tolerate his lack of creativity much much better.

Yeah I already edited it. I meant around 15 goals a season, 20+ goals including assists. Kind of like Müller but not quite as good as he's much more of a natural finisher.

[Barbara 15,149]

[Pizy 18,888]

A part of me still kind of wishes to see how he'd do playing deeper next to Matic. There were concerns before about playing him back there because we'd be exposed defensively if Lamps or Ramires were next to him, but now that we have Matic I'm not sure it would be too big of an issue. Oscar can still get forward and score goals and being in CM can take further advantage of his defensive workrate. He can win the ball in the middle of the pitch and receive it from the defenders to start attacks like we already see him doing, but we could then maybe move Willian to the #10 role for a bit more creativity.

Something like:

------------------------New ST---------------------------

Hazard---------------Willian-----------------Schürlle

----------------Matic--------------Oscar-----------------

Shaw-------------Terry----------Cahill-------------Azpi

------------------------Courtois----------------------------

Think that side has great balance. Rock solid defensively, bags and bags of energy and athleticism, and plenty of goals from all over the pitch. Moving Oscar back into CM may be able to save us a ton of cash that we'd have to use to buy another one.

[Barbara 15,149]

A part of me still kind of wishes to see how he'd do playing deeper next to Matic. There were concerns before about playing him back there because we'd be exposed defensively if Lamps or Ramires were next to him, but now that we have Matic I'm not sure it would be too big of an issue. Oscar can still get forward and score goals and being in CM can take further advantage of his defensive workrate. He can win the ball in the middle of the pitch and receive it from the defenders to start attacks like we already see him doing, but we could then maybe move Willian to the #10 role for a bit more creativity.

Something like:

------------------------New ST---------------------------

Hazard---------------Willian-----------------Schürlle

----------------Matic--------------Oscar-----------------

Shaw-------------Terry----------Cahill-------------Azpi

------------------------Courtois----------------------------

Think that side has great balance. Rock solid defensively, bags and bags of energy and athleticism, and plenty of goals from all over the pitch. Moving Oscar back into CM may be able to save us a ton of cash that we'd have to use to buy another one.

He's barely strong enough to play as an AM in the EPL, if the drops to the pivot I think he'll be eaten alive... kid isn't strong enough imo

[Pizy 18,888]

He's barely strong enough to play as an AM in the EPL, if the drops to the pivot I think he'll be eaten alive... kid isn't strong enough imo

Hmm? I regularly see him getting stuck in and winning balls off of players much bigger than he is. Not asking him to be Matic or Yaya or anything. Ramires is just as frail as Oscar and doesn't struggle there. He's a much better passer than Ramires too.

[Alabama 1,992]

he doesn't possesses fair physical attributes to adapt and be on top of his game in that position....

[Barbara 15,149]

Hmm? I regularly see him getting stuck in and winning balls off of players much bigger than he is. Not asking him to be Matic or Yaya or anything. Ramires is just as frail as Oscar and doesn't struggle there. He's a much better passer than Ramires too.

I'm not talking about being built. Ramires said he played for months for us in a lot of pain, feeling like a truck ran over him after each match - which is partially why he was so bad for us at first. Oscar struggles physically as it is... it's not only about how big he is, but how resilient, how much he can take. That's the problem imo with playing him in the pivot... what we see him doing sometimes as an AM - tackling, dueling, getting rid of pivot opponents doesn't mean he'd be good doing that on a much larger scale as a pivot player. He isn't fit or suited for that imo... but we'd need a few experiences in a row to be really sure.

[Alabama 1,992]

anyway I don't get all the criticism this young talented lad is getting from peeps right here on this thread.....I do understand that as fans we all want the best from our players coupled with the fact that he is playing for one of the best team in the world....but guys Oscar is young and presenting adapting to the physical condition(s) of EPL...in the national team most of the goal(s) are either created or scored by Oscar/Neymar...that's is a very good eye opener...but here in EPL the most difficult league in the world....he is got to adapt but his level or intensity of adaptation may not be rapid...but he is gradually evolving as fantastic world class footballer......all players cannot be Hazard or Messi...we should respect that fact...in one of his interview he said back in Brazil when you have the ball your first mentality is to do tricks which is the tradition of Brazilian football but when he came to EPL he said Jose told to put in efforts then tricks can follow....have said it and ll kip saying once this kid metamorphoses due to his development curve he is passing through he ll become a scary world beater in that No 10 position cos he is capable of hybriding attacking mentality and playmaking abilities together......

[communicate 2,703]

I'm not talking about being built. Ramires said he played for months for us in a lot of pain, feeling like a truck ran over him after each match - which is partially why he was so bad for us at first. Oscar struggles physically as it is... it's not only about how big he is, but how resilient, how much he can take. That's the problem imo with playing him in the pivot... what we see him doing sometimes as an AM - tackling, dueling, getting rid of pivot opponents doesn't mean he'd be good doing that on a much larger scale as a pivot player. He isn't fit or suited for that imo... but we'd need a few experiences in a row to be really sure.

Good point, I don't like the idea of moving him to pivot.

At am he is a good am with excellent closing down skill. At pivot he is a good short technical cm with poor physique, poor engine (compare to ramires) and poor aerially