Juan Mata

[GodZola 630]

It is incredulous that so many opinions are being based on 3 players (Hazard, Oscar, Willian) that all of a sudden have clicked into gear (albeit more like a few half's of football) yet now they are suddenly ready to put a world class player in Mata on the scrapheap?! It wasn't that long ago member's on this forum were questioning Jose's ability in the transfer market because we acquired Willian when we already had Hazard, De Bruyne, Shirley etc to cover those positions, also to add to that Jose amongst some of the players were being slated for some of the poor results and performances previous to the last 4/5 games, just before this decent run we went out to Sunderland and the detractors were out in full! I don't remember reading too many posts asking for the introduction of these 3 players beforehand, think some have short memories.........

There is no doubt and I'm not pig ignorant to see that we have looked a far more composed side recently with some brilliant individual and collective performances, however the reason we have improved is not just because of the high pressing energy from our attack it is also based on solid defensive displays where we look more like the miserly José Chelsea of old and I include Mikel in that and many know I'm no fan of his.

Without question the recent performances bode well for the rest of the season but let's not go overboard with the praise because we can just as well fall on our arse with the same 3 players and that's why those writing off Mata or believe he should be sold to fund x, y or z are iincredibly naive imho, he still has a major role to play for us this season.

One last thing to add to the arguments above is that we have a far superior manager and squad this season to last, I said it before our bench now looks more like quality rather than having to turn to players like Benayoun, Turnbull etc and no offense to those players but it helps when you can turn to a few notches above that level when things aren't going great - how many teams would love to have Juan on their bench!

[Korea 734]

I dont even know what this thread is about anymore...

[Rom2013 446]

Sell him and buy Di Maria that is having problems in Madrid, today Di Maria offended the Real Madrid fans.

Or do an exchange with PSG for Lucas and another player.

This guy doesn't fit in the team. We need 4 great players in the AM with the right characteristics. Players that can press and create at the same time.

[Korea 734]

Sell him and buy Di Maria that is having problems in Madrid, today Di Maria offended the Real Madrid fans.

Or do an exchange with PSG for Lucas and another player.

This guy doesn't fit in the team. We need 4 great players in the AM with the right characteristics. Players that can press and create at the same time.

we have 4.

Wiliian-hazard-oscar-schurrle.

Lucas is still a raw player.....

[Rom2013 446]

we have 4.

Wiliian-hazard-oscar-schurrle.

Lucas is still a raw player.....

But just 3 of them are great.

Lucas will be a great player and is having problems in PSG. It's a great oportunity to get him and he is really similar to our other 3 players.

Mata doesn't fit.

[Korea 734]

But just 3 of them are great.

Lucas will be a great player and is having problems in PSG. It's a great oportunity to get him and he is really similar to our other 3 players.

Mata doesn't fit.

Lucas market value is incredibly high...

I doubt PSG would sell him considering his age and potential..

[The only place to be 11,313]

It is incredulous that so many opinions are being based on 3 players (Hazard, Oscar, Willian) that all of a sudden have clicked into gear (albeit more like a few half's of football) yet now they are suddenly ready to put a world class player in Mata on the scrapheap?! It wasn't that long ago member's on this forum were questioning Jose's ability in the transfer market because we acquired Willian when we already had Hazard, De Bruyne, Shirley etc to cover those positions, also to add to that Jose amongst some of the players were being slated for some of the poor results and performances previous to the last 4/5 games, just before this decent run we went out to Sunderland and the detractors were out in full! I don't remember reading too many posts asking for the introduction of these 3 players beforehand, think some have short memories.........

There is no doubt and I'm not pig ignorant to see that we have looked a far more composed side recently with some brilliant individual and collective performances, however the reason we have improved is not just because of the high pressing energy from our attack it is also based on solid defensive displays where we look more like the miserly José Chelsea of old and I include Mikel in that and many know I'm no fan of his.

Without question the recent performances bode well for the rest of the season but let's not go overboard with the praise because we can just as well fall on our arse with the same 3 players and that's why those writing off Mata or believe he should be sold to fund x, y or z are iincredibly naive imho, he still has a major role to play for us this season.

One last thing to add to the arguments above is that we have a far superior manager and squad this season to last, I said it before our bench now looks more like quality rather than having to turn to players like Benayoun, Turnbull etc and no offense to those players but it helps when you can turn to a few notches above that level when things aren't going great - how many teams would love to have Juan on their bench!

All very nice, but the question remains where does Mata actually play right now?

To my mind, he's probably THIRD choice in the number 10 spot behind Oscar and Willian. He's probably second choice on the right wing behind Willian. So what role does he play? Impact sub? He's not that type of player. He's the type you have to build an entire team around and let him dictate the tempo.

It's easy to say he makes us weaker in defence, but that's too simplistic. We press high up the pitch and that isn't just about defence, it's about creating chances for us to score as well. It's a dimension of the offence that is often ignored but it helps us control the tempo of games even without the ball.

So you're left with a player who is worth about £40 million to the right team who doesn't fit our system in his best role, doesn't really fit it on the wing and isn't the type of 'plan B' option you'd want off the bench. That's a £40 million asset on a team that needs to acquire players in other positions both in the short and medium-term. Sentiment aside (because the arguments for keeping Mata aren't based on where he fits in a tactical sense) there's a strong case for cashing in.

[Pizy 18,891]

All very nice, but the question remains where does Mata actually play right now?

To my mind, he's probably THIRD choice in the number 10 spot behind Oscar and Willian. He's probably second choice on the right wing behind Willian. So what role does he play? Impact sub? He's not that type of player. He's the type you have to build an entire team around and let him dictate the tempo.

It's easy to say he makes us weaker in defence, but that's too simplistic. We press high up the pitch and that isn't just about defence, it's about creating chances for us to score as well. It's a dimension of the offence that is often ignored but it helps us control the tempo of games even without the ball.

So you're left with a player who is worth about £40 million to the right team who doesn't fit our system in his best role, doesn't really fit it on the wing and isn't the type of 'plan B' option you'd want off the bench. That's a £40 million asset on a team that needs to acquire players in other positions both in the short and medium-term. Sentiment aside (because the arguments for keeping Mata aren't based on where he fits in a tactical sense) there's a strong case for cashing in.

Brillaint post.

Exactly why a Mata/Rooney swap makes so much sense. United are in dire need of some creativity and invention in their midfield. Their only mode of attack right now consists of everyone knocking the ball out to Valencia who then attempts (very poorly most of the time) to get crosses in. We are overloaded with creative players and are in dire need of a hard working, industrious, top class forward like Rooney.

[Korea 734]

Brillaint post.

Exactly why a Mata/Rooney swap makes so much sense. United are in dire need of some creativity and invention in their midfield. Their only mode of attack right now consists of everyone knocking the ball out to Valencia who then attempts (very poorly most of the time) to get crosses in. We are overloaded with creative players and are in dire need of a hard working, industrious, top class forward like Rooney.

United doesnt need Mata, they need a CM or a winger....

They needed Cesc/Thiago or Cristiano/Bale.

[Pizy 18,891]

United doesnt need Mata, they need a CM or a winger....

They needed Cesc/Thiago or Cristiano/Bale.

United need about 5 players. RedCafe calls their style of football "Dinosaur" football right now because of their dour tactics and lack of creativity. Mata could slot if anywhere along their attack. They can play a more modern style of football with Mata in behind RvP.

[The only place to be 11,313]

United doesnt need Mata, they need a CM or a winger....

They needed Cesc/Thiago or Cristiano/Bale.

United's problem (going off-topic) is that I'm not sure they know what they need. I think they're looking to replace Keane and Scholes but the game has moved on. I don't know what their style of play is and I don't know what Moyes style of play is to be honest, which is why they look like a mess. They seem to want to continue to play the 'United way' but that was looking a bit weary over the last couple of seasons.

[laura90 556]

We built a team around Mata? That's strange to know, considering we didn't even gave him a proper striker, someone who would convert his numerius passes that never managed to become assists.

To get the best out of Mata, team needs defensive, ball disturbing CM and solid DM in pivot and a decent striker. In that case Mata wouldn't have to defend, his offensive assets would become his best defence.

But I get it. We are playing different style and Jose loves direct players rather than the flair ones. He doesn't fit in his system.

I am among those who want him in other club where he would fit more, be much more needed and appreciated, able to do what he does the best, play attacking midfielder and producing goals and assists.

Watching Mata playing as a winger and judging attacking midfielder is rather unfair.

With all the defensive work, tackles, tracking back Oscar will be lucky to get half of Mata's 55 assists 32 goals in two seasons. When he does, this debate about who is better AM will be debatable for me.

Lets not forget that Drogba didn't play that great in PL and we had not proper striker in PL both seasons.

For now Oscar is more complete and fits more in current system. But better in terms of productivity? Not just there yet.

[Korea 734]

United need about 5 players. RedCafe calls their style of football "Dinosaur" football right now because of their dour tactics and lack of creativity. Mata could slot if anywhere along their attack. They can play a more modern style of football with Mata in behind RvP.

Personally, I think they need to find a replacement for Carrick and someone to play alongside him. I dont know how Phil Jones as CM will work out, but he did do well vs arsenal.

[Korea 734]

We built a team around Mata? That's strange to know, considering we didn't even gave him a proper striker, someone who would convert his numerius passes that never managed to become assists.

To get the best out of Mata, team needs defensive, ball disturbing CM and solid DM in pivot and a decent striker. In that case Mata wouldn't have to defend, his offensive assets would become his best defence.

But I get it. We are playing different style and Jose loves direct players rather than the flair ones. He doesn't fit in his system.

I am among those who want him in other club where he would fit more, be much more needed and appreciated, able to do what he does the best, play attacking midfielder and producing goals and assists.

Watching Mata playing as a winger and judging attacking midfielder is rather unfair.

With all the defensive work, tackles, tracking back Oscar will be lucky to get half of Mata's 55 assists 32 goals in two seasons. When he does, this debate about who is better AM will be debatable for me.

Lets not forget that Drogba didn't play that great in PL and we had not proper striker in PL both seasons.

For now Oscar is more complete and fits more in current system. But better in terms of productivity? Not just there yet.

Goal wise, i think he can...

Assist wise will be difficult. He nor Hazard excel at set pieces...

also, your beginning statement described what any Cam would need to succeed. I dont think we built a team for Mata, however, we put him in prime position to get his stats, etc.... I guess its two different things, but I think people were saying that he was put in position to excel stat wise... (or i might have misinterpreted).

[kellzfresh 7,229]

We have also had huge slice of luck this season in comparison to last season and our current league standing is quite flattering.

games against villa, westbrom, Liverpool (The two Eto'o incidents) and Man city where we were thoroughly outplayed and had Joe hart to thank for the last minute brainfart.

We hav also been unlucky. Lost to everton when we should have raped them, lost to sunderland in the league cup when eto missed 2 one on ones, lost to stoke city when we should have been 3-0 up at half time, we should have won arsenal with more clear chances, and we unluckily got a red card against bayern when we should have won if oscar scored an open goal in normal time.

Mancity didn't dominate us, we should have beaten mancity. We got more clear chances and should have been 3-0 up at half time, aguero scored a lucky goal that cech should have saved.

We had some luck and also have been so unlucky. It happens every season just like how we didn't deserve to beat benfica in the europa league finals.