Juan Mata

[darrus 422]

Mourinho wouldn't be the manager he is if he answered to those kind of things in a 'vindictive' way, given some of the players he's managed in the past. When was the last time you saw him detracting about one of his players to the media? How many things have Lukaku said and how many times have Mourinho been questioned about that move, until he finally said Romelu should say why he really left Chelsea? People expecting Mata to be punished by that, are deluding themselves imo. Now go ask him if he'd allow his son - who's training to be a footballer - to behave like Mata did. Go ask him if he approves it.

He knows it was a heated reaction, filled with anger and frustration. he wouldn't let this affect how he manages the team, especially if Mata is good for the team.

He NEVER took Sergio Ramos from Real Madrid except for technical reasons even though Sergio Ramos kept doing what he did which was a personal attack more blunt and more articulated with the media. He's managed Ballotelli (sp?), Sneijder (for different reasons, I'm sure you know better than me) and all kind of challenging players. Mata isn't a challenging player. He had an outburst. Mourinho overlooked it. Did you expect him to do what? To bench Mata forever as a punishment? If Mourinho allowed those kind of things to interfere in his management, he would have 'ended' (in the club) a lot of his players careers and he didn't.

That was the thing Spanish media never understood about the Casillas gate. It wasn't personal, it has never been personal. Casillas was dropped in a more permanent way when he didn't do half the things Ramos did and said, and Ramos was kept in the team after being dropped shortly because of bad performances. The same happened with Pepe.

Agreed with almost everything though it should be mentioned that Mourinho did in the past bench players for disciplinary reasons. The same Ramos watched 2 matches from the tribunes after telling Mourinho's assistant along the lines of "f**k off, you are nobody here", and Baia had a month long ban with a fill-blown disciplinary trial - but the point still is, the offences were grave and an example had to be made for every other player.

As for Mata's case, I'm not sure Mourinho even knew what he was commenting about. I don't know how much time passes between the match and press-conference? He had to talk to reporters straight after the match, he went down to the dressing room, talked to Oscar, talked to players, went to the press - he probably didn't even see Mata's reaction, then got asked about it, probably thought "wtf?!" and gave a rather noncommital answer.

And sure while Mata's reaction was unnesessary to put it mildly, it was probably heat of the moment and was settled quickly. And I am certain that was it. No need to create internal conflicts out of (hopefully) once in a lifetime outburst.

I very much doubt Mata will be sold, especially as KdB seems to be on his way out.

[Barbara 15,149]

Interesting article, coming from Daily Mail of all places...

It's a fair analysis imo and it show why Mourinho isn't marginalizing Mata

THE NUMBERS GAME: Why Mourinho is RIGHT not to play Mata... but Hazard, Oscar and Willian could fire Chelsea to the title

edit:

That’s not to say he can’t be a regular, and it’s a bit of a myth that he’s been completely sidelined this season. He's in the top three for minutes played out of the Blues' attackers.

Mata was the best player for a team that finished sixth and a distant third in the Premier League – that’s not where Mourinho wants to be.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2533684/THE-NUMBERS-GAME-Why-Mourinho-RIGHT-not-play-Mata.html#ixzz2pSWIHr1C

does this guy read TalkChelsea? I can't count how many times a few of us said those two things!!!!!

[Cripen 110]

Funny thing I keep reading is people saying he is too good for the bench, yet their are a ton of examples of better players coming off the bench in Europe....

Gotze, Martinez, Robben, Thiago

Rooney came off the bench last season

Dzeko.

Isco, bale

Sanchez/pedro, cesc.

I can understand the whole idea of raising funds for another player to be bought, but to be too good for the bench, I dont..

Its hard to judge Mata by his perfomences in this season, but just look at his last two season and how can you say that Thiago, Dzeko (although its hard to compare this two) or Sanchez are better tha Juan?

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

"IF i leave Chelsea, I would be unprofessional, just because I am not playing does not mean that i dont love Chelsea. I am not leaving." JUAN MATA.

Source? Can't be posting things like this without a source.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

Source? Can't be posting things like this without a source.

It's fake, only source is facebook and twitter.

[Barbara 15,149]

@remains of the day, it makes sense everything you said, and I agree. Mourinho isn't always diplomatic, but his own tongue seems much more tamed now than it was in the past. In those three examples I gave I think he took the diplomatic answer, although you're right and he's showed his discontentment with Romelu. I can't say about Cole as I didn't follow because I didn't care.

I still would like to know what could he have said if he disapproved Mata's reaction? I can't see him saying anything about how out of order he was... he knows why he's reacted like that and he's seen that a thousand times and he knows he'll see another thousand.

I just came across this (from Mirror)

Mourinho said: "I try to do my job forgetting I have a soft heart, pretending that I have a hard heart. Many times it hurts me, not just with Juan, over the decisions I have to make. But I think to do my job in the best way is to do it thinking the team is more important than any player.

"When I have to make decision I always try to be a cold one, icy, analyse situation and try to make the best decision for the team, maybe not forgetting the player but putting the person secondary.

"But yes, it hurts me. He's a good kid, he works hard and I know it's not easy situation for him not to be playing every time.

Which is sort of what I said I think Mourinho would have said to Mata... I think you guys have a point that maybe Mou didn't think Mata was questioning his authority - or maybe he's just ignoring it, knowing how difficult it is for the player. I don't think he'd criticize Mata on his poor behavior publicly and I don't think he approves of reacting like that, but I do think he would never make it a big thing. He knows he will frustrate a few players here. He's frustrated Ash, Luiz, Schurrle, Mata, Kevin, all strikers because none of those guys have regular starting, all of them rotate. So while I think Mata was disrespectful in his reaction, I don't think a manager of Mourinho's caliber would make anything out of it. He reacted, but that was about it. He didn't call Mourinho's mother any names or called a press conference to say shit about him. It's a minor incident from Mourinho's pov, one he's used to.

My reaction is exclusively about how I despise that kind of reaction, but even then I've never said Mata should be punished. He shouldn't. It's a minor episode in the big scheme of things... just a lamentable episode still imo.

(ps: I've changed the convo to Mata's thread because I don't think it has much to do with Oscar. I never related both incidents or the reactions from us about them, so I'm moving it where it belongs imo. I think most people's reaction towards Oscar's episode and Mata's episode aren't correlated or interdependent)

[YouNameIt 1,511]

I dont think theres a single Chelsea fan that dont like Mata. I love the guy. I really do.

The problem is first and foremost that the type of football we've been playing now doesnt seem to suit Mata very well. Secondly, Oscar has been godlike so he's always (by always I mean for the most part unless something unpredictable happens) gonna be the first choice. And Mata is no benchplayer. Hes better than that and he certainly deserves better.

However, I am certain that if we had a better DM, then Mata would be alot more effective in his no10 position.

But I have a feeling Mata will leave us if not now, then during the summer...

[Namika 922]

Duncan Castles, it's bullshit.

[remains of the day 564]

@remains of the day, it makes sense everything you said, and I agree. Mourinho isn't always diplomatic, but his own tongue seems much more tamed now than it was in the past. In those three examples I gave I think he took the diplomatic answer, although you're right and he's showed his discontentment with Romelu. I can't say about Cole as I didn't follow because I didn't care.

I still would like to know what could he have said if he disapproved Mata's reaction? I can't see him saying anything about how out of order he was... he knows why he's reacted like that and he's seen that a thousand times and he knows he'll see another thousand.

I just came across this (from Mirror)

Which is sort of what I said I think Mourinho would have said to Mata... I think you guys have a point that maybe Mou didn't think Mata was questioning his authority - or maybe he's just ignoring it, knowing how difficult it is for the player. I don't think he'd criticize Mata on his poor behavior publicly and I don't think he approves of reacting like that, but I do think he would never make it a big thing. He knows he will frustrate a few players here. He's frustrated Ash, Luiz, Schurrle, Mata, Kevin, all strikers because none of those guys have regular starting, all of them rotate. So while I think Mata was disrespectful in his reaction, I don't think a manager of Mourinho's caliber would make anything out of it. He reacted, but that was about it. He didn't call Mourinho's mother any names or called a press conference to say shit about him. It's a minor incident from Mourinho's pov, one he's used to.

My reaction is exclusively about how I despise that kind of reaction, but even then I've never said Mata should be punished. He shouldn't. It's a minor episode in the big scheme of things... just a lamentable episode still imo.

(ps: I've changed the convo to Mata's thread because I don't think it has much to do with Oscar. I never related both incidents or the reactions from us about them, so I'm moving it where it belongs imo. I think most people's reaction towards Oscar's episode and Mata's episode aren't correlated or interdependent)

Well, I guess how he responded to Ash/Lukaku was diplomatic, by his standards. To answer your question, it's hard to say how Mourinho could have responded to Mata. Sometimes he’s direct, other times he’ll say something like “[pause] if you’re asking me........ if I like that kind of behaviour in a player, then I would say no.....”. You know? At times he shows his disapproval of a player's actions without actually coming out to criticize them directly.

And definitely, Mourinho is a lot more withheld than he was before. I remember the Birmingham match at the bridge - this was in his first season here - and Mourinho was pissed off with Joe Cole for basically showboating too much. In his post-match interview he said that Cole needs to play for the team and not himself and if he does that next time he’ll be on the bench. Mourinho now won't be that obvious in his criticism of a player's behaviour, but nonetheless he'll still find a more subtle way of letting it known that he's not happy. So maybe you're right, maybe he's become more diplomatic in his responses but he's still very raw.

On Mata - I'm not saying we shouldn't disapprove of his reaction to being subbed but my issue is (and it's already been said many times) from some of the reactions here, you wouldn't know that Mata's behaviour was a minor incident. I think people are taking for granted how professional he's been to the point that it now seems like people are being a bit too entitled. Two matches into the season, Ozil walked down the tunnel not even bothering to shake Carlo's hand when he was subbed early. Two matches! Regardless of whether he's been average, Mata is used to receiving plaudits, he's used to being the fan favourite and he's used to being the main man, now suddenly he's not, but yet (except for this one occasion) he's still been so professional and positive. What more do people want?

[Reddish-Blue 2,503]

On Mata - my issue is (and it's already been said many times) from the reactions here, you wouldn't know that Mata's behaviour was a minor incident. I think people are taking for granted how professional Mata has been to the point that it now seems like entitlement. Two matches into the season, Ozil walked down the tunnel not even bothering to shake Carlo's hand when he was subbed early. Two matches! Regardless of whether he's been average, Mata is used to receiving plaudits, he's used to being the fan favourite and he's used to being the main man, now suddenly he's not, but yet (except for this one ocassion) he's still been so professional and positive. What more do people want?

Mata can be as professional as he wants to be and stay on at Chelsea...but for the sake of his own future, he should move to a club that knows how to fully utilise his skillset.

I know he loves Chelsea and the fans...but at some point, you have to consider your future at club and country level

[Azpinator 2,325]

Oh saint-Mata, can do no wrong..

All Mourinho's fault.

It's funny because some atm are acting as if Oscar or Hazard "can do no wrong". That's what's wrong with the world.

[bababoom 4,478]

I hear some people mainly opposition fans saying he should go to a team like Dortmund... surely he'll find it harder with their pressing and intensity. If he was to be sold he needs to play for a possession based team IMO, that's how you get the best out of him.

[dee25 1,044]

Completely disagree. Oscar is our most important player and the choice between him and Mata has massive ramifications on the way we play football compared to those other positions.

If they're basing it on 'creating chances' then that might make sense. But shouldn't they be basing it on how the team plays as a whole?

Absolutely agree, but you'll see people using Mata's two POTY awards as some sort of justification for Mourinho needing to build the team around him. Fanboy is a bad term to use in my opinion, but I'm not sure what other word you might use.

We'll have to agree to disagree, I see little difference between a fan who is pushing for Luiz to play in defence over Cahill & a fan who is championing for Mata in the no. 10 pos. over Oscar.

I do agree that how the team plays as a whole is important, but no matter how great the team looks with Oscar, if few chances are being created then we'll find it difficult to win matches which was exactly our situation up until these recent games.

As for your last point, I'm not exactly briefed on this Mata/Oscar movement going on here so I might be wrong, but aren't the people who are calling for the team to be built around Mata a small (but vocal) minority?

Also you're saying POTY award as if the awards scored the 20 goals for Mata and made the 35 assists. If people are focusing on those awards, then it's because his achievements (that put him in the running for them) were just that remarkable. To be shortlisted for the premier league POTY is no small feat at all.

You might see those accomplishments as old news & only relevant to last season, but for others, it still carries weight and shows what Mata is capable of.

I guess I don't get what the big fuss is about, people can be faithful supporters of the club and still hold the belief that Mata would be better for us in the no. 10 than Oscar. Oscar was fantastic earlier on in the season but then trailed off somewhere between Oct/Nov and he's only now getting back into good form. So it's not like he's been consistently putting in top notch performances since August.

Now if Oscar continues on this trajectory of good form & come the end of the season people still aren't convinced by him in no.10 then that's when it becomes a problem.

[Svita 10 186]

During his stretching we could heard chant: We want you to stay, we want you to stay, Juan Mata, we want you to stay
Juan showed thumbs up to the fans. Top Man!

[The only place to be 11,313]

We'll have to agree to disagree, I see little difference between a fan who is pushing for Luiz to play in defence over Cahill & a fan who is championing for Mata in the no. 10 pos. over Oscar.

Luiz/Cahill don't radically change the way we play in the same way Mata/Oscar does in my opinion.

I do agree that how the team plays as a whole is important, but no matter how great the team looks with Oscar, if few chances are being created then we'll find it difficult to win matches which was exactly our situation up until these recent games.

Chances created is important, but it's just one aspect of how the team performs and whilst Mata might create more chances I think there are obvious downsides that need to be weighed against it.

[Mouri_Matic 560]

Might have played his last proper game for Chelsea, from now on his appearance will probably be from the bench when it is practically useless or like Kevin, eventually just got removed completely from the team. Really think his days here are numbered, unless Jose get sacked which will not happen. Don't really see him doing a Casillas/Adebayor and just sit there to get money, he is the type of guy who wants to do well wherever he is so I think he will want to leave in the summer if his situation doesn't change from now till then.

[BleedsBlue 1,549]

Might have played his last proper game for Chelsea, from now on his appearance will probably be from the bench when it is practically useless or like Kevin, eventually just got removed completely from the team. Really think his days here are numbered, unless Jose get sacked which will not happen. Don't really see him doing a Casillas/Adebayor and just sit there to get money, he is the type of guy who wants to do well wherever he is so I think he will want to leave in the summer if his situation doesn't change from now till then.

His situation is like the one Ozil could have faced had he stayed at Madrid and competed with Isco. Instead of trying to prove himself he decided to move to a club which would value him as a starter.Also the relationship between him and the club became quite sour because of the Jose sacking.

Anyways,Mata respects the club and us fans. The reaction after being subbed last game was in my opinion a very healthy and honest one. It showed his desire to play and the frustration was quite understandable because he had a decent first half but yet got subbed off 5 minutes after the interval.

The problem is just that Willian and Oscar are better him at the moment and there is nothing he can do but wait. Players like Cole(who's been a great servant to the club), Andre,Kevin etc all have been treated the same so there is no personal rift between Jose and Mata.

If Mata leaves then he'll definitely be a starter at his new club and will probably be bought for a huge amount because he is a real class player. I wouldn't mind if he did get sold because I would totally understand the whole reason behind the move. Mata is in his prime years and deserves to play every week for a top club.

Its just a shame that he's competing with Oscar(one of the best CAM in world football today) for that sole spot.

[Mouri_Matic 560]

His situation is like the one Ozil could have faced had he stayed at Madrid and competed with Isco. Instead of trying to prove himself he decided to move to a club which would value him as a starter.Also the relationship between him and the club became quite sour because of the Jose sacking.

Anyways,Mata respects the club and us fans. The reaction after being subbed last game was in my opinion a very healthy and honest one. It showed his desire to play and the frustration was quite understandable because he had a decent first half but yet got subbed off 5 minutes after the interval.

The problem is just that Willian and Oscar are better him at the moment and there is nothing he can do but wait. Players like Cole(who's been a great servant to the club), Andre,Kevin etc all have been treated the same so there is no personal rift between Jose and Mata.

If Mata leaves then he'll definitely be a starter at his new club and will probably be bought for a huge amount because he is a real class player. I wouldn't mind if he did get sold because I would totally understand the whole reason behind the move. Mata is in his prime years and deserves to play every week for a top club.

Its just a shame that he's competing with Oscar(one of the best CAM in world football today) for that sole spot.

For the 1st part, actually nothing wrong with that in my opinion. Maybe some players are clever and they know about their ability and where do they stand in the team, sometime moving is better for your career. For example Glen Johnson, not used enough here, decided to move to Portmouth and now eventually playing for 1 of the biggest club in England, regarding as top 5 BPL RB, at the time if he has stayed Ferreira, then Ivan would have been ahead of him so he wouldn't have ever make it here. Kevin another example right now. knowing that he is not ever gonna be better than our current starting 3, he decided he wants to move and maybe in 3 years he will be playing for PSG or something instead of warming our bench. So I can't really blame the players for leaving like you said, sometime it is important you know where you stand as well, for example if Nani was playing for Madrid atm and he knows Bale/Ronaldo are ahead of him, no point trying to prove yourselves because you know you will just never be able to win that spot. So maybe Mata believes he won't ever be better than Oscar for that CAM role or Willian for that RW role or Hazard for LW and who could blame him? I personally think he is at his peak atm and Oscar is no where near his world class self yet while Hazard will forever be a better player than Mata. So leaving is the best option for him and for us to get some money to sign a CDM/ST we really need.

For the 2nd part I agree but which top class teams left that he will fit into well without a fight? Bayern, Madrid, Barca he got no chance, the next best teams are the likes of us, City and PSG. Maybe PSG because they don't have a top class play maker. Or maybe he wants to be the only 1 starting in his position, in this case moving to teams like Atletico, Napoli...etc who are good but just below the best in the world levels.

[BleedsBlue 1,549]

For the 1st part, actually nothing wrong with that in my opinion. Maybe some players are clever and they know about their ability and where do they stand in the team, sometime moving is better for your career. For example Glen Johnson, not used enough here, decided to move to Portmouth and now eventually playing for 1 of the biggest club in England, regarding as top 5 BPL RB, at the time if he has stayed Ferreira, then Ivan would have been ahead of him so he wouldn't have ever make it here. Kevin another example right now. knowing that he is not ever gonna be better than our current starting 3, he decided he wants to move and maybe in 3 years he will be playing for PSG or something instead of warming our bench. So I can't really blame the players for leaving like you said, sometime it is important you know where you stand as well, for example if Nani was playing for Madrid atm and he knows Bale/Ronaldo are ahead of him, no point trying to prove yourselves because you know you will just never be able to win that spot. So maybe Mata believes he won't ever be better than Oscar for that CAM role or Willian for that RW role or Hazard for LW and who could blame him? I personally think he is at his peak atm and Oscar is no where near his world class self yet while Hazard will forever be a better player than Mata. So leaving is the best option for him and for us to get some money to sign a CDM/ST we really need.

For the 2nd part I agree but which top class teams left that he will fit into well without a fight? Bayern, Madrid, Barca he got no chance, the next best teams are the likes of us, City and PSG. Maybe PSG because they don't have a top class play maker. Or maybe he wants to be the only 1 starting in his position, in this case moving to teams like Atletico, Napoli...etc who are good but just below the best in the world levels.

The only reason why Oscar gets picked over Mata is because of his exceptional defensive skills. Now Oscar is one skinny guy yet he makes the successful efforts in tackling and getting the ball from the oppositions.This is something really brilliant and should not be looked as a small ability.

Oscar has full rights to play as a CAM this season because of his current form this season also last season he was most on the right side so he's gone through the phase of adapting. Mata is exceptional going forward but lacks the energy to defend and attack the same time.That affects Jose's unique style of attacking so he has no choice but to drop him.

Maybe you are right. Mata should be sold in the summer and probably PSG maybe the best place. We'll get the amount he truly is worth of and Mata will continue to play with world class players and the Champions League. It is sad that Mata is being underused here but its also remarkable to know that we have an amazing player like Oscar.

[Mouri_Matic 560]

The only reason why Oscar gets picked over Mata is because of his exceptional defensive skills. Now Oscar is one skinny guy yet he makes the successful efforts in tackling and getting the ball from the oppositions.This is something really brilliant and should not be looked as a small ability.

Oscar has full rights to play as a CAM this season because of his current form this season also last season he was most on the right side so he's gone through the phase of adapting. Mata is exceptional going forward but lacks the energy to defend and attack the same time.That affects Jose's unique style of attacking so he has no choice but to drop him.

Maybe you are right. Mata should be sold in the summer and probably PSG maybe the best place. We'll get the amount he truly is worth of and Mata will continue to play with world class players and the Champions League. It is sad that Mata is being underused here but its also remarkable to know that we have an amazing player like Oscar.

Agreed about Oscar and for the last part I don't really think we should be sad, most of us while supporting the team forgot that the end of the day football is just a job for the footballers, who are entertainers, if we really get into it we start to get nostalgia about it and all that. For example if Robben was still playing for Madrid now, he would also be underused and no one would really realize how good he is, but the 2 guys in front of him(CR7/Bale in the future) are already better and will be better than him, so if I was a Madrid fan and Robben was just was our best player last season getting sold because of Ronaldo, I wouldn't really mind. Imo Mata was a good signing, gave us a good couple of seasons, now can go and we can make a tiny profit or at least get our money back. Not everyone in football can be a Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes, sometime you are just Andy Cole, Dwright Yorke who are best in the world partnership 1 season then getting terrible the next, it happens.