Juan Mata

[lionsden 4,689]

Exactly, it's like saying Torres is superior to Suarez.

I still can't believe torres is one of the most decorated players still active. he's one lucky boy that's for sure

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Never thought the day would come when this thread would also end up as a hilarious one...

[darrus 422]

Which in conclusion makes oscar a superior playmaker and footballer to mata right?. by your logic carrick is a better player than Gerrard in his prime because the former won more games and trophies with his team and was a regular fixture of the title winning man utd teams. brilliant argument that.

You're missing the point again.

Why even the question arises of who is superior to whom, for God's sake? What does it matter? The only thing that matters is team results and position in the table. The systems should be compared, not the players.

Let's try it this way. The system that is built around Mata or any other player is wrong by default because if said player tomorrow gets an injury or just slump in form you have no team and no strategy. The system that works regardless of players is better because it has ways to adapt. In this case yes, Oscar who can play center, right or left and still impact the team's performance is better than Mata who can play only one position and only when he has space. But more important is that you can replace Oscar with Hazard or even Willian and still have the team work and get results.

Having good players doesn't by default win matches - Real Madrid in 2000's is a prime example. Having one outstanding player who doesn't fit in the system is not going to get you results - Ibrahimovich's career in Barcelona is an example.

A system built around strengths of most of your players and can be easily modified is much more productive. Having talented players like we have in this system just makes it better.

Noone argues that Suarez is better player than Torres, but it only proves the initial point - relying on one good player to win is not working.

[lionsden 4,689]

You're missing the point again.

Why even the question arises of who is superior to whom, for God's sake? What does it matter? The only thing that matters is team results and position in the table. The systems should be compared, not the players.

Let's try it this way. The system that is built around Mata or any other player is wrong by default because if said player tomorrow gets an injury or just slump in form you have no team and no strategy. The system that works regardless of players is better because it has ways to adapt. In this case yes, Oscar who can play center, right or left and still impact the team's performance is better than Mata who can play only one position and only when he has space. But more important is that you can replace Oscar with Hazard or even Willian and still have the team work and get results.

Having good players doesn't by default win matches - Real Madrid in 2000's is a prime example. Having one outstanding player who doesn't fit in the system is not going to get you results - Ibrahimovich's career in Barcelona is an example.

A system built around strengths of most of your players and can be easily modified is much more productive. Having talented players like we have in this system just makes it better.

Noone argues that Suarez is better player than Torres, but it only proves the initial point - relying on one good player to win is not working.

So basically the individual quality and talent doesn't matter much, as long as the system is right and every player pulling in the same direction and committed to the system. well I will like to see Fergie, Jose, pep or any other "world class" manager out there win major titles with Crystal palace and a bunch of lee cattermoles

[darrus 422]

So basically the individual quality and talent doesn't matter much, as long as the system is right and every player pulling in the same direction and committed to the system. well I will like to see Fergie, Jose, pep or any other "world class" manager out there win major titles with Crystal palace and a bunch of lee cattermoles

And third time in a row you're missing the point. Who talks of Crystal Palace? We are not them. But you don't even have to go far for examples. When Inter played Barcelona Pep had much better players overall, Jose had better system and came out on top. Fergie didn't start with the world beaters. Pep himself worked with a system, not with talented players, and as far as I know without Messi Barcelona is still beating opponents by 4-0 scoreline because they are not dependant on one player. Jose with Leiria beat Sporting and Porto, Jose's Porto beat United, Freiburg taking points off Bayern, Atletico beating Real etc etc.

Once more - one (1) player no matter how good he is will not win you anything. A bunch of great players who have no clue will not win you anything. Good players who know what they are doing on the pitch are winning cups. It's that simple.

Say we had Mata as the one player we are relying to pull us through this season - he's had 1 goal and 2 assists in 15 matches, where would we be now?

[Stingray 9,441]

Chelsea's Juan Mata ready to fight for his place and will not hand in transfer request

Ahhh Sparta Time !! Go Juan!

[kellzfresh 7,229]

So basically the individual quality and talent doesn't matter much, as long as the system is right and every player pulling in the same direction and committed to the system. well I will like to see Fergie, Jose, pep or any other "world class" manager out there win major titles with Crystal palace and a bunch of lee cattermoles

You are intentionally avoiding the point darrius is making.

Benitez set up our team with mata having the freedom of his life, while the rest of the team sat back and defended. So when we get the ball we pass to mata and he tries to break down the opposition. Any day mata is not on good form, or injured we lose the match.

That is why mata had that kind of stat. But that strategy can only be used to challenge for the title if a better player like messi/ronaldo is the one having that kind of free role.

We wanted to challenge for the title and not just make mata have the highest assists so mourinho did what he had to do.

Nobody is saying oscar is a god compared to mata but we are saying the team have a better setup now to fight for the title than when mata was playing like a second striker last season.

[darrus 422]

You are intentionally avoiding the point darrius is making.

Benitez set up our team with mata having the freedom of his life, while the rest of the team sat back and defended. So when we get the ball we pass to mata and he tries to break down the opposition. Any day mata is not on good form, or injured we lose the match.

That is why mata had that kind of stat. But that strategy can only be used to challenge for the title if a better player like messi/ronaldo is the one having that kind of free role.

We wanted to challenge for the title and not just make mata have the highest assists so mourinho did what he had to do.

Nobody is saying oscar is a god compared to mata but we are saying the team have a better setup now to fight for the title than when mata was playing like a second striker last season.

Thanks, I was trying to say this but you said it much better.

[The only place to be 11,313]

You are intentionally avoiding the point darrius is making.

Benitez set up our team with mata having the freedom of his life, while the rest of the team sat back and defended. So when we get the ball we pass to mata and he tries to break down the opposition. Any day mata is not on good form, or injured we lose the match.

That is why mata had that kind of stat. But that strategy can only be used to challenge for the title if a better player like messi/ronaldo is the one having that kind of free role.

We wanted to challenge for the title and not just make mata have the highest assists so mourinho did what he had to do.

Nobody is saying oscar is a god compared to mata but we are saying the team have a better setup now to fight for the title than when mata was playing like a second striker last season.

And the funny thing is that it's not just about Mata or Oscar, look at the players on the wings this year. Hazard in particular seems to be benefitting greatly from the guy next to him putting in more of a shift, but also a greater amount of responsibility. Then there's Willian on the other side who has been something of a revelation.

That's what I love about Oscar - he makes the player next to him better. The press works better with him. The midfield gets far more support from him and now he's adding goals and assists to his game. He's had more MOTM performances than any other player and he has carried this team, especially at the start of the season. You can see him growing in confidence with the shots he's taking. He even stepped up for a free-kick yesterday.

The argument for playing Mata isn't that he would fit this team better, but that we should build the team around him. Problem is there are only a few players in the world that top teams would build the entire side around and I'm not sure if Mata is one of them.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

And the funny thing is that it's not just about Mata or Oscar, look at the players on the wings this year. Hazard in particular seems to be benefitting greatly from the guy next to him putting in more of a shift, but also a greater amount of responsibility. Then there's Willian on the other side who has been something of a revelation.

That's what I love about Oscar - he makes the player next to him better. The press works better with him. The midfield gets far more support from him and now he's adding goals and assists to his game. He's had more MOTM performances than any other player and he has carried this team, especially at the start of the season. You can see him growing in confidence with the shots he's taking. He even stepped up for a free-kick yesterday.

The argument for playing Mata isn't that he would fit this team better, but that we should build the team around him. Problem is there are only a few players in the world that top teams would build the entire side around and I'm not sure if Mata is one of them.

Exactly. See how many good players that bayern had, but they didn't build the team around anyone last season and had fantastic success. Unless we have messi or ronaldo here that bayern team method is the best way forward for chelsea.

Oscars impact on the team is also underrated. What was neymar doing for brazil till oscar replaced Ganso? Oscars inclusion in the brazil team is what made brazil a more compact and complete team. The team benefited from his work rate and Neymar became far better in brazil just like hazard seems to be doing now.

[Jase 43,479]

Player Focus: Is Juan Mata a Mourinho Player?

[lionsden 4,689]

You are intentionally avoiding the point darrius is making.

Benitez set up our team with mata having the freedom of his life, while the rest of the team sat back and defended. So when we get the ball we pass to mata and he tries to break down the opposition. Any day mata is not on good form, or injured we lose the match.

That is why mata had that kind of stat. But that strategy can only be used to challenge for the title if a better player like messi/ronaldo is the one having that kind of free role.

We wanted to challenge for the title and not just make mata have the highest assists so mourinho did what he had to do.

Nobody is saying oscar is a god compared to mata but we are saying the team have a better setup now to fight for the title than when mata was playing like a second striker last season.

I haven't read so much drivel in a while. so our league performance last season was due to the notion that we built the team around mata (very debatable) and not because of multitude of reasons like

Benitez poor tactical showings e.g inability to make the right adjustments to see out games leading to conceding silly late goals, making daft and uninspiring substitutions like bringing on a right back for another right back when the team was trailing, permanently relegating our captain and organiser in defence to the bench which left Luiz and cahill out to dry and so on.

Having a very small and unbalanced squad to deal with the unprecedented number of fixtures last season. we played more competitive games than any other team in Europe last season and it's a mighty surprise that we were able to achieve what we achieved given the circumstances. Any observer without the blue tinted glasses would have been able to recognize that we never had the squad and caliber of players in certain positions to go the distance in the first place. There were more better equipped teams than us.

It's also worth noting that the chopping and changing of manager midway through the season and the disapproval of Di matteo's replacement by the fans resulting in a hostile and difficult working environment for the manager and players also impacted result.

Attributing our inability to challenge for the title last season to the team being built around our best player and one of the finest players in Europe is silly to say the least.

[dee25 1,044]

I haven't read so much drivel in a while. so our league performance last season was due to the notion that we built the team around mata (very debatable) and not because of multitude of reasons like

Benitez poor tactical showings e.g inability to make the right adjustments to see out games leading to conceding silly late goals, making daft and uninspiring substitutions like bringing on a right back for another right back when the team was trailing, permanently relegating our captain and organiser in defence to the bench which left Luiz and cahill out to dry and so on.

Having a very small and unbalanced squad to deal with the unprecedented number of fixtures last season. we played more competitive games than any other team in Europe last season and it's a mighty surprise that we were able to achieve what we achieved given the circumstances. Any observer without the blue tinted glasses would have been able to recognize that we never had the squad and caliber of players in certain positions to go the distance in the first place. There were more better equipped teams than us.

It's also worth noting that the chopping and changing of manager midway through the season and the disapproval of Di matteo's replacement by the fans resulting in a hostile and difficult working environment for the manager and players also impacted result.

Attributing our inability to challenge for the title last season to the team being built around our best player and one of the finest players in Europe is silly to say the least.

Very true. Also worth noting that the league being more open this season has allowed us more room for error. No one has run away with it just yet, which has sort of allowed us space to drop points and yet still be within touching distance from the top. That wasn't the case last season.

Really good points.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

I haven't read so much drivel in a while. so our league performance last season was due to the notion that we built the team around mata (very debatable) and not because of multitude of reasons like

Benitez poor tactical showings e.g inability to make the right adjustments to see out games leading to conceding silly late goals, making daft and uninspiring substitutions like bringing on a right back for another right back when the team was trailing, permanently relegating our captain and organiser in defence to the bench which left Luiz and cahill out to dry and so on.

Having a very small and unbalanced squad to deal with the unprecedented number of fixtures last season. we played more competitive games than any other team in Europe last season and it's a mighty surprise that we were able to achieve what we achieved given the circumstances. Any observer without the blue tinted glasses would have been able to recognize that we never had the squad and caliber of players in certain positions to go the distance in the first place. There were more better equipped teams than us.

It's also worth noting that the chopping and changing of manager midway through the season and the disapproval of Di matteo's replacement by the fans resulting in a hostile and difficult working environment for the manager and players also impacted result.

Attributing our inability to challenge for the title last season to the team being built around our best player and one of the finest players in Europe is silly to say the least.

I am not blaming our last season play on mata, but on the coaches who thought it was wise to give mata a free role upfront with the striker and make us play with 9 men without the ball.

Pls don't pretend that mata wasn't given a free role last season.

Every other season where he didn't have that freedom, even at valencia and this season he hasn't been as good as last season.

It is not good to give someone a free role when he is not at messi/ronaldo/kaka(in his prime) levels.

There were too much flaws in our tactical set up last season, and mourinho is right to set us up to be better.

In conclusion, the mata you hope to see only exists if mourinho tears up his tactical plans and builds the team around mata.

[lionsden 4,689]

Very true. Also worth noting that the league being more open this season has allowed us more room for error. No one has run away with it just yet, which has sort of allowed us to drop points and yet still be within touching distance from the top. That wasn't the case last season.

We have also had huge slice of luck this season in comparison to last season and our current league standing is quite flattering.

games against villa, westbrom, Liverpool (The two Eto'o incidents) and Man city where we were thoroughly outplayed and had Joe hart to thank for the last minute brainfart.