Juan Mata

[kellzfresh 7,226]

So basically the individual quality and talent doesn't matter much, as long as the system is right and every player pulling in the same direction and committed to the system. well I will like to see Fergie, Jose, pep or any other "world class" manager out there win major titles with Crystal palace and a bunch of lee cattermoles

You are intentionally avoiding the point darrius is making.

Benitez set up our team with mata having the freedom of his life, while the rest of the team sat back and defended. So when we get the ball we pass to mata and he tries to break down the opposition. Any day mata is not on good form, or injured we lose the match.

That is why mata had that kind of stat. But that strategy can only be used to challenge for the title if a better player like messi/ronaldo is the one having that kind of free role.

We wanted to challenge for the title and not just make mata have the highest assists so mourinho did what he had to do.

Nobody is saying oscar is a god compared to mata but we are saying the team have a better setup now to fight for the title than when mata was playing like a second striker last season.

[darrus 422]

You are intentionally avoiding the point darrius is making.

Benitez set up our team with mata having the freedom of his life, while the rest of the team sat back and defended. So when we get the ball we pass to mata and he tries to break down the opposition. Any day mata is not on good form, or injured we lose the match.

That is why mata had that kind of stat. But that strategy can only be used to challenge for the title if a better player like messi/ronaldo is the one having that kind of free role.

We wanted to challenge for the title and not just make mata have the highest assists so mourinho did what he had to do.

Nobody is saying oscar is a god compared to mata but we are saying the team have a better setup now to fight for the title than when mata was playing like a second striker last season.

Thanks, I was trying to say this but you said it much better.

[The only place to be 11,313]

You are intentionally avoiding the point darrius is making.

Benitez set up our team with mata having the freedom of his life, while the rest of the team sat back and defended. So when we get the ball we pass to mata and he tries to break down the opposition. Any day mata is not on good form, or injured we lose the match.

That is why mata had that kind of stat. But that strategy can only be used to challenge for the title if a better player like messi/ronaldo is the one having that kind of free role.

We wanted to challenge for the title and not just make mata have the highest assists so mourinho did what he had to do.

Nobody is saying oscar is a god compared to mata but we are saying the team have a better setup now to fight for the title than when mata was playing like a second striker last season.

And the funny thing is that it's not just about Mata or Oscar, look at the players on the wings this year. Hazard in particular seems to be benefitting greatly from the guy next to him putting in more of a shift, but also a greater amount of responsibility. Then there's Willian on the other side who has been something of a revelation.

That's what I love about Oscar - he makes the player next to him better. The press works better with him. The midfield gets far more support from him and now he's adding goals and assists to his game. He's had more MOTM performances than any other player and he has carried this team, especially at the start of the season. You can see him growing in confidence with the shots he's taking. He even stepped up for a free-kick yesterday.

The argument for playing Mata isn't that he would fit this team better, but that we should build the team around him. Problem is there are only a few players in the world that top teams would build the entire side around and I'm not sure if Mata is one of them.

[kellzfresh 7,226]

And the funny thing is that it's not just about Mata or Oscar, look at the players on the wings this year. Hazard in particular seems to be benefitting greatly from the guy next to him putting in more of a shift, but also a greater amount of responsibility. Then there's Willian on the other side who has been something of a revelation.

That's what I love about Oscar - he makes the player next to him better. The press works better with him. The midfield gets far more support from him and now he's adding goals and assists to his game. He's had more MOTM performances than any other player and he has carried this team, especially at the start of the season. You can see him growing in confidence with the shots he's taking. He even stepped up for a free-kick yesterday.

The argument for playing Mata isn't that he would fit this team better, but that we should build the team around him. Problem is there are only a few players in the world that top teams would build the entire side around and I'm not sure if Mata is one of them.

Exactly. See how many good players that bayern had, but they didn't build the team around anyone last season and had fantastic success. Unless we have messi or ronaldo here that bayern team method is the best way forward for chelsea.

Oscars impact on the team is also underrated. What was neymar doing for brazil till oscar replaced Ganso? Oscars inclusion in the brazil team is what made brazil a more compact and complete team. The team benefited from his work rate and Neymar became far better in brazil just like hazard seems to be doing now.

[Jase 43,479]

Player Focus: Is Juan Mata a Mourinho Player?

[lionsden 4,689]

You are intentionally avoiding the point darrius is making.

Benitez set up our team with mata having the freedom of his life, while the rest of the team sat back and defended. So when we get the ball we pass to mata and he tries to break down the opposition. Any day mata is not on good form, or injured we lose the match.

That is why mata had that kind of stat. But that strategy can only be used to challenge for the title if a better player like messi/ronaldo is the one having that kind of free role.

We wanted to challenge for the title and not just make mata have the highest assists so mourinho did what he had to do.

Nobody is saying oscar is a god compared to mata but we are saying the team have a better setup now to fight for the title than when mata was playing like a second striker last season.

I haven't read so much drivel in a while. so our league performance last season was due to the notion that we built the team around mata (very debatable) and not because of multitude of reasons like

Benitez poor tactical showings e.g inability to make the right adjustments to see out games leading to conceding silly late goals, making daft and uninspiring substitutions like bringing on a right back for another right back when the team was trailing, permanently relegating our captain and organiser in defence to the bench which left Luiz and cahill out to dry and so on.

Having a very small and unbalanced squad to deal with the unprecedented number of fixtures last season. we played more competitive games than any other team in Europe last season and it's a mighty surprise that we were able to achieve what we achieved given the circumstances. Any observer without the blue tinted glasses would have been able to recognize that we never had the squad and caliber of players in certain positions to go the distance in the first place. There were more better equipped teams than us.

It's also worth noting that the chopping and changing of manager midway through the season and the disapproval of Di matteo's replacement by the fans resulting in a hostile and difficult working environment for the manager and players also impacted result.

Attributing our inability to challenge for the title last season to the team being built around our best player and one of the finest players in Europe is silly to say the least.

[dee25 1,044]

I haven't read so much drivel in a while. so our league performance last season was due to the notion that we built the team around mata (very debatable) and not because of multitude of reasons like

Benitez poor tactical showings e.g inability to make the right adjustments to see out games leading to conceding silly late goals, making daft and uninspiring substitutions like bringing on a right back for another right back when the team was trailing, permanently relegating our captain and organiser in defence to the bench which left Luiz and cahill out to dry and so on.

Having a very small and unbalanced squad to deal with the unprecedented number of fixtures last season. we played more competitive games than any other team in Europe last season and it's a mighty surprise that we were able to achieve what we achieved given the circumstances. Any observer without the blue tinted glasses would have been able to recognize that we never had the squad and caliber of players in certain positions to go the distance in the first place. There were more better equipped teams than us.

It's also worth noting that the chopping and changing of manager midway through the season and the disapproval of Di matteo's replacement by the fans resulting in a hostile and difficult working environment for the manager and players also impacted result.

Attributing our inability to challenge for the title last season to the team being built around our best player and one of the finest players in Europe is silly to say the least.

Very true. Also worth noting that the league being more open this season has allowed us more room for error. No one has run away with it just yet, which has sort of allowed us space to drop points and yet still be within touching distance from the top. That wasn't the case last season.

Really good points.

[kellzfresh 7,226]

I haven't read so much drivel in a while. so our league performance last season was due to the notion that we built the team around mata (very debatable) and not because of multitude of reasons like

Benitez poor tactical showings e.g inability to make the right adjustments to see out games leading to conceding silly late goals, making daft and uninspiring substitutions like bringing on a right back for another right back when the team was trailing, permanently relegating our captain and organiser in defence to the bench which left Luiz and cahill out to dry and so on.

Having a very small and unbalanced squad to deal with the unprecedented number of fixtures last season. we played more competitive games than any other team in Europe last season and it's a mighty surprise that we were able to achieve what we achieved given the circumstances. Any observer without the blue tinted glasses would have been able to recognize that we never had the squad and caliber of players in certain positions to go the distance in the first place. There were more better equipped teams than us.

It's also worth noting that the chopping and changing of manager midway through the season and the disapproval of Di matteo's replacement by the fans resulting in a hostile and difficult working environment for the manager and players also impacted result.

Attributing our inability to challenge for the title last season to the team being built around our best player and one of the finest players in Europe is silly to say the least.

I am not blaming our last season play on mata, but on the coaches who thought it was wise to give mata a free role upfront with the striker and make us play with 9 men without the ball.

Pls don't pretend that mata wasn't given a free role last season.

Every other season where he didn't have that freedom, even at valencia and this season he hasn't been as good as last season.

It is not good to give someone a free role when he is not at messi/ronaldo/kaka(in his prime) levels.

There were too much flaws in our tactical set up last season, and mourinho is right to set us up to be better.

In conclusion, the mata you hope to see only exists if mourinho tears up his tactical plans and builds the team around mata.

[lionsden 4,689]

Very true. Also worth noting that the league being more open this season has allowed us more room for error. No one has run away with it just yet, which has sort of allowed us to drop points and yet still be within touching distance from the top. That wasn't the case last season.

We have also had huge slice of luck this season in comparison to last season and our current league standing is quite flattering.

games against villa, westbrom, Liverpool (The two Eto'o incidents) and Man city where we were thoroughly outplayed and had Joe hart to thank for the last minute brainfart.

[GodZola 630]

It is incredulous that so many opinions are being based on 3 players (Hazard, Oscar, Willian) that all of a sudden have clicked into gear (albeit more like a few half's of football) yet now they are suddenly ready to put a world class player in Mata on the scrapheap?! It wasn't that long ago member's on this forum were questioning Jose's ability in the transfer market because we acquired Willian when we already had Hazard, De Bruyne, Shirley etc to cover those positions, also to add to that Jose amongst some of the players were being slated for some of the poor results and performances previous to the last 4/5 games, just before this decent run we went out to Sunderland and the detractors were out in full! I don't remember reading too many posts asking for the introduction of these 3 players beforehand, think some have short memories.........

There is no doubt and I'm not pig ignorant to see that we have looked a far more composed side recently with some brilliant individual and collective performances, however the reason we have improved is not just because of the high pressing energy from our attack it is also based on solid defensive displays where we look more like the miserly José Chelsea of old and I include Mikel in that and many know I'm no fan of his.

Without question the recent performances bode well for the rest of the season but let's not go overboard with the praise because we can just as well fall on our arse with the same 3 players and that's why those writing off Mata or believe he should be sold to fund x, y or z are iincredibly naive imho, he still has a major role to play for us this season.

One last thing to add to the arguments above is that we have a far superior manager and squad this season to last, I said it before our bench now looks more like quality rather than having to turn to players like Benayoun, Turnbull etc and no offense to those players but it helps when you can turn to a few notches above that level when things aren't going great - how many teams would love to have Juan on their bench!

[Korea 734]

I dont even know what this thread is about anymore...

[Rom2013 446]

Sell him and buy Di Maria that is having problems in Madrid, today Di Maria offended the Real Madrid fans.

Or do an exchange with PSG for Lucas and another player.

This guy doesn't fit in the team. We need 4 great players in the AM with the right characteristics. Players that can press and create at the same time.

[Korea 734]

Sell him and buy Di Maria that is having problems in Madrid, today Di Maria offended the Real Madrid fans.

Or do an exchange with PSG for Lucas and another player.

This guy doesn't fit in the team. We need 4 great players in the AM with the right characteristics. Players that can press and create at the same time.

we have 4.

Wiliian-hazard-oscar-schurrle.

Lucas is still a raw player.....

[Rom2013 446]

we have 4.

Wiliian-hazard-oscar-schurrle.

Lucas is still a raw player.....

But just 3 of them are great.

Lucas will be a great player and is having problems in PSG. It's a great oportunity to get him and he is really similar to our other 3 players.

Mata doesn't fit.

[Korea 734]

But just 3 of them are great.

Lucas will be a great player and is having problems in PSG. It's a great oportunity to get him and he is really similar to our other 3 players.

Mata doesn't fit.

Lucas market value is incredibly high...

I doubt PSG would sell him considering his age and potential..

[The only place to be 11,313]

It is incredulous that so many opinions are being based on 3 players (Hazard, Oscar, Willian) that all of a sudden have clicked into gear (albeit more like a few half's of football) yet now they are suddenly ready to put a world class player in Mata on the scrapheap?! It wasn't that long ago member's on this forum were questioning Jose's ability in the transfer market because we acquired Willian when we already had Hazard, De Bruyne, Shirley etc to cover those positions, also to add to that Jose amongst some of the players were being slated for some of the poor results and performances previous to the last 4/5 games, just before this decent run we went out to Sunderland and the detractors were out in full! I don't remember reading too many posts asking for the introduction of these 3 players beforehand, think some have short memories.........

There is no doubt and I'm not pig ignorant to see that we have looked a far more composed side recently with some brilliant individual and collective performances, however the reason we have improved is not just because of the high pressing energy from our attack it is also based on solid defensive displays where we look more like the miserly José Chelsea of old and I include Mikel in that and many know I'm no fan of his.

Without question the recent performances bode well for the rest of the season but let's not go overboard with the praise because we can just as well fall on our arse with the same 3 players and that's why those writing off Mata or believe he should be sold to fund x, y or z are iincredibly naive imho, he still has a major role to play for us this season.

One last thing to add to the arguments above is that we have a far superior manager and squad this season to last, I said it before our bench now looks more like quality rather than having to turn to players like Benayoun, Turnbull etc and no offense to those players but it helps when you can turn to a few notches above that level when things aren't going great - how many teams would love to have Juan on their bench!

All very nice, but the question remains where does Mata actually play right now?

To my mind, he's probably THIRD choice in the number 10 spot behind Oscar and Willian. He's probably second choice on the right wing behind Willian. So what role does he play? Impact sub? He's not that type of player. He's the type you have to build an entire team around and let him dictate the tempo.

It's easy to say he makes us weaker in defence, but that's too simplistic. We press high up the pitch and that isn't just about defence, it's about creating chances for us to score as well. It's a dimension of the offence that is often ignored but it helps us control the tempo of games even without the ball.

So you're left with a player who is worth about £40 million to the right team who doesn't fit our system in his best role, doesn't really fit it on the wing and isn't the type of 'plan B' option you'd want off the bench. That's a £40 million asset on a team that needs to acquire players in other positions both in the short and medium-term. Sentiment aside (because the arguments for keeping Mata aren't based on where he fits in a tactical sense) there's a strong case for cashing in.

[Pizy 17,860]

All very nice, but the question remains where does Mata actually play right now?

To my mind, he's probably THIRD choice in the number 10 spot behind Oscar and Willian. He's probably second choice on the right wing behind Willian. So what role does he play? Impact sub? He's not that type of player. He's the type you have to build an entire team around and let him dictate the tempo.

It's easy to say he makes us weaker in defence, but that's too simplistic. We press high up the pitch and that isn't just about defence, it's about creating chances for us to score as well. It's a dimension of the offence that is often ignored but it helps us control the tempo of games even without the ball.

So you're left with a player who is worth about £40 million to the right team who doesn't fit our system in his best role, doesn't really fit it on the wing and isn't the type of 'plan B' option you'd want off the bench. That's a £40 million asset on a team that needs to acquire players in other positions both in the short and medium-term. Sentiment aside (because the arguments for keeping Mata aren't based on where he fits in a tactical sense) there's a strong case for cashing in.

Brillaint post.

Exactly why a Mata/Rooney swap makes so much sense. United are in dire need of some creativity and invention in their midfield. Their only mode of attack right now consists of everyone knocking the ball out to Valencia who then attempts (very poorly most of the time) to get crosses in. We are overloaded with creative players and are in dire need of a hard working, industrious, top class forward like Rooney.

[Korea 734]

Brillaint post.

Exactly why a Mata/Rooney swap makes so much sense. United are in dire need of some creativity and invention in their midfield. Their only mode of attack right now consists of everyone knocking the ball out to Valencia who then attempts (very poorly most of the time) to get crosses in. We are overloaded with creative players and are in dire need of a hard working, industrious, top class forward like Rooney.

United doesnt need Mata, they need a CM or a winger....

They needed Cesc/Thiago or Cristiano/Bale.