Juan Mata

[Stingray 9,441]

I think the whole argument of “well if [insert name of disliked player] did that, they would be crucified and beaten mercifully” is a somewhat slippery slope and I’m not sure if that’s a path we want to venture down for this particular issue. I could also use that slant and say, well if Mata had made headlines for going to our rivals’ Christmas party a day before our match against them, he probably wouldn’t have been so lucky to escape criticisms as Ash seemingly has been able to. My point is that we can sit here and trade “if this person did that” scenarios from now till tomorrow, but at the end of the day the fact still remains – using one, singular moment of outward frustration and ignoring all the other times that this player has been a model professional, all the other times this player has responded admirably - dismissing that and using that one incident to define this player well…..I’m sorry but that’s not only unreasonable but borders on narrow-mindedness.

If I’m an employee that is always early on time and I show up for work late and my boss slates me, going as far as questioning my work ethics, well he/she might feel that they are justified in doing so, but this person is still acting unreasonably. This isn’t a player that is constantly sulking on the bench, complaining to the press and generally being poisonous to the atmosphere. He had only one moment where he showed visible signs of frustration, so what? If we choose to singularly focus on that one moment of human error – one that a lot of players, even the most upstanding ones would be guilty of doing – and berate him for “questioning mourinho’s authority” then that’s no longer a rational criticism. That's being - in every sense of the word - myopic.

Fair point. Thanks for the reminder (no cynicism intended).

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

You're comparing one of the most talented teams of all time to our club(who is a great team, but not best of all time)? Why?

I'm sorry, but I like the player and thinks he should be playing somewhere where he can get minutes in. Crucify me if you must, but I think my stance is understandable.

Because a guy too good to be a squad player would have to be more than a squad player for their nation to get placed in such a category.

To even be at this club you have to be at the top 1-2% or so of footballers on this earth. There isnt a player in our senior squad who isnt good enough to go somewhere and have a very capable, if not great, side built around them. They ALL are too good to be squad players, but if you add them together we have a great squad. That is what every club should be reaching for.

[darrus 422]

People conveniently forget that for half the season already Mata hasn't set the world alight with his play. He's played a lot of matches, he's played on the right, he's played in his position - can you name one match when he influenced the result with his play, especially when we were doing badly? Oscar got some important goals, Hazard pulled us out of trouble a couple of times, Willian at least twice helped turn things around, even Schurrle had some decisive action. For Mata the only really good game he had was maybe against Arsenal in LC, and in that match we were cruising.

Some argue that he is playing out of position - not always, he's played #10 this season. Yesterday Oscar wan't playing his position too, he played on the left (well, they interchanged a lot, I distinctly remember him on the right minute or so before his goal, but nominally he was left, Willian right and Hazard center) and managed to do well. Not to mention Azpi who made himself an indisputable starter on "wrong" position.

In yesterday's match the difference was obvious not because Oscar and Willian scored and made a result, that's not the point. The second they came on the tempo of our play increased dramatically, and at that speed every fault of Soton's defence became glaring. That was what is needed to make a result. Mata is a good player based on past results, but so far this season he's failed to demonstrate it. I've read on tumblr that Mourinho purposefully makes him play with crap players just so he will look bad - maybe that is the reason? Or maybe Mata just doesn't do enough. It's not that he didn't have chances to show he is the best AM in our squad and should be playing every game.

But the main point is - it's impossible to build a whole teamplay around one player even if he is Messi (and Mata is not Messi, btw). It takes injury or streak of bad form to lose everything if you're relying on just one player. On the other hand, if there is a system in place and there are players who can adapt and cover at least two positions, you are pretty safe in most cases, no matter what happens with individuals.

Maybe Mata will be able to find a club that is going to build everything around him, but it certainly won't be a top club with big ambitions. I'm starting to understand why Real let him go instead of making him a starter. He is a very talented player, but his play has defects, and either he overcomes them or team should adapt to them.

[OnePound 22]

Because a guy too good to be a squad player would have to be more than a squad player for their nation to get placed in such a category.

If he would have born in any other country than he had, he wouldn't be a squad player.

[remains of the day 564]

Fair point. Thanks for the reminder (no cynicism intended).

No problem. You'll get my bill in the mail. You didn't think these reminders came free, did you?

[Alan Partridge 1,124]

He just cannot press the ball, he always looks too slow. Willian,Oscar,Hazard press really well and close down opponents fast.

As an attacking player with no defensive duties, he is one of the best out there.

World Cup year, he needs to move. Cash in on him and buy a DM or CM that Jose wants and avoid ruining a great players career.

[Stingray 9,441]

I've read on tumblr that Mourinho purposefully makes him play with crap players just so he will look bad - maybe that is the reason? Or maybe Mata just doesn't do enough. It's not that he didn't have chances to show he is the best AM in our squad and should be playing every game.

I don't believe so. If you have your own business you don't gamble like that. If you play on top or go for it that play is very dangerous as well. On the point of players: even in the KDB situation I believe Jose did rational. A manager can be wrong, but to intend it is a different matter.

[Ainsley Harriott 2,732]

I'm loving it. Between the Oscar dive discussion and the Mourinho-Mata "fight" (lol) this forum is rolling.

[HD3D 1,038]

And that's why I want him to join a club that would treat him with the level of respect he deserves.

So let's recap:

- A new manager is hired with a style and vision that is very different than that of others before him.

- One of the best players of the squad, perhaps the best, completely fails to adapt to the new way the team is playing.

- Because of his failure to adapt, the player under-preforms every single game and doesn't look half as good as he did before.

- Given the fact that the team and club come first, the player is naturally dropped from the starting 11 and is given a chance to regain his place only when the team can afford the risk.

I would like you to explain me how exactly is Mata being disrespected, and what, in your opinion, would be giving him "the respect he deserves".

[Chelsea? 892]

How is he too good to be a squad player?

I dont get that type of idea that players who are very talented cant be squad players. hIf e isnt too good to be a squad player for Spain, then he isnt too good to be a squad player for our club.

The only reason he's a squad player here is because he doesn't fit the system. He's been one of the top 10 EPL players in the past 2 years and shouldn't all of the sudden be dropped to a squad player.

He's a squad player for Spain because they have the top 3 mids in the world. If he played for any other National team, He'd be a starter. Even Fabregas didn't play much in the 2010 world cup.

[DDA 9,937]

I'm loving it. Between the Oscar dive discussion and the Mourinho-Mata "fight" (lol) this forum is rolling.

If I had a nickle for everytime I have seen this gif posted on this forum, I could migrate to America and set up a casino in Vegas.

[Ollie 4,400]

The substitution of Mata the other day was sadly the best thing that has happened to us all season. We all love Juan but fact is, Willian, Oscar and Hazard are the best 3 together. Mata will probably go on the summer and give us a lot of money, probably around £40m. That sub was such a wake up call.

[Jase 43,479]

The fact he has visibly reacted in the way he did. If that isn't showing discontent, and thus challenging Mourinho's decision and ultimately his authority, then I'm not quite sure what is. His slamming down of the seat and his subsequent scowl and gesture - all after blanking the boss - is as bad as walking straight down the tunnel. If he wasn't moaning about Mourinho, then why was he gesticulating so fervently? Was he moaning about the rain?

Yes, we can all see he was frustrated but like I said before, we don't even know what on earth exactly he was exactly frustrated about. If he was actually doing what you said, then fair enough. But if not, then what? For all we know, he could actually be complaining about something else. There is not even a single proof to substantiate your claim. Your assessment of the situation is merely an interpretation and yet it is treated as some sort of fact that Mata's frustration is seen as an indication of challenging Mourinho's decision and people being so quick to take up the moral high ground and pass judgment. There is a clear difference here of just being unhappy and moaning and actually challenging the decision made.

As for blanking the boss, were there even replays that showed the whole incident of that substitution or is that merely another interpretation assumed as a fact because of pictures him walking past Mourinho without looking at him? It's not as if Mourinho offered to shake his hand or wanted to pat him on the back and Mata completely ignored it. If we want to talk this whole blanking the boss thing because he didn't make contact with Mourinho as he went off, then this isn't the first time it happened in history really. Not the first time it has happened and won't be the last and it's non-event really. Has happened before and nothing was said of it but yet this gets blown out of proportion.

Like I have already expressed, I have made my various points and I will stand by them. Up to other people if they want to act so butt-hurt over me challenging Mr Perfect. The club > any one player. I love Mata to bits but I'm not happy with his reaction, it isn't what I expect from one of our players. That's just my view.

People acting butt-hurt on this whole thing about Mata? That point is seriously getting old. Gets used way too often in an argument for people to use and escape from a discussion. And speaking about butt-hurt, perhaps the more butt-hurt thing here is that people are completely going over 'butt-hurt' on this whole incident that happened yesterday.

I want him to bounce back and get back into the team, but at the minute, he should be unhappy with himself rather than the boss.

How do you even know he is not happy with himself? Have you spoken to him personally?

[zolayes 14,489]

The substitution of Mata the other day was sadly the best thing that has happened to us all season. We all love Juan but fact is, Willian, Oscar and Hazard are the best 3 together. Mata will probably go on the summer and give us a lot of money, probably around £40. That sub was such a wake up call.

I assume you mean £40 million ,,, its Torres we are hoping for £40 for

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

If he would have born in any other country than he had, he wouldn't be a squad player.

He could have easily been born in London, named John Mark, and sent away as a kid for being too small and slow while the kids hoofed the ball up to Andy Carroll.

If are if's, but the idea that magically someone who rides the bench for his nation is too good to ride the bench of a club that has the choice of getting the best players from around the world is preposterous.

The only reason he's a squad player here is because he doesn't fit the system. He's been one of the top 10 EPL players in the past 2 years and shouldn't all of the sudden be dropped to a squad player.

He's a squad player for Spain because they have the top 3 mids in the world. If he played for any other National team, He'd be a starter. Even Fabregas didn't play much in the 2010 world cup.

Then he isnt too good to be a squad player, and Fabregas isnt either as many from Arsenal said he was.

[Azpinator 2,325]

Kieran., on 02 Jan 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

I really don't feel sad when I think of Mata leaving tbh. 40m or so to be spent on a striker or midfielder sounds pretty decent to me, while we still have Willian, Hazard, Oscar and Schurrle. I would probably bring someone in the mold of Moses, solid wide player who wouldn't complain about being a squad player.

We have traore

Wait a sec, I thought in this forum doing well in pre-season means nothing? No?

[Amblève. 4,995]

Oh saint-Mata, can do no wrong..

All Mourinho's fault.

It's funny how you've changed your opinion on Mata ever since Mourinho returned. Kind of "jumping from bed to bed", huh?

[darrus 422]

Yes, we can all see he was frustrated but like I said before, we don't even know what on earth exactly he was exactly frustrated about. I

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As for blanking the boss, were there even replays that showed the whole incident of that substitution or is that merely another interpretation assumed as a fact because of pictures him walking past Mourinho without looking at him? It's not as if Mourinho offered to shake his hand or wanted to pat him on the back and Mata completely ignored it. If we want to talk this whole blanking the boss thing because he didn't make contact with Mourinho as he went off, then this isn't the first time it happened in history really. Not the first time it has happened and won't be the last and it's non-event really. Has happened before and yet this gets blown out of proportion.

That's a good point as we have only one photo of him walking past Mourinho and no video - and, I assume, no reports from those who were close - journalists and such? Certainly Mourinho didn't make a big deal out of it so either he's being lenient or there was no disrespect shown. For all we know he could have been furious about Torres' inability to score (something along the lines "I'm doing all I can and this *** can't hit a barn door from 2 metres distance and everyone will say again that I am useless as assistant just because he can't use any assists I make") or anything else, really.

But he does it on the first day of transfer window, under the cameras, after being subbed in a match he did nothing in and it looks like a demonstrative action, so it's hard to aprove. Especially after a good game that becomes overshadowed by all this hoopla. If he wanted to show that he is fed up and wants out there was no need, 'cos nobody is holding him here chained . If he didn't think - well, then he's more stupid than I thought.

In yesterday's match the only person he can be really angry with is himself.

And really I would have liked to know his opinion on his whole situation.

[Tomo 21,751]

I'm surprised he's taken him this long to kick off. one things for sure though, he won't be short of suitors and offers if/when he becomes available on the market so our loss really. from mata's perspective, he knows plenty of top to emerging clubs will be after him and make him a starter in their respective teams

Which side better than us will start him at their respective clubs?

Bayern Munich would not drop Ribery, Robben or Muller because they fit the system Bayern play and even then Gotze would be higher in the list to come off the bench.

Dortmund won't drop Kuba, Reus or Henrick either, because while Mata as an individual is arguably better than those 3, they fit Dortmund's high energy system perfectly.

Pellegrini would most probably choose Silva. Arsenal he will have to fight with Ozil and Cazorla.

Real or Barca he won't even get half the minutes he gets here even now, PSG he will have to fight with Moura and Lavezzi, even at Tottenham he will have competition in the form of Christian Eriksen. Athletico's team are also built on high pressing which means he will have just as big a fight on his hands as he does here. If he goes to Napoli, he has Hamsik to compete with, the list goes on and on.

The best club he can go to and still be star of the show is Monaco or ,and even then they will probably sign competition for his place eventually.

If players want to play at top clubs fighting for trophies (especially when we have other top players in his position), they have to fight for their place, and Mata is no different to any player in world football.

If he want's to go back to being the 'star of the show' he will either have to like any other professional outperform world class players, i love Mata, great player, nice guy, but none of those clubs above would build their system around him, so why Jose is getting stick for this situation i will never know.

[kobematabryant 400]

As long as we don't sell him to Man Utd, it's all fine. Selling Mata and buying a quality striker is ideal so I am hoping it happens. We have better players in our squad than Mata, we don't frankly need him, unless we have to use him to replace injured players. Let's be honest, he wants to be a regular at the team and it would only make sense if we sold him to a club where he can play regularly. It's not Mourinho's fault that Mata can't adapt to his style.