Wayne Rooney

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Should we be concerned about not wanting to spend 60m on Cavani and Falcao? i dont think so. Its a fair decision by the club.

Should we be concerned about us not bidding for strikers like Gomez, Higuain, Jovetic (if you have, throw more names)? imo, no. I think non of them would have been a good buy for the team Mou wants to have, and its much better to go after Rooney.

Should we be concerned if we wont get Rooney and our striker force will be Ba, Torres and Lukaku? yes.

Dont pay 60mio for Cavani, I never said we should (unless we realy want PL title; as Mata said so), but find a striker for reasonable price who is also good. Sticking to Ba and Torres (I see no problem in lukaku, but he aint the big game player yet) could back fire again. We have shit strike force for years now (even Drogba wasnt THAT unstopable in last years). It would be nice to see someone who will score goals all year and bring important points to team for a change (doesnt have to be expensive).

[Sidzeret 2,257]

Napoli paid 34.5m for Higuain. What a waste of money that was. Rooney is a much better player. Come on Chelsea just get him.

I hope we dont go in for Suarez, he is a terrible professional. Hate the guy regardless of how good he is.

Mourinho will never want a player like Suarez... He doesn't want any Ill disciplined players stealing his limelight

[Sidzeret 2,257]

De Laurentiis said Chelsea never even enquired about Cavani.

He's just a greedy bugger... I reckon we did make 40m + Torres bid.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

No because our team is not built around our strikers but rather around our attacking midfielders. Bar City, who in the PL has a midfield that even compares to ours?

But we dont even have attacking midfield fixed. Mata, Oscar and Kdb will never play together but they are all very good. Plenty of quality strikers but we dont have them positioned. Only Hazard has 'cemented' position at RW. Speaking about out deep midfield, its terrible though. Also, with shit striker like Torres, Ba who cant finish and Lukaku who might not reach what people demand in first season, who will score goals given by defenders?

Mate, both Barca and Real dont have pure striker at the moment, they got destroyed in CL. Having prolific striker is sometimes enough to win biggest titles.

[Weckerz 3,781]

But we dont even have attacking midfield fixed. Mata, Oscar and Kdb will never play together but they are all very good. Plenty of quality strikers but we dont have them positioned. Only Hazard has 'cemented' position at RW. Speaking about out deep midfield, its terrible though. Also, with shit striker like Torres, Ba who cant finish and Lukaku who might not reach what people demand in first season, who will score goals given by defenders?

Mate, both Barca and Real dont have pure striker at the moment, they got destroyed in CL. Having prolific striker is sometimes enough to win biggest titles.

LW*

How can our attacking midfield not be 'fixed' when you have Hazard, Mata, Oscar, KDB, Schurrle and Moses, who are versatile enough to be played almost anywhere up front?

I agree we need a striker though. A solid cm wouldn't hurt either.

[Magic Lamps 11,668]

Our midfield will oustcore the strike department easily. I mean we got 5 mids to one striker anyway, whilst one of our dms is Lampard...

as if rooney wouldnt try to play as good as possible and just chill on the bench. if he stays, he will give his all. also he hasnt hand in a transfer request yet..so maybe his desire isnt that big to move.

@Magic Lamps

they had the same squad the last season and still won the league without big problems. so, yes, they are atm at a better position than we are. at least they have 4!!! proper strikers while we have none (or one upcoming with Lukaku). people have burried them so many times and still they won. also the transfer summer isnt over yet..who knows who they will buy.

Yeah, but they do not have SAF anymore.

[robsblubot 3,529]

He's just a greedy bugger... I reckon we did make 40m + Torres bid.

I think you meant 40m - Torres bid...

[Peace. 4,352]

Can those who say Rooney is in decline explain why he's in decline? I keep seeing the same statement but there's nothing backing it up apart from "Look at Torres", which isn't a strong argument at all in my opinion.

Rooney's not in decline though. Don't know how anyone could say a player who was played all over the place but still scored 12 goals and 10 assists in 22 starts in the PL is in decline.

Yes, into my opinion he's on the decline. And I'll try to explain you why.

Regarding the stat you use as example, you could have a point, but not really. It neither does show he has not declined ; nor does show that he has progressed. So you can grasp my point, I will use a few exaples. For instance, Lampard has scored 15 goals (and only one assist) in 21 starts ; which is statistically good for a midfielder. Though, you will agree with me, he is declining (and this for many seasons) and he was fairly average the past season. Another example is David Villa. In 17 starts in La Liga, he has scored 10 goals and made five assists. That's roughly similar to Rooney (for the dabate sake !) — though once again, this player is on the decline and had a bad season.

By stating this, I am not trying to prove that he is declining. I am just trying to stress out the fact that these kind of stats and a player's progression (or regression) are not necessarily correlated. Some players, despite being off-form (or in decline), will still score a fair amount of goals because they have it in them ; that's the case of all the aforementioned players. To extrapolate, Pirlo and Xavi are still among the best playmakers, even if they are far from the players they were, because they have the playmaking DNA.

But let's drop statistics for the moment and let's concentrate ourselves upon perception, and perception only. I do agree with Ferguson on the matter — we already saw the best of Rooney. And in my honest opinion, ever since grosso modo 2010, Rooney is on the decline. That doesn't mean that he has become a poor player. He has still managed to stay a top player. That's because he has adapted his game ; he has compensated the loss of certain abilities he lost by adding other abilities to his game. Indeed, nowadays he is a lot more versatile than he was before, his passing game is better, he use more his brain, etc...

Rooney has lost pace and speed. A few members have already stated this fact, though some others retorted that it didn't matter because it was never a part of Rooney's game... I'll claim it high and loud : Rooney has started to decline ever since he has started to lose his pace and speed — as "slow" as he may be.

Losing your speed doesn't only mean that you'll be less fast...!!!! It also implies a loss of another thing which is more important, in my view, in football than speed — the mobility. And if you lose your mobility, you won't have the same, what we call in French, "volume of play". It's such a shame there's no equivalent in english, because it's a very important notion in football, into my eyes. It's hard to explain, but in short, the "volume of play" is : your work-rate + your participation in both defensive and offensive phases (i.e. participating in the defensive duties, participating to the building of attacks, moving to make you available for a pass, moving to out-number the opponent in one area, etc...) + the ground you cover + the runs you make + the number of minutes you can do that.... For instance, Ramires has a big "volume of play".

This is a key notion, because this is what allows players, besides their technical abilities, to set their influence on the game. You can have a Messi in both of your feet, if you stay still, you will do nothing. Speed has never been a part of Terry's game, though now he doesn't have speed anymore -> he lost his mobility and thus he finds himselves pretty often in situations where he's all over the place (Against Liverpool two seasons ago and against Newcastle last season, for instance). Speed has never been a part of Xavi's and Pirlo's game ; they still have their technical abilities, though they can't have the influence on games like they had before because they have a lesser "volume of play". The same goes for Lampard. Speed has never been a part of his game. But now he's less mobil, he doesn't provide half of the influence on the game he had before.

This is exactly why I claim that Rooney is on the decline. He has lost in mobility and velocity. He doesn't have the same "volume of play" any more. He doesn't have the same influence on the game that he had pre-2010. He still scores a lot of goals because his sheer quality is way above the one of your average footballer and he has adapted his game so to lessen the abilities he has lost. I am not implying that he will become as good as Heskey overnight, but he is on the downside part of his development — which is irrefutable. He will nonetheless stay a very good players for the years to come, because he has excellent technical abilities and has a great football IQ.

Voilà voilà.

[Joelasticot 111]

Yes, into my opinion he's on the decline. And I'll try to explain you why.

Regarding the stat you use as example, you could have a point, but not really. It neither does show he has not declined ; nor does show that he has progressed. So you can grasp my point, I will use a few exaples. For instance, Lampard has scored 15 goals (and only one assist) in 21 starts ; which is statistically good for a midfielder. Though, you will agree with me, he is declining (and this for many seasons) and he was fairly average the past season. Another example is David Villa. In 17 starts in La Liga, he has scored 10 goals and made five assists. That's roughly similar to Rooney (for the dabate sake !) — though once again, this player is on the decline and had a bad season.

By stating this, I am not trying to prove that he is declining. I am just trying to stress out the fact that these kind of stats and a player's progression (or regression) are not necessarily correlated. Some players, despite being off-form (or in decline), will still score a fair amount of goals because they have it in them ; that's the case of all the aforementioned players. To extrapolate, Pirlo and Xavi are still among the best playmakers, even if they are far from the players they were, because they have the playmaking DNA.

But let's drop statistics for the moment and let's concentrate ourselves upon perception, and perception only. I do agree with Ferguson on the matter — we already saw the best of Rooney. And in my honest opinion, ever since grosso modo 2010, Rooney is on the decline. That doesn't mean that he has become a poor player. He has still managed to stay a top player. That's because he has adapted his game ; he has compensated the loss of certain abilities he lost by adding other abilities to his game. Indeed, nowadays he is a lot more versatile than he was before, his passing game is better, he use more his brain, etc...

Rooney has lost pace and speed. A few members have already stated this fact, though some others retorted that it didn't matter because it was never a part of Rooney's game... I'll claim it high and loud : Rooney has started to decline ever since he has started to lose his pace and speed — as "slow" as he may be.

Losing your speed doesn't only mean that you'll be less fast...!!!! It also implies a loss of another thing which is more important, in my view, in football than speed — the mobility. And if you lose your mobility, you won't have the same, what we call in French, "volume of play". It's such a shame there's no equivalent in english, because it's a very important notion in football, into my eyes. It's hard to explain, but in short, the "volume of play" is : your work-rate + your participation in both defensive and offensive phases (i.e. participating in the defensive duties, participating to the building of attacks, moving to make you available for a pass, moving to out-number the opponent in one area, etc...) + the ground you cover + the runs you make + the number of minutes you can do that.... For instance, Ramires has a big "volume of play".

This is a key notion, because this is what allows players, besides their technical abilities, to set their influence on the game. You can have a Messi in both of your feet, if you stay still, you will do nothing. Speed has never been a part of Terry's game, though now he doesn't have speed anymore -> he lost his mobility and thus he finds himselves pretty often in situations where he's all over the place (Against Liverpool two seasons ago and against Newcastle last season, for instance). Speed has never been a part of Xavi's and Pirlo's game ; they still have their technical abilities, though they can't have the influence on games like they had before because they have a lesser "volume of play". The same goes for Lampard. Speed has never been a part of his game. But now he's less mobil, he doesn't provide half of the influence on the game he had before.

This is exactly why I claim that Rooney is on the decline. He has lost in mobility and velocity. He doesn't have the same "volume of play" any more. He doesn't have the same influence on the game that he had pre-2010. He still scores a lot of goals because his sheer quality is way above the one of your average footballer and he has adapted his game so to lessen the abilities he has lost. I am not implying that he will become as good as Heskey overnight, but he is on the downside part of his development — which is irrefutable. He will nonetheless stay a very good players for the years to come, because he has excellent technical abilities and has a great football IQ.

Voilà voilà.

I agree with you the very notion of what you call 'volume of play' is quite useful in some situations. This for me why a guy like Mereiles was so useful to us when we had him at the bridge.

However, Speed and pace are not the only things that define your 'volume of play'. You need vision (or tactical knowledge or whatever you would call it) to know where to be at because as you said "you could have a messi in both your feet' and move all around the pitch but you would still be useless if u didn't know where to run. And most of all, not only you need to be mobile you also need stamina to have a big 'volume of play'.

With that in mind I'm sure you can think of a few players who are really fast but don't have such a big 'volume of play'.

That's why I think that losing pace and speed is not always so hurtful for the 'volume of play' (or the all round game) of a player.

If i remember correctly Pirlo was one of the players who ran the most in the Euro's.

Anyway you might be right but I think the point you make although very much sensible is not enough to prove Rooney is on the decline.

[Berke 58]

But we dont even have attacking midfield fixed. Mata, Oscar and Kdb will never play together but they are all very good. Plenty of quality strikers but we dont have them positioned. Only Hazard has 'cemented' position at RW. Speaking about out deep midfield, its terrible though. Also, with shit striker like Torres, Ba who cant finish and Lukaku who might not reach what people demand in first season, who will score goals given by defenders?

Mate, both Barca and Real dont have pure striker at the moment, they got destroyed in CL. Having prolific striker is sometimes enough to win biggest titles.

That obviously isn't the case for bayern. Our attacking 3 are on par with Bayern's however they have cemented a team cohesion strategy and are extremely disciplined with the help of 2 of the best midfielders in scheiny and javi Martinez.

For us: fix the pivot or fix the striker position, both would be nice

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

I don't agree that speed is in any way related to volume of play. The way you defined volume of play, it simply just means workrate to me and to me workrate is all about the effort you put in. Unless he's unfit and lost stamina then he can regain his infamous workrate.

[DDA 9,691]

Yes, into my opinion he's on the decline. And I'll try to explain you why.

Regarding the stat you use as example, you could have a point, but not really. It neither does show he has not declined ; nor does show that he has progressed. So you can grasp my point, I will use a few exaples. For instance, Lampard has scored 15 goals (and only one assist) in 21 starts ; which is statistically good for a midfielder. Though, you will agree with me, he is declining (and this for many seasons) and he was fairly average the past season. Another example is David Villa. In 17 starts in La Liga, he has scored 10 goals and made five assists. That's roughly similar to Rooney (for the dabate sake !) though once again, this player is on the decline and had a bad season.

By stating this, I am not trying to prove that he is declining. I am just trying to stress out the fact that these kind of stats and a player's progression (or regression) are not necessarily correlated. Some players, despite being off-form (or in decline), will still score a fair amount of goals because they have it in them ; that's the case of all the aforementioned players. To extrapolate, Pirlo and Xavi are still among the best playmakers, even if they are far from the players they were, because they have the playmaking DNA.

But let's drop statistics for the moment and let's concentrate ourselves upon perception, and perception only. I do agree with Ferguson on the matter we already saw the best of Rooney. And in my honest opinion, ever since grosso modo 2010, Rooney is on the decline. That doesn't mean that he has become a poor player. He has still managed to stay a top player. That's because he has adapted his game ; he has compensated the loss of certain abilities he lost by adding other abilities to his game. Indeed, nowadays he is a lot more versatile than he was before, his passing game is better, he use more his brain, etc...

Rooney has lost pace and speed. A few members have already stated this fact, though some others retorted that it didn't matter because it was never a part of Rooney's game... I'll claim it high and loud : Rooney has started to decline ever since he has started to lose his pace and speed as "slow" as he may be.

Losing your speed doesn't only mean that you'll be less fast...!!!! It also implies a loss of another thing which is more important, in my view, in football than speed the mobility. And if you lose your mobility, you won't have the same, what we call in French, "volume of play". It's such a shame there's no equivalent in english, because it's a very important notion in football, into my eyes. It's hard to explain, but in short, the "volume of play" is : your work-rate + your participation in both defensive and offensive phases (i.e. participating in the defensive duties, participating to the building of attacks, moving to make you available for a pass, moving to out-number the opponent in one area, etc...) + the ground you cover + the runs you make + the number of minutes you can do that.... For instance, Ramires has a big "volume of play".

This is a key notion, because this is what allows players, besides their technical abilities, to set their influence on the game. You can have a Messi in both of your feet, if you stay still, you will do nothing. Speed has never been a part of Terry's game, though now he doesn't have speed anymore -> he lost his mobility and thus he finds himselves pretty often in situations where he's all over the place (Against Liverpool two seasons ago and against Newcastle last season, for instance). Speed has never been a part of Xavi's and Pirlo's game ; they still have their technical abilities, though they can't have the influence on games like they had before because they have a lesser "volume of play". The same goes for Lampard. Speed has never been a part of his game. But now he's less mobil, he doesn't provide half of the influence on the game he had before.

This is exactly why I claim that Rooney is on the decline. He has lost in mobility and velocity. He doesn't have the same "volume of play" any more. He doesn't have the same influence on the game that he had pre-2010. He still scores a lot of goals because his sheer quality is way above the one of your average footballer and he has adapted his game so to lessen the abilities he has lost. I am not implying that he will become as good as Heskey overnight, but he is on the downside part of his development which is irrefutable. He will nonetheless stay a very good players for the years to come, because he has excellent technical abilities and has a great football IQ.

Voilà voilà.

I can understand and absolutely agree that Rooney's 'best' days are behind him. Regarding the loss of 'volume of play' that every player experiences towards the tail of end of their career, I truly believe you have to take other things into consideration. Yes speed does become a big factor in certain areas of a players game as age creeps up on them and as much as I hate to use the cliche of Fernandos decline, he is the perfect example. In the early stages of Rooney's career his greatest weapon was the explosive power and pace he used to tear defences apart. Half a dozen of seasons and a handfull of injuries later, his pace has vanished. Does this mean Rooney is deemed surplus to requirements? No and II'll tell you why when playing the striker role at Chelsea won't require pace in Rooney's case. As mentonied in many posts previous, Wayne has world class ability and can score from anywhere within range. SAF played Rooney in the deeper role which would be the logical choice to play someone who has lost his bullyish pace but still has the tools to unlock defences from afar and build attacks. Though this isn't how I expect Mourinho to utilize Wayne's attributes at SW6. Jose is familiar with the Premiership clubs war tactics when it comes to playing us. We all know at least 80% of our Premiership games are played in amd around the oppisitions box and this is why I believe pace isn't a problem for Rooney if he was to join. You say thr lack of pace leads to a regression of mobility and I would have to disagree. You also go on to say that Pirlo doesn't influence games because of a lack in mobility and that would be why I have to disagree with both statements. Pirlo is still a key player for club and especially country. He still has an incredible sense of positioning and awareness of vision. This also falls kindly for Rooney as he possesses both which are still extremely useful tools in football. World Class players tend to be in the right place at the right time and believe me Wayne is no exception. I know that all of Fernando's nightmares have hinged on similar aspects of his game regressing but let's not forget that Wayne has proven his technical ability in the Premiership for a lot longer period than Torres ever did. In conclusion to what I have writen, yes Wayne can't and won't be the explosive player he once was and for me that was when he was at his best but make no mistake that because of his loss in 'volume of play', he still can show that he is a world class striker. With his natural tendency to be in the right place at the right time and score from positions that some players can only dream of will be why Jose wants him here. I think Rooney is the man for the big occasion in club football and what better stage to proove it on than, 'a night with mazcar at the Bridge'.

[Las7 951]

I don't like the Looney mania, this is a guy who is best suited to play behind the striker. In fact I feel he will have a diminished return as a striker because that position doesn't best utilize his main assets; muscling through; having great vision and passing capability also up top he can't dwell on the ball and make the best decision. When he was playing up top for United his other qualities were diminished and his overall impact on the shape of the team was effected. If we didn't have Mata I'd be inclined to take this "ego" on as a an option up top in case of emergency but mainly in that "10" position.

Since day one I don't think this is transfer we need and Lukaku could provide as much up top as Looney does.

[bluesman2610 1,348]

I don't like the Looney mania, this is a guy who is best suited to play behind the striker. In fact I feel he will have a diminished return as a striker because that position doesn't best utilize his main assets; muscling through; having great vision and passing capability also up top he can't dwell on the ball and make the best decision. When he was playing up top for United his other qualities were diminished and his overall impact on the shape of the team was effected. If we didn't have Mata I'd be inclined to take this "ego" on as a an option up top in case of emergency but mainly in that "10" position.

Since day one I don't think this is transfer we need and Lukaku could provide as much up top as Looney does.

not according to mourinho who said our current strikers lukaku included are all the type that need space behind defenders.. ronney is the kind of striker that doesn't require space so when teams park the bus he is someone with our attacking mids that can break it down and get a good shot off..

[Las7 951]

not according to mourinho who said our current strikers lukaku included are all the type that need space behind defenders.. ronney is the kind of striker that doesn't require space so when teams park the bus he is someone with our attacking mids that can break it down and get a good shot off..

Supposedly Benzema was this type of player but it didn't work

Teams would defend deep when we had Drogba up top; teams in Italy would defend deep when Eto'o or Milito were playing for Inter

It doesn't matter if what we have up top is good enough. At United and England I've never felt that's Looney's best position is leading the line - give him something to work off and be able to do his thing. He was playing just fine behind RvP when fit but his ego cannot be matched - threatens to leave club because they lack ambition when they sign a big name player to compete for the spot light throws a hissy fit.

If Jose gets him that's all fine and dandy to me since he seems to really want him but I won't be too excited by this signing I feel that we got a superiour player to play in Looney's best position - Mata

[TheCount 146]

Why are we looking for big names only? Drobga wasnt big before he signed with us and look how he turned out,

Fuck the big names, lets get someone good and make him our own, i can also see schurlle ending up as a striker if Ba goes or due to under performing people in front.

[JayC 171]

not according to mourinho who said our current strikers lukaku included are all the type that need space behind defenders.. ronney is the kind of striker that doesn't require space so when teams park the bus he is someone with our attacking mids that can break it down and get a good shot off..

Rooney's actually quite terrible when pressured these days; passing and ball control has been average all season. He definitely requires plenty of space. I can't remember the last time I saw him beat a player... He's also added this 'Hollywood' ball to his game, where he tries to play a pass he's simply not capable of. He's been frustrating to watch, to be honest.

Rooney will want at least assurance of a starting role if he would join though, or he's swapping one problem for another. I'm pretty sure you would find it hard to play both Rooney and Mata. I mean, they're both so similar in what they attempt to do. I've watched Rooney for a long time, and I personally don't see him as a striker. He's a shadow/support striker who drifts and tries to create. If you take his activity away (being involved in play) he becomes sloppy and goes to sleep.

Anyway Mata is superior. I don't know why Jose would want Rooney. Maybe four years ago.... Perhaps Jose sees what I do. I think he desperately needs a new challenge. I'm not sure how Chelsea would offer that though.

I'd be happy to sell though if we got a £35-£40 million offer.

[Las7 951]

I feel we got no chance to sign him anyway unless United buy Cesc who is going to Looney's direct replacement in their setup behind the striker providing the final ball and scoring goals from deeper than RvP.

I don't see Cesc leaving Barca and frankly there are not too many "10" that they can buy instead(interesting their lot throwing around Mata's name to the media)