Welcome Mauricio Pochettino

[YorkshireBlue 3,168]

  On 28/02/2024 at 15:09, lucio said:

He didn’t play a single game in his natural position here under a manger who thought Sanchez was better than petrovic. You can’t say he wasn’t good enough. Dortmund would abuse us 1 on 1 and he’s good enough for them 

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The forum was full of messages about how he wasn't good enough, it isn't just me saying it.

 

  On 28/02/2024 at 15:17, lucio said:

Well yes , it’s the clubs fault ultimately for hiring complete shit like potter Lampard and poch and ruining the squad. 
but even if we had a perfect squad , poch wouldn’t cut it , so what’s the point ? They’d probably hire another second rate , yes-man loser , that’s the only reason for keeping him , but you’d also have to accept the club is dead at that point 

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Again this is far easier to say than the actual reality. We simply don't know it Poch could do it with a team of decent experienced players, the difference between youth and experience is night and day. If poch gets sacked I hope we get a "world class" manager because this narrative that any other WC manager would have this team firing is simply not true. Players play to how other players are around them, take Enzo for example in the world cup, he was amazing because of who he had around him, he will have been getting constant directions of senior players on the pitch. You cannot polish a turd, no matter who the person trying to polish it is.

[lucio 5,418]

  On 28/02/2024 at 15:29, YorkshireBlue said:

The forum was full of messages about how he wasn't good enough, it isn't just me saying it.

 

Again this is far easier to say than the actual reality. We simply don't know it Poch could do it with a team of decent experienced players, the difference between youth and experience is night and day. If poch gets sacked I hope we get a "world class" manager because this narrative that any other WC manager would have this team firing is simply not true. Players play to how other players are around them, take Enzo for example in the world cup, he was amazing because of who he had around him, he will have been getting constant directions of senior players on the pitch. You cannot polish a turd, no matter who the person trying to polish it is.

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Forum is full of messages saying every player isn’t good enough. It was based off him playing 5 minutes every other month out of position under a bad manager in a team full of inexperience

[YorkshireBlue 3,168]

  On 28/02/2024 at 15:29, lucio said:

Problem was , we were continuing with 3 atb when our wingbacks (James and chilwell ) were injured so it was just absolute aids,  with gusto and maatsen flying down the flanks it could have been an option , as well as providing additional cover for the elderly silva and inexperienced colwill , would make enzo and caicedo/ gallaghers job easier too 

no , it’s not ideal , a well built and managed team like city , Madrid etc won’t be using 3 atb but we don’t have the players or the technical ability to dominate with other formations , it’s a formation to help less talented teams be competitive, and ultimately we won our last PL and CL with this formation 

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I think with a fully fit team a 433 is absolutely fine back 4 of gusto fofana colwill chilwell 

Midfield 3 of Enzo caicedo lavia 

And a front 3 of Jackson new striker palmer 

The new striker cannot be a young inexperienced kid though, and we build from that foundation 

[lucio 5,418]

  On 28/02/2024 at 15:33, YorkshireBlue said:

I think with a fully fit team a 433 is absolutely fine back 4 of gusto fofana colwill chilwell 

Midfield 3 of Enzo caicedo lavia 

And a front 3 of Jackson new striker palmer 

The new striker cannot be a young inexperienced kid though, and we build from that foundation 

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Not bad but ideally you’d upgrade chilwell and Jackson that’s a weak looking left side. 

[YorkshireBlue 3,168]

  On 28/02/2024 at 15:32, lucio said:

Forum is full of messages saying every player isn’t good enough. It was based off him playing 5 minutes every other month out of position under a bad manager in a team full of inexperience

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But there stems the problem, your using bad manager and a team full of inexperience in the same sentence, all the manager can do is set the team up and these players need to gain the experience, once they do it makes any managers job easier. You give the best joiner an apprentice and see what you end up with as a final cabinet for example, then give the same joiner an experienced joiner the difference is night and day, it's the exact same in football

[YorkshireBlue 3,168]

  On 28/02/2024 at 15:35, lucio said:

Not bad but ideally you’d upgrade chilwell and Jackson that’s a weak looking left side. 

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TBF Jacksons looked twice the player on the left, chilwell I agree with but we need some experience in the team and when he's properly fit and onit he can be one hell of a player.

[lucio 5,418]

  On 28/02/2024 at 15:36, YorkshireBlue said:

But there stems the problem, your using bad manager and a team full of inexperience in the same sentence, all the manager can do is set the team up and these players need to gain the experience, once they do it makes any managers job easier. You give the best joiner an apprentice and see what you end up with as a final cabinet for example, then give the same joiner an experienced joiner the difference is night and day, it's the exact same in football

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He’s setting the team up poorly regardless of experience. A team full of experience can carry a poor manager (Di matteo, grant ) but an inexperienced team cant. 
we need more experience, quality and a better manager , that’s the bottom line 

[YorkshireBlue 3,168]

@lucio don't get me wrong I don't think poch is world class, but I saw what he did to that spurs team and how they played and it's nothing like we are seeing here. So from that basis I know what he's trying to do, problem we have is these players don't have the experience to know, when to move up when to go in or side deep or switch sides, you can see it in our play! So much seconded guessing.

  On 28/02/2024 at 15:41, lucio said:

He’s setting the team up poorly regardless of experience. A team full of experience can carry a poor manager (Di matteo, grant ) but an inexperienced team cant. 
we need more experience, quality and a better manager , that’s the bottom line 

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And an inexperienced team couldn't carry a decent manager, and there lies the problem. Change the manager and we have the same issue time and time again, first we need to get a well balanced team, the recruitment and injury department have been below par, far below. And I'm not sure about setting up the team up poorly, because lol at our bench lol we have fuck all.

Edited February 28, 2024 by YorkshireBlue

[lucio 5,418]

  On 28/02/2024 at 15:43, YorkshireBlue said:

@lucio don't get me wrong I don't think poch is world class, but I saw what he did to that spurs team and how they played and it's nothing like we are seeing here. So from that basis I know what he's trying to do, problem we have is these players don't have the experience to know, when to move up when to go in or side deep or switch sides, you can see it in our play! So much seconded guessing.

And an inexperienced team couldn't carry a decent manager, and there lies the problem. Change the manager and we have the same issue time and time again, first we need to get a well balanced team, the recruitment and injury department have been below par, far below. And I'm not sure about setting up the team up poorly, because lol at our bench lol we have fuck all.

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A top class manager wouldn’t need carrying and you’d at least see signs of good play, there’s been nothing to suggest poch is heading in the right direction. I’m not just talking about the lineup , it’s the awful tactics , no pressing , too much space between the midfielders etc 

it makes sense to give someone like klopp time given his track record , but not serial losers like poch or nothing managers like potter 

you can opt for patience when you actually hire someone good 

[YorkshireBlue 3,168]

  On 28/02/2024 at 15:51, lucio said:

A top class manager wouldn’t need carrying and you’d at least see signs of good play, there’s been nothing to suggest poch is heading in the right direction. I’m not just talking about the lineup , it’s the awful tactics , no pressing , too much space between the midfielders etc 

it makes sense to give someone like klopp time given his track record , but not serial losers like poch or nothing managers like potter 

you can opt for patience when you actually hire someone good 

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But by your own words if we hired some one good we wouldn't need patience lol, some of our patterns of play have been excellent, our problems happen when teams just put 11 men behind the ball, these players have all come from terms bar maybe Palmer, where they have never had to deal with this before, experience comes from playing and the more they play and the more mistakes they make the better players they will become. Poch was never brought in the win trophy's and we all know it, poch has been brought in to mould these young men into a team and create a solid foundation. You can't win trophy's with a young team like this, think it's time we all started accepting that.

Edited February 28, 2024 by YorkshireBlue

[lucio 5,418]

  On 28/02/2024 at 15:55, YorkshireBlue said:

But by your own words if we hired some one good we wouldn't need patience lol, some.of our patterns of play have been excellent, our problems happen when teams just put 11 men behind the ball, these players have all come from terms par maybe Palmer where they have never had to deal with this before, experience comes from playing and the more they play and the more mistakes they make the better players they will become. Poch was never brought in the win trophy's and we all know it, poch has been brought in to mould these young men into a team and create a solid foundation. You can't win trophy's with a young team like this, think it's time we all started accepting that.

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So you are lowering your standards. If it was up to you we’d probably still have Potter saying “the boys gave everything” 

maybe no one is expecting major trophies right now but in a few years we will be , and poch , a serial loser won’t be the man to deliver. 

[ZAPHOD2319 4,580]

Poch keeps saying how supportive the owners are. I wonder if he was watching when they kept telling Potter how patient they were with the team development and what a great job he was doing with the players.....just before they sacked him? 

[robsblubot 3,595]

  On 28/02/2024 at 16:01, lucio said:

So you are lowering your standards. If it was up to you we’d probably still have Potter saying “the boys gave everything” 

maybe no one is expecting major trophies right now but in a few years we will be , and poch , a serial loser won’t be the man to deliver. 

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No, we aren't the ones doing that. The club is even before they signed Poch.

[lucio 5,418]

  On 28/02/2024 at 16:05, robsblubot said:

No, we aren't the ones doing that. The club is even before they signed Poch.

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Anyone who wants Poch long term is either lowering their standards for “stability” or is deluding themselves into thinking he’s gonna win something 

ofc the club have already lowered the standards , Roman wouldn’t even have considered Potter a candidate 

[YorkshireBlue 3,168]

How can I be lowering standards? I'm just a fan, I just don't sit here saying we are better than what we are because ATM we are not, and I don't put it all on the manager.

[robsblubot 3,595]

  On 28/02/2024 at 16:09, lucio said:

Anyone who wants Poch long term is either lowering their standards for “stability” or is deluding themselves into thinking he’s gonna win something 

ofc the club have already lowered the standards , Roman wouldn’t even have considered Potter a candidate 

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sure, but that's orthogonal to the roster point. You can't win anything without a good manager and a good squad.
You cannot even play decently without a good squad. I've seen good managers park the bus and get results with poor squads before (Scolari, Jose), but they play like shit and that only works in smaller cups.

You talk about silverware, and the manager does not get on the pitch and play. We need players so that the better manager can actually build something: improve short-term and perhaps get us to be competitive in a season or two.

From what we hear they are not even allowing managers to have much insight into transfers, so I'm not sure how a better manager will address the gaping holes in the roster. He'd point out obvious and will get another kid... hmm project to fill that.

Good luck winning titles with kids. That will be a first, so we will make history alright. 😅

[Vesper 29,308]

Neville’s ‘blue billion-pound bottle jobs’ line will immortalise Chelsea’s pain

https://theathletic.com/5298821/2024/02/26/Chelsea-blue-billion-bottle-jobs-pochettino/

Not all losses are created equal — and no defeat in football is worse than a banter one.

“In extra time, it’s been Klopp’s kids against the blue billion-pound bottle jobs,” said Sky Sports co-commentator Gary Neville, succinctly and indisputably establishing the dominant narrative of a surreal Carabao Cup final almost as soon as Virgil van Dijk’s glanced header had settled in the far corner of Djordje Petrovic’s net.

Liverpool had not just beaten Chelsea at Wembley (again), they had done so in a manner that validated the “mentality monsters” culture that Jurgen Klopp has cultivated — apparently throughout the age groups at Kirkby as well as the first team — over the last nine years, while mercilessly exposing the fatal flaws in the lavish investment project at Stamford Bridge funded by Todd Boehly and Clearlake Capital over the past two.

In the bowels of Wembley after the match, a despondent Mauricio Pochettino wearily assumed the task of pointing out the nuance in the narrative. “I don’t hear what he said but if you compare the age of the two groups, I think it is similar,” Chelsea’s head coach said when asked about Neville’s line. “Look, I have a good relationship with Gary. I don’t know how I can take his opinion, but I respect his opinion.

“We are a young team. Nothing to compare with Liverpool because they also finished with young players. It’s impossible to compare, and he knows that the dynamics are completely different. We were playing Liverpool and Chelsea, Chelsea and Liverpool, and I don’t think it’s fair to speak in this way.”

The youth vs experience dynamic at Wembley was not as clear-cut as Neville made out. Liverpool’s on-pitch XI had an older average age than Chelsea’s at the start of the match and at the start of extra time. Van Dijk, a 32-year-old now with 11 major trophies to his name, was the outstanding outfield player throughout and found the net with two headers worthy of winning a final, only one of which survived VAR review.

But the counter-argument becomes hard to sustain when the other team includes two 19-year-olds, Bobby Clark and James McConnell, who have each played fewer than 10 professional games and another (Jayden Danns) who was making his second senior appearance. Chelsea undoubtedly lost to several kids; the more important question is: did they bottle it?

Chelsea showed unmistakeable signs of nerves at Wembley. Axel Disasi twice ignited Liverpool transition attacks by fumbling the ball under little pressure. Malo Gusto, usually so sure-footed, controlled passes straight out of play on several occasions. Levi Colwill booted an attempted pass out to Ben Chilwell miles upfield and had to be told to calm down by Enzo Fernandez, who played sloppy passes with startling frequency.

Further forward, Conor Gallagher wrestled with an eerily similar cocktail of bad luck and poor composure in front of goal that afflicted fellow Cobham graduate Mason Mount against the same opponents in the same stadium in 2022.

Nevertheless, as the clock ticked towards the end of 90 minutes it was Chelsea who looked likelier winners, with Cole Palmer picking apart a Liverpool team whose legs appeared to have gone. It was at this point that Klopp made a decision that arguably no other elite coach would have made: to place the fate of a major trophy in the hands of unproven youth rather than go into retreat with experience and play for penalties.

His choice transformed this Carabao Cup final into the spiritual sequel of Chelsea’s bizarre 4-1 win over nine-man Tottenham Hotspur in November: a situation where convincing victory is the only acceptable outcome and anything less brings total humiliation. Pochettino had to guide his team through 20 nervy, aimless minutes that night before they overcame the fear of looking ridiculous — of being on the receiving end of a banter loss — and got on with winning the game.

Klopp’s own “it’s just who we are, mate” moment seemed to sink Chelsea into a similar mental crisis at Wembley that lasted for most of extra time, compounded by their fading energy levels. At half-time of their pitifully tentative showing in the added period all of Chilwell, Disasi and Moises Caicedo could be seen prostrate on the pitch receiving attention for cramp.

Not losing superseded winning as Chelsea’s top priority. “The team started to feel that maybe the penalties will be good for us,” said Pochettino, making an admission of weakness that is being held against him and this group of players in the acrimonious aftermath.

Finals define the clubs, players and coaches who contest them. Klopp has lost his fair share over the years but never through passivity, and that ironclad commitment to the idea of who Liverpool are carried the day at Wembley. Chelsea’s identity as expert winners of finals began to slip in the final years of Roman Abramovich’s ownership; this is now seven cup final defeats in their last eight visits to the national stadium, and six in a row.

Doubts about Pochettino’s ability to reverse that trend will only intensify. In five years at Tottenham, he built impressive teams who fell just short of winning and despite his avowed emphasis on the power of positive energy, his callow Chelsea were undone by Klopp’s peerless mastery of psychological momentum.

Liverpool at full strength are vastly better than Chelsea but they won the Carabao Cup final not through superior talent, but superior mentality, coupled with an unmistakeable sense of identity that binds the first team and academy together — in other words, things that Boehly and Clearlake’s money cannot simply buy.

“They need to feel the pain,” Pochettino said of his Chelsea players. The pain of this banter loss will be hard to shift, immortalised by Neville’s brutal words.

[Fernando 6,509]

I'm with @YorkshireBluethe manager should continue I think if we do some small buys in the summer we will improve next season.

First season was going to be rough but there's been many games where I seen what Poch can do. 

So I prefer we deal with players this summer then deal with a manager and have to wait the let me assess them nonsense.