closed Chelsea 0-1 Arsenal

[Beigl 1,387]

Didn´t understand the substitution of Gilmour. He was one of the better players in the first half. Would have rather taken off Jorginho, especially considering Saturday. That being said, I thought CHO was dreadful. He has been pretty frustrating this season. His stats are pretty good, but his overall performances are really shaky. 

Hopefully United does us a favour tonight for once...

[Jase 43,479]

18 minutes ago, Beigl said:

Didn´t understand the substitution of Gilmour. He was one of the better players in the first half. Would have rather taken off Jorginho, especially considering Saturday.

Given Tuchel's pragmatism, he was always gonna keep the more experienced player on the field. 

[Jase 43,479]

43 minutes ago, Mana said:

I doubt United would even care to be honest (beat Liverpool). They got CL secured and they want players to be fresh for the EL final.

If we had beaten Arsenal, not only West Ham are out of the race but if Liverpool drop any points tonight - top 4 would have been secured regardless of Leicester and Villa.

See how stupid it was for TT to not put our strongest possible XI?

If we did the job last night and Pool drop points, THEN we can rest players after the FA Cup final for the CL final.

Now we MUST play our strongest XI at all costs until the end of the season. Stupid.

It's Man United v Liverpool. It's Liverpool for them. Why would they not care? They would want to screw Liverpool's CL hopes.

Again, I don't get why are people complaining about the starting XI yesterday. Tuchel also made a lot of changes at the weekend but because we won, no one complained about it. Tuchel made a similar amount of changes yesterday and because we lost, people are suddenly complaining about it. Do people really think that yesterday's starting XI wasn't good enough to beat Arsenal OR at the very least, get a draw?

Tuchel already said Kante and Rudiger were rested due to pain management and being in the red zone respectively. Kepa, who didn't have much to do at all, played instead of Mendy in prep for the cup final while Werner was on the bench having started the last 5 games. So apart from those 4, yesterday's XI was pretty much our best XI. People keep complaining about the starting XI and yet, no one has bothered to ask why the players that started didn't bother to turn up and stake their claim for a starting spot in the finals.

[Jase 43,479]

8 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

It seems that way.

Not one person will care if we win both the CL and FA cup, even if we were sitting 10th.

But two losses (WBA & tonight) when we are still pretty much in control of our own destiny and everyone loses their mind and starts thinking the “safe option” of regularly finishing top 4 is better than winning a European cup by the looks of it. 

Top clubs celebrate trophy wins not finishing 4th place I thought? Obviously still think we will manage the top 4 but if we miss out and win the CL it makes no difference anyway.

As Jason said, we aren’t Arsenal. Being satisfied with 4th place is settling for a near nothing achievement now a days for a club like us. Go have a look at Arsenal over the years as an example of what making top 4 or top 6 finishes as a major achievement gets you. Or Tottenham. 

Personally, Id rather see us win the CL and FA cup than lose both and finish 4th because its a massive achievement to win any sort of major double, especially one including the CL. Plus these younger or newer players with a few trophy wins its just the beginning, the Havertz, James, Mounts, Chilwells, Gilmours, Pulisics, Werners etc if they get a taste for winning the big trophies, it only aids their development and pushes this group on even more. Everyone in the media always says Man United need to win a trophy under Ole but this group here need it. 100%. Thats why not winning the FA cup or Super Cup last season was huge. It was the same with City winning that FA Cup and then their first PL then Pellegrini came in and then Pep but they’ve never really stopped winning in the last 10 years. This group has been refreshed and need the taste for it.

I still refuse to believe we’ve sacked the season off for 2 cup finals or underestimated anyone.... That starting 11 was more than good enough to beat Arsenal and probably compete v most teams we play. He said he wasn’t happy and what not but that team was good enough to win and with the chances we had still should have won.

Why does the contract length matter? Or no CL for that matter if it comes to it? Look at what no CL did for Antonio Conte in his first season. We aren’t going to sack someone who got us from 8/9th to in the running for the top 4 as well as 2 cup finals. Not only that but showing obvious huge signs of improvement, who wants to be a title contender next season. Plus he has an option for an additional year on his deal. And there were rumours that the the club apparently want to discuss new terms with him prior to the Madrid second leg. So aye, one loss v Arsenal wont change that. 

With the exception of Mendy, Rudiger, Kante and Werner (also Christensen and Kovacic but they're injured), it was our best XI and the same XI that have started and won games before. So, the complaints about the starting XI are peculiar, especially when no one said anything about the changes Tuchel made after we won at City last Saturday. It's good enough, at the very least, to get a point against Arsenal. In the end, the defeat came down more to the application of the players. No one looked bothered at all, for one reason or another. The one thing I'll say though is that the players (and probably Tuchel as well) have put even more pressure on themselves to get things on Saturday (and they better fucking do).

[Jase 43,479]

21 minutes ago, Mana said:

Only the fans care, not Ole and most of the players. This isn’t pre-2013. Ole’s eyes are on that EL trophy, not this game that is meaningless.

It's their biggest rival for christ sake! United wouldn't want to be going into the final on the back of losses and for Solskjaer, he would also want to avoid questions about his future again by suddenly starting to lose games.

21 minutes ago, Mana said:

The difference is, when you keep rotating the players would have to keep readjusting. And it’s not as if most of our players are class.  Jorginho, while I’m pissed off that he’s still here, it was instinct of him to pass it back to the goal then because probably Mendy’s usual positioning. He probably forgot Kepa was in goal and he may be positioned elsewhere hence that calamity.

Tuchel has rotated in every game since he's been here and we have won a lot of them. So again, why the sudden complaints yesterday? Tuchel has played the same XI in consecutive games only once and it's near impossible to play the same XI in every game during this pandemic season.

You're really giving Jorginho an out there. We want to play out from the back and any keeper in this system would have made himself available for the pass the way Kepa did. Let's not also forget how hard Jorginho hit the pass backward considering how close he was to goal, which left Kepa no chance but to just quickly scramble back and try to prevent a comedy own goal.

Jorginho was at fault for the goal but on the bigger picture, if there was a change that screwed us up when it comes to passing out from the back, it's the inclusion of Zouma. Tuchel had no choice but to play him considering Christensen is injured and Rudiger is in the red zone but Zouma's passing ability is so bad. 

21 minutes ago, Mana said:

Kepa really should have played in the final to be honest. That’s his reward for getting us there. Werner should have played.

This Arsenal game should have been treated as a “PL” final. If we get top 4 but lose the FA Cup, it’s not that bad. What’s BAD is getting the FA Cup at the expense of top 4.

If Werner had started and got injured, then what?

Yes, yesterday's stupid loss is an annoying setback but the Top 4 is still in our hands.

[Jase 43,479]

8 minutes ago, Mana said:

Again you are thinking this is pre-2013. You are dreaming if you think United are going to throw everything at Liverpool to stop them getting CL (and even if United won, doesn't guarantee it)...when they have a bigger picture to look at. They will NOT want Bruno, Pogba and others injured or tired tonight. They got relegated Fulham and nothing to play for Wolves as their final two games to find their wins.

If that's the case, then why did Solskjaer even bother to bring on Fernandes, Cavani and Rashford as subs the other day against Leicester?

United have no game this weekend, meaning they have a rare week off until their final two league games next midweek and if there's a time for them to rest players, it's against Fulham and Wolves, especially when the Europa League final is just 3 days after the final league game.

10 minutes ago, Mana said:

True but if there is one more PL game to take very seriously, it was yesterday. Now the end result? Must play your strongest XI until the CL final. West Ham and Liverpool will do whatever they can to win their final games because that's all they have.

Is that necessarily a bad thing? The injury risk aside, it's probably a good thing that we still have something to play for in the league just so the players will maintain that competitive and physical edge going into the Champions League final. I remember after we won the league in 2017, we just ghosted through the last game against Sunderland and then played like crap against Arsenal the following week in the FA Cup final.

15 minutes ago, Mana said:

...and we gone on to win yesterday?

And yesterday's XI wasn't good enough to beat Arsenal or get even a draw?

15 minutes ago, Mana said:

As I said I'd rather secure top 4 then winning the FA Cup.

It's ironic that you hate Arsenal but are speaking like an Arsenal fan there.

16 minutes ago, Mana said:

Top 4 is still in our hands technically yes, but it requires us to WIN all the remaining games including Leicester.

Is it bad that we have our fate in our own hands? 

[Johnnyeye 7,441]

this loss only makes things nervy for us thats for sure

[Johnnyeye 7,441]

38 minutes ago, Mana said:

I am not forgiving Jorginho, he's an experienced player he should know fecking better. He has gone through hundreds of games being under pressure and he is still making mistakes like this. I can't believe I'm saying this, but Kepa shouldn't be one of the top two to be sold this summer. Jorginho has earned the spot there.

what the hell was Jorginho thinking, what a stupid brain fart.

[Johnnyeye 7,441]

the next 2 games against Leicester will be massive, even more important now because we lost to Arsenal. It’s never easy being a Chelsea fan, fml

[Johnnyeye 7,441]

2 hours ago, Mana said:

I doubt United would even care to be honest (beat Liverpool). They got CL secured and they want players to be fresh for the EL final.

If we had beaten Arsenal, not only West Ham are out of the race but if Liverpool drop any points tonight - top 4 would have been secured regardless of Leicester and Villa.

See how stupid it was for TT to not put our strongest possible XI?

If we did the job last night and Pool drop points, THEN we can rest players after the FA Cup final for the CL final.

Now we MUST play our strongest XI at all costs until the end of the season. Stupid.

no excuses here, we should have started our strongest 11 against Arse, this is on Tuchel.

[Vesper 28,861]

Fucking still raging

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, Mana said:

Because 2nd place wasn't secured then, it was a small outside chance that we could have catched them and nicked it on the final day. Not anymore, it's impossible now for us or Leicester.

lol Do you really think they care about 2nd place? It's just extra money and nothing else as long as they finish in the Top 4.

But if you really want to talk about 2nd place, then Leicester can still catch them considering they are only 4 points behind United. 

1 hour ago, Mana said:

It's a bad thing because we are now approaching last chance saloon. Anymore dropped points, and if Pool and WH win all their games it's out of our hands. It's got to that point now.

 

1 hour ago, Mana said:

No, I'm speaking with logic here. The FA Cup gives us Europa League qualification, not CL qualification.

 

1 hour ago, Mana said:

Again, like I said above. It's in our own hands, but one more slip - done.

Seems like you have forgotten about the insurance policy of winning the Champions League.

1 hour ago, Mana said:

Certainly good enough for a draw, a win not sure. And we shouldn't go in to a "PL" final with a squad just good enough for a point.

At this point, I don't know if people just want to moan for the sake of moaning or are just being selective. The players that started yesterday were one of the reasons why we were able to drag ourselves back into the Top 4 from mid-table and get the club into 2 major cup finals. Those players have contributed to big wins over bigger or better teams than Arsenal and now people are saying they aren't good enough to beat Arsenal? 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

12 hours ago, DDA said:

The lack of VAR and then the lack of mentioning of the lack of VAR by everyone involved in tonight's coverage seems very iffy to me. There were 3 clear cut moments In the game that deserved an extensive VAR review.. 2 penalty claims and the hand ball.

Nothing said. 

Weird.

Mate this league has been corrupt for years and years, its just that now VAR has made it more obvious. TT must mention the BS, he must or he will suffer here and there.

So no VAR check at all and no mention of them either.....yeah we are hated and the league is bent, nothing new. Until we as a club open our mouths we will keep suffering.

[milka 3,347]

2012 is really here

 

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by milka

[NikkiCFC 7,955]

And we lost in round 36th at home also. Against Newcastle. 

[chippy 342]

11 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

It seems that way.

Not one person will care if we win both the CL and FA cup, even if we were sitting 10th.

But two losses (WBA & tonight) when we are still pretty much in control of our own destiny and everyone loses their mind and starts thinking the “safe option” of regularly finishing top 4 is better than winning a European cup by the looks of it. 

Top clubs celebrate trophy wins not finishing 4th place I thought? Obviously still think we will manage the top 4 but if we miss out and win the CL it makes no difference anyway.

As Jason said, we aren’t Arsenal. Being satisfied with 4th place is settling for a near nothing achievement now a days for a club like us. Go have a look at Arsenal over the years as an example of what making top 4 or top 6 finishes as a major achievement gets you. Or Tottenham. 

Personally, Id rather see us win the CL and FA cup than lose both and finish 4th because its a massive achievement to win any sort of major double, especially one including the CL. Plus these younger or newer players with a few trophy wins its just the beginning, the Havertz, James, Mounts, Chilwells, Gilmours, Pulisics, Werners etc if they get a taste for winning the big trophies, it only aids their development and pushes this group on even more. Everyone in the media always says Man United need to win a trophy under Ole but this group here need it. 100%. Thats why not winning the FA cup or Super Cup last season was huge. It was the same with City winning that FA Cup and then their first PL then Pellegrini came in and then Pep but they’ve never really stopped winning in the last 10 years. This group has been refreshed and need the taste for it.

I still refuse to believe we’ve sacked the season off for 2 cup finals or underestimated anyone.... That starting 11 was more than good enough to beat Arsenal and probably compete v most teams we play. He said he wasn’t happy and what not but that team was good enough to win and with the chances we had still should have won.

Why does the contract length matter? Or no CL for that matter if it comes to it? Look at what no CL did for Antonio Conte in his first season. We aren’t going to sack someone who got us from 8/9th to in the running for the top 4 as well as 2 cup finals. Not only that but showing obvious huge signs of improvement, who wants to be a title contender next season. Plus he has an option for an additional year on his deal. And there were rumours that the the club apparently want to discuss new terms with him prior to the Madrid second leg. So aye, one loss v Arsenal wont change that. 

No, I certainly don't want us to become another Arsenal!

If we win the CL, I couldn't give a rats ass where we finish in the league. But, seeing that the final comes after the league has finishef, we cant afford to go into that game against a full strength City,  knowing we have to win it to get CL football.

After Leicester beating Utd, we should have gone all out to get top four by playing our strongest possible team and play the weakened side in the FA Cup Final. We now find ourselves likely having to play our strongest sides against both Leicester and Villa, while City have the luxuary of being able to rest players.

TT cocked up bigtime last night, but at least he's admitted he made a mistake with selection.

 

 

[milka 3,347]

This is very strange season to us , no matter how it ends .

We beat City , Liverpool and Tottenham away but WBA scores 8 goals against us ,  Arsenal beat us   twice .

Before 3 month with Lampard  this team was 8 or 9   but now we can finish with double or with nothing of course  .

Strange season for sure .

Edited May 13, 2021 by milka

[Tomo 21,733]

45 minutes ago, chippy said:

After Leicester beating Utd, we should have gone all out to get top four by playing our strongest possible team and play the weakened side in the FA Cup Final. 

And this type of rewarding failure is exactly why the much maligned super league came about.

46 minutes ago, chippy said:

After Leicester beating Utd, we should have gone all out to get top four by playing our strongest possible team and play the weakened side in the FA Cup Final. We now find ourselves likely having to play our strongest sides against both Leicester and Villa, while City have the luxuary of being able to rest players.

I really hope they do rest their star players between now and the final, a City team lacking match practice suits us perfectly.

Unfortunately however Pep won't be that stupid.