Super Frank Thread

[Jase 43,479]

Lampard future will depend on making Havertz and Werner a success

https://theathletic.com/2289444/2020/12/29/framk-lampard-timo-werner-kai-havertz-chelsea/

In a game Frank Lampard needed to win to alleviate the growing pressure at Chelsea, he took the significant step of leaving the club’s biggest two summer signings out of the first XI. Was it a show of strength or asking for trouble?

Lampard has had a few of his managerial attributes questioned in some quarters of late following a run of three defeats in four games this month, but no one can doubt his bravery against Aston Villa.

It was a big call to name Germany internationals Timo Werner and Kai Havertz on the substitutes bench even if there were mitigating and understandable circumstances.

Werner, who had started every Premier League game up to this point, has been looking tired and short of confidence following a run of 10 matches without a goal. Meanwhile, Havertz, who has not started the last three league matches, has suffered from the after effects of contracting COVID as well as struggling to adapt to the Premier League.

Lampard could also rightly argue that on form, neither man is playing well enough to merit a place in his side. They were still given a chance to change the game late on too as they were brought on with 18 minutes to go, but Aston Villa held on to a 1-1 draw fairly comfortably.

The question is what does Roman Abramovich think? When the owner sanctioned the club spending more than £100 million on their signatures in the last window, one can assume the multi-billionaire did not expect they would be watching important fixtures from the sidelines.

This is a different scenario to what has taken place with Kepa Arrizabalaga. Lampard has already made a strong call, which was backed by the powers-that-be, to replace the world’s most expensive goalkeeper with a new arrival in Edouard Mendy.

Kepa’s deteriorating displays and the fact he was not Lampard’s signing — the Spaniard was brought in when Maurizio Sarri was at the helm — meant allowances could be made. But Havertz and Werner moved to Chelsea on Lampard’s watch and with his blessing.

Managers will always be judged by Abramovich on results first, but history shows how they have been held to account for not making expensive marquee signings work too.

For example, the acquisition of Andriy Shevchenko from AC Milan for £30.8 million in 2006, led to tension behind the scenes as Jose Mourinho failed to get the best out of the Ukrainian during the final 13 months of his first spell at Stamford Bridge.

Similarly, the declining fortunes of Fernando Torres, who joined from Liverpool for a club record £50 million in January 2011, was a contributory factor in the downfall of Chelsea coaches Carlo Ancelotti and Roberto di Matteo.

The latter took the courageous step of leaving Torres out of a must-not-lose Champions League group game at Juventus and selected Eden Hazard as a false No 9 instead. Chelsea lost 3-0, failed to qualify for the last 16 for the first time in their history and the Italian was sacked the next morning.

Lampard should still have a lot of credit in the bank for what he achieved last season. Chelsea got into the top four with a squad that was not his own. The former England international was not able to make transfers due to a one-window ban and took the notable step of giving academy youngsters their senior debuts, using a handful on a regular basis.

However, the hierarchy could turnaround and wonder why after investing more than £200 million in new signings — Mendy, Hakim Ziyech, Ben Chilwell and Thiago Silva (free agent) also joined in the last window — the club have amassed three points fewer than at the same stage last year (2019-20 16 games — 29 points; 2020-21 16 games — 26 points).

It should not be forgotten that Chelsea were in a very good state just three weeks ago. They had gone 17 games unbeaten in all competitions, finished top of their Champions League group and an impressive 3-1 victory over Leeds briefly took them to the top of the Premier League. The fixture list is also more intense due to the impact COVID had on the schedule and Chelsea had no pre-season to work on systems and tactics with the new personnel.

But Lampard knows from his 13 years as a Chelsea player, of which 11 were under Abramovich, that being in charge of the west London club can be one of the harshest environments to work in. Patience is in short supply.

Chelsea have now picked up just four points from their last five games. Their total of 26 after 16 matches is the second worst of the Abramovich era, with only Mourinho’s dramatic fall from grace in 2015-16 ranking lower.

The pressure is starting to show. Lampard has looked a nervous and tense figure during games of late. One source has told The Athletic that ‘he lost it’ while delivering the half-time team talk at Arsenal on December 26.

To be fair, given the way Chelsea had played to find themselves 2-0 down, he had every right. Another insider remarked how certain individuals were rebuked in front of the group for their performance in the opening 45 minutes at the Emirates Stadium. Unfortunately the strong words did not pay off as the visitors went on to lose 3-1.

Lampard will be confident that he can turn this around. It was not that long ago Chelsea were being talked about as possible title contenders and the struggle for consistency is being shared throughout the division, which again perhaps highlights how this is an extraordinary campaign where twists and turns are the norm.

But the wins needs to come soon to silence the inevitable speculation, ideally with Havertz and Werner playing a major role on the pitch.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Jason said:

Lampard future will depend on making Havertz and Werner a success

https://theathletic.com/2289444/2020/12/29/framk-lampard-timo-werner-kai-havertz-chelsea/

In a game Frank Lampard needed to win to alleviate the growing pressure at Chelsea, he took the significant step of leaving the club’s biggest two summer signings out of the first XI. Was it a show of strength or asking for trouble?

Lampard has had a few of his managerial attributes questioned in some quarters of late following a run of three defeats in four games this month, but no one can doubt his bravery against Aston Villa.

It was a big call to name Germany internationals Timo Werner and Kai Havertz on the substitutes bench even if there were mitigating and understandable circumstances.

Werner, who had started every Premier League game up to this point, has been looking tired and short of confidence following a run of 10 matches without a goal. Meanwhile, Havertz, who has not started the last three league matches, has suffered from the after effects of contracting COVID as well as struggling to adapt to the Premier League.

Lampard could also rightly argue that on form, neither man is playing well enough to merit a place in his side. They were still given a chance to change the game late on too as they were brought on with 18 minutes to go, but Aston Villa held on to a 1-1 draw fairly comfortably.

The question is what does Roman Abramovich think? When the owner sanctioned the club spending more than £100 million on their signatures in the last window, one can assume the multi-billionaire did not expect they would be watching important fixtures from the sidelines.

This is a different scenario to what has taken place with Kepa Arrizabalaga. Lampard has already made a strong call, which was backed by the powers-that-be, to replace the world’s most expensive goalkeeper with a new arrival in Edouard Mendy.

Kepa’s deteriorating displays and the fact he was not Lampard’s signing — the Spaniard was brought in when Maurizio Sarri was at the helm — meant allowances could be made. But Havertz and Werner moved to Chelsea on Lampard’s watch and with his blessing.

Managers will always be judged by Abramovich on results first, but history shows how they have been held to account for not making expensive marquee signings work too.

For example, the acquisition of Andriy Shevchenko from AC Milan for £30.8 million in 2006, led to tension behind the scenes as Jose Mourinho failed to get the best out of the Ukrainian during the final 13 months of his first spell at Stamford Bridge.

Similarly, the declining fortunes of Fernando Torres, who joined from Liverpool for a club record £50 million in January 2011, was a contributory factor in the downfall of Chelsea coaches Carlo Ancelotti and Roberto di Matteo.

The latter took the courageous step of leaving Torres out of a must-not-lose Champions League group game at Juventus and selected Eden Hazard as a false No 9 instead. Chelsea lost 3-0, failed to qualify for the last 16 for the first time in their history and the Italian was sacked the next morning.

Lampard should still have a lot of credit in the bank for what he achieved last season. Chelsea got into the top four with a squad that was not his own. The former England international was not able to make transfers due to a one-window ban and took the notable step of giving academy youngsters their senior debuts, using a handful on a regular basis.

However, the hierarchy could turnaround and wonder why after investing more than £200 million in new signings — Mendy, Hakim Ziyech, Ben Chilwell and Thiago Silva (free agent) also joined in the last window — the club have amassed three points fewer than at the same stage last year (2019-20 16 games — 29 points; 2020-21 16 games — 26 points).

It should not be forgotten that Chelsea were in a very good state just three weeks ago. They had gone 17 games unbeaten in all competitions, finished top of their Champions League group and an impressive 3-1 victory over Leeds briefly took them to the top of the Premier League. The fixture list is also more intense due to the impact COVID had on the schedule and Chelsea had no pre-season to work on systems and tactics with the new personnel.

But Lampard knows from his 13 years as a Chelsea player, of which 11 were under Abramovich, that being in charge of the west London club can be one of the harshest environments to work in. Patience is in short supply.

Chelsea have now picked up just four points from their last five games. Their total of 26 after 16 matches is the second worst of the Abramovich era, with only Mourinho’s dramatic fall from grace in 2015-16 ranking lower.

The pressure is starting to show. Lampard has looked a nervous and tense figure during games of late. One source has told The Athletic that ‘he lost it’ while delivering the half-time team talk at Arsenal on December 26.

To be fair, given the way Chelsea had played to find themselves 2-0 down, he had every right. Another insider remarked how certain individuals were rebuked in front of the group for their performance in the opening 45 minutes at the Emirates Stadium. Unfortunately the strong words did not pay off as the visitors went on to lose 3-1.

Lampard will be confident that he can turn this around. It was not that long ago Chelsea were being talked about as possible title contenders and the struggle for consistency is being shared throughout the division, which again perhaps highlights how this is an extraordinary campaign where twists and turns are the norm.

But the wins needs to come soon to silence the inevitable speculation, ideally with Havertz and Werner playing a major role on the pitch.

See how many times Simon Johnson tried to include excuses for Lampard here and there in the piece...

That's also another puff piece by The Athletic. Don't even explore why Lampard seems hell bent on playing Werner like a winger, when he did his best work as a second striker at Leipzig, and what's the plan for Havertz, who despite his potential, no one seems to know what really is his best position. 

[Strike 7,212]

20 minutes ago, Jason said:

See how many times Simon Johnson tried to include excuses for Lampard here and there in the piece...

That's also another puff piece by The Athletic. Don't even explore why Lampard seems hell bent on playing Werner like a winger, when he did his best work as a second striker at Leipzig, and what's the plan for Havertz, who despite his potential, no one seems to know what really is his best position. 

Helps with access to the club. Athletic are not known for biting critique but more known for digging out details that otherwise wouldn't be explored.

I feel the Guardian's weekly pod has steadfastly criticised Lampard and even during the winning run, one expert pointed out the quality of teams Chelsea have beaten and said they'd wait till the team plays better sides.

[Jase 43,479]

25 minutes ago, Strike said:

Helps with access to the club. Athletic are not known for biting critique but more known for digging out details that otherwise wouldn't be explored.

I feel the Guardian's weekly pod has steadfastly criticised Lampard and even during the winning run, one expert pointed out the quality of teams Chelsea have beaten and said they'd wait till the team plays better sides.

What does it have to do with getting access to the club when they get info from inside source for their articles? It's not like they such info directly from the PR person. 

It's disappointing that we are getting puff pieces like that when The Athletic can explore more given they have contacts, inside sources and all that. Even our debates on the forum here have more substance than some of their pieces!

[Jase 43,479]

 

[Azul 1,615]

I just have a feeling that it's going to take a long time before he's sacked which is extremely annoying.

[Special Juan 27,419]

It won't, the board won't allow results and positions in the table to go south too much before they act. They have given FL  a war chest in the summer, so far they are entitled to ask what the actual fuck is going on.

Especially when over 100M of that was on the bench yesterday.

[Strike 7,212]

30 minutes ago, Azul said:

I just have a feeling that it's going to take a long time before he's sacked which is extremely annoying.

I think he will get the season unless the season goes into a tailspin

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

I would only sack him when a good enough coach is available. Note 'good enough' doesn't mean 'the right one'. If top 4 looks in danger in another month or so its time to look for a new coach. The problem is there's few standout options.

Poch is the only one jumping out at me. I dont rate Jody Morris but would like Anthony Barry to stay. Maybe in the Steve Holland role

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[Jase 43,479]

Lampard is currently at 7/2 to be sacked, according to the bookies, but there's been nothing from the media to suggest his job is really on the line or that he is on the brink. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

I just saw his post match interview, what is he thinking? Reporter asks " so was this the response you wanted after the Ars game " Lamps says I couldnt ask for more from my players. WTF are you mental Lamps? Has your standard fallen so much? Sorry thats not good enough by half.

[bigbluewillie 1,858]

On 28/12/2020 at 11:11 AM, DDA said:

And contrary to most on here who reject the idea of Simione, I think he would be great to have here. His passion and drive would ensure we never see performances like the one we had to endure the other day.

 

Appoint him and i'll leave like a shot out of a gun, after 60 odd years of supporting us/them.

I'll fuck off to my Souff London club Millwall

There's no way would i suffer him and his 6-4-0 formation

If there's one manager not suited to Chelsea then it's Simione.

[killer1257 3,282]

I just saw his post match interview, what is he thinking? Reporter asks " so was this the response you wanted after the Ars game " Lamps says I couldnt ask for more from my players? WTF are you mental Lamps? Has your standard fallen so much? Sorry thats not good enough by half.

To be fair, he slaughtered our players 2 days ago and after zero training, we were definitely better than against Arsenal, even though it was not much better. If he started to slaughter our players again, he would lose the dressing room. He knows most of his players are tired and low on confidence. Does not need to make it worse

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[Atomiswave 6,072]

14 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

To be fair, he slaughtered our players 2 days ago and after zero training, we were definitely better than against Arsenal, even though it was not much better. If he started to slaughter our players again, he would lose the dressing room. He knows most of his players are tired and low on confidence. Does not need to make it worse

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Just come out and say it like it is, sure we were a bit better but considering how trashy we were vs Ars then its not much consolation. It was not the response required at all. Every team are tired Killer, yet they put in the shift.

[killer1257 3,282]

Just come out and say it like it is, sure we were a bit better but considering how trashy we were vs Ars then its not much consolation. It was not the response required at all. Every team are tired Killer, yet they put in the shift.

There is a difference because we played on saturday and then on monday. This is insane and this means zero time for real preparation.

And I also think Lampard needs the dressing room behind him. Slaughtering everyone like Mourinho does will only give a toxic environment to the team. Lampard knows that he can't afford to lose the dressing room. This was also a mixed team. AC, Toni, CHO, Giroud and Azpi are non starters for instance.

It was not the response we needed, but Lampard destroying the players in front of the media again against an in form Villa is not the way to go bro

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[MoroccanBlue 5,291]

Given that City and Morecambe will be likely suspended, I'd be telling Lampard that against Fulham, Leicester, Wolves, and Burnley, his points total should be at the minimum 10. Failure to get 10 points, I'd sack him. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,291]

1 minute ago, Mana said:

That's not going to happen.

He's has zero excuses then. Everyone will be fit. 

[Jase 43,479]

21 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Given that City and Morecambe will be likely suspended, I'd be telling Lampard that against Fulham, Leicester, Wolves, and Burnley, his points total should be at the minimum 10. Failure to get 10 points, I'd sack him. 

If we are going to sack Lampard, now might be the perfect to do it because if those 2 games get postponed, then whoever comes in will have 17 days (IIRC) to work with the players until our trip to Fulham. Otherwise, he won't have many days at all to work with the players.