Super Frank Thread

[Tomo 21,733]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Did nothing to help stem the flow of the game and then blamed the players after that. Classic Lampard.

That's what I said yesterday that Mourinho may have a point about him here...

Yeah but we all know Mourinho has an ulterior motive for saying such, he's probably still fuming Lampard got offered this job when he was available and Lampard's record against Mou since has probably made him even more bitter.

Compare the way Mou talks about Lampard and Chelsea now compare it to how Ancelotti or heck even Conte does and the difference is night and day.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Tomo said:

Yeah but we all know Mourinho has an ulterior motive for saying such, he's probably still fuming Lampard got offered this job when he was available.

Compare the way Mou talks about Lampard and Chelsea now compare it to how Ancelotti or heck even Conte does and the difference is night and day.

Oh god, are you really still going on about that? 

[Tomo 21,733]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

Oh god, are you really still going on about that? 

Hardly wrong though, am I?

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Tomo said:

Hardly wrong though, am I?

That's just your (conspiracy) theory. If isn't it, then prove it. 

[Tomo 21,733]

Just now, Jason said:

That's just your (conspiracy) theory. If isn't it, then prove it. 

Okay then, so why do you think Mourinho has suddenly become so bitter about Lampard but Ancelotti has still managed to maintain a strong relationship with him?

[Jase 43,479]

14 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Okay then, so why do you think Mourinho has suddenly become so bitter about Lampard but Ancelotti has still managed to maintain a strong relationship with him?

Isn't it in Mourinho's nature to just be hostile (or close to one) against his direct rivals? The only one he didn't that to over the years was Alex Ferguson and that's probably because he knew Ferguson could play the same game too. He didn't dare to poke the bear, so to speak.

Another factor that may have contributed to Mourinho's bitterness (if you really want to call it that) towards Lampard is that Mourinho wasn't happy at all when he left us and then joined Man City on loan. One of the recent The Athletic's articles mentioned how Mourinho got scared of Lampard potentially leading City to the title after our 5-2 loss at Spurs in 2014/15 that he decided to park the bus for the rest of the season and crawl our way to the title. 

As for Ancelotti, it's not his nature to be picking fights with people, is it? Compared to someone like Mourinho, Ancelotti is the more universally liked figure. 

[Jase 43,479]

Havertz and Werner might need Chelsea formation change to bring best out them

https://theathletic.com/2264487/2020/12/16/werner-havertz-formation-chelsea/?source=emp_shared_article

This season, it seems, is not going to be kind to the teams with designs to be considered Premier League contenders.

Earlier this month, when they swept aside Leeds United at Stamford Bridge with a display of high-tempo ruthlessness, Chelsea had the look of a side who had found themselves heading into the festive fixture crunch in good shape. Eleven days and back-to-back defeats against Everton and Wolves later, it’s once again reasonable to question the on-pitch identity they had built with such style.

Frank Lampard was in no mood for such introspection in the immediate aftermath at Molineux. For him, this was simply a case of poor game management. “The threat from Wolves is clearly the counter-attack and it is a major threat from what they have got,” he said. “It is the main one because they have speed and quality in forward areas. The players knew it before the game, the players knew it in (the) game but we allowed some counter-attacks. If you are going to allow a team to play to their strengths then you may lose.”

Nothing he said left the impression there could be a departure from the 4-3-3 system that has underpinned Chelsea’s rise in recent weeks, even as Everton and then Wolves’ defensive success left many querying whether the formation is viable with the squad’s wing depth so depleted. The bigger headache for Lampard, however, will probably come when he ponders whether or not the tactical framework he has chosen can maximise either of his two marquee summer signings.

Timo Werner — operating from the right and later from the left of the front three at Molineux — had three shot attempts against Wolves, none on target and none particularly memorable. He has now failed to score in his last eight Chelsea appearances across all competitions and while that time span includes some freakish misses, three of his lowest expected goals (xG) ratings of the Premier League season have come in his last four games. Wolves largely kept him out wide, where his sloppy passing often made him more of a hindrance than a help.

Werner’s touch map vs Wolves

Kai Havertz, meanwhile, was replaced by Mateo Kovacic in the 71st minute after producing his most anonymous performance of the season. Deployed as a No 8 on the right of the midfield three, he touched the ball fewer times (47) than any outfield Chelsea starter other than Werner and Olivier Giroud, had no shots and played no key passes. The vast majority of the passes he completed were safe options, either sideways or backwards, offering little to the team’s more progressive passages of play.

When it comes to Havertz there is no shortage of reasonable mitigation. He contracted COVID-19 in November and was bed-ridden with significant symptoms for more than a week. As well as depriving him of training time, the illness also further slowed an already tricky adaptation process to a new style of football with a new team in a new league. Having played for spells as a No 8, a No 10, a winger and a false nine in four years at Bayer Leverkusen, he has been deployed in all four positions in his first four months at Chelsea. He is also 21.

Havertz revealed during his unveiling press conference in September that he considers himself primarily as a No 10. Werner, meanwhile, reached a new level of attacking threat at RB Leipzig last season when coach Julian Nagelsmann slotted him into a bespoke tactical role, somewhere in between an on-the-shoulder striker and a left winger, with either Yussuf Poulsen or Patrick Schick acting as the muscular attacking focal point.

The one thing that Havertz and Werner’s ideal roles have in common is that neither exist in Lampard’s 4-3-3.

It won’t always matter. As recent weeks have shown, Werner is more than capable of carrying a constant threat on the left of a front three, provided that he is allowed to do most of his running into the box without the ball rather than with it. While he can be a devastating ball-carrier in transition situations — as Newcastle and Leeds both found out to their cost — he lacks the skill of an elite winger to consistently dribble past his marker, and his touch is too inconsistent to be heavily involved in possession play.

On his better days, Havertz has also shown signs of growing into the No 8 role, finding pockets of space to receive the ball on the half-turn, moving it on intelligently and arriving late in the box to connect with crosses. The slick sequence of play which led to Giroud’s equaliser against Leeds exhibited all of these qualities.

Hakim Ziyech’s return from a hamstring injury will help both. The man Ajax fans dubbed “The Wizard of Amsterdam” has been exactly as advertised so far in England, establishing himself as the creative hub of this Chelsea team from the moment he came into the starting XI. Werner can connect with his devilish in-swinging crosses as Quincy Promes once did, and the defensive attention the Morocco international attracts can free up Havertz to express himself fully.

But until then, Lampard might need to lean on the tactical flexibility he showcased at key moments of last season. The 4-3-3 is only as effective as the balance of personnel within it; Chelsea’s dearth of fit wingers right now might have made a return to 3-4-2-1 more logical against Wolves. Another option — one that requires less disruption to the team’s defensive and midfield balance — would be a 4-4-2 diamond, with Havertz operating at the tip and Werner up front alongside either Giroud or Abraham:

That particular tactical scenario would penalise Christian Pulisic, Chelsea’s most dazzling attacker for long stretches of last season and a man Lampard really needs to find momentum for after a frustrating stretch of hamstring trouble. But any option the manager chooses will carry a significant selection cost in a squad blessed with as diverse an array of attacking talent as this one.

Chelsea’s on-pitch identity will probably continue to shift with the tides of form and fitness, along with the unpredictable storms in this most volatile of seasons. Lampard will need Werner and Havertz to help him chart a course through it all.

[Johnnyeye 7,440]

we've been brought down to earth with these last results, i admit i got a liitle excited too soon, but the reality is, we are far from being title contenders. Lamps still has a lot to learn

[Tomo 21,733]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

Isn't it in Mourinho's nature to just be hostile (or close to one) against his direct rivals? The only one he didn't that to over the years was Alex Ferguson and that's probably because he knew Ferguson could play the same game too. He didn't dare to poke the bear, so to speak.

Another factor that may have contributed to Mourinho's bitterness (if you really want to call it that) towards Lampard is that Mourinho wasn't happy at all when he left us and then joined Man City on loan. One of the recent The Athletic's articles mentioned how Mourinho got scared of Lampard potentially leading City to the title after our 5-2 loss at Spurs in 2014/15 that he decided to park the bus for the rest of the season and crawl our way to the title. 

Yeah but if he made an exception for Ferguson (was that really down to fear of being played at his own game or more the fact that he usually beat him? As Rafa pointed out once he had a pretty strong relationship with Mou himself until THAT semi final, remember them both looking cosy in the Anfield tunnel?) shouldn't the same be made for a player who delivered for him one of his most successful spells as a manager? (The spell that cemented his status as a world class manager no less). I mean given how he demanded blanket respect from us because of the three titles it's beyond hypocritical of him to turn on Frank.

[Azul 1,615]

Oh. Rational like we just fucking went on a 17 match unbeaten run? Those rationals can hardly stand up against getting him sacked, right? 
Also, the funny part of the post was if he wins the next 5, you would still not support him. Funny, calling yourself a "fan". Such "fans" need to fuck off and find a new team. How is that for voicing an opinion

Who did we beat in the 17 match unbeaten run? We only like to bully sides like Burnley/Newcastle/Sheffield/Leeds.

This team have the same flaws like last season, and it's starting to show again. We only won 6 games of 13 in the Premier League and we spend 250m! I will not support him even if he goes on to win the next 5 games, why? It's because it papers over the cracks, similar to United and Ole. He loses games, then manages to save his job by winning a couple when you know he is not the right man.

You're another idiotic fan pretending to be morally just while supporting an inexperienced manager. I support the club and I will never put someone above it. I know you're going to be one of the first ones to scream Lampard out when we lose a couple of games in the future, because that's what hypocrites like you do.

[Fernando 6,455]

Still not worried. I didn't expect us to challenge for tittle this season. 

But what I'm seeing is what I thought we would get, burn out. Some players have been overplayed like Werner and Mount. 

Also Kai after Coravirus has not been up to standard. 

How a nice winter break would work wonder for us, but we will have to pick up. Rotation is needed in the coming weeks. 

That being said I still see us picking up form and finishing comfortably in top 4. 

[Jase 43,479]

35 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Yeah but if he made an exception for Ferguson (was that really down to fear of being played at his own game or more the fact that he usually beat him? As Rafa pointed out once he had a pretty strong relationship with Mou himself until THAT semi final, remember them both looking cosy in the Anfield tunnel?) shouldn't the same be made for a player who delivered for him one of his most successful spells as a manager? (The spell that cemented his status as a world class manager no less). I mean given how he demanded blanket respect from us because of the three titles it's beyond hypocritical of him to turn on Frank.

It's Mourinho. Are you really surprised by his actions after all these year? He'll do anything to pursue his own agenda. 

[Alabama 1,992]

7 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Still not worried. I didn't expect us to challenge for tittle this season. 

But what I'm seeing is what I thought we would get, burn out. Some players have been overplayed like Werner and Mount. 

Also Kai after Coravirus has not been up to standard. 

How a nice winter break would work wonder for us, but we will have to pick up. Rotation is needed in the coming weeks. 

That being said I still see us picking up form and finishing comfortably in top 4. 

Even at that we will challenge or be closer to the very top...not Frank fault Jorginho doesnt fit our style of play...Unlucky due to injuries as well hoping Pulisic Werner and Ziyech becomes our starting front 3 now on and in the long term....

[Puliiszola 519]

37 minutes ago, Azul said:

Who did we beat in the 17 match unbeaten run? We only like to bully sides like Burnley/Newcastle/Sheffield/Leeds.

This team have the same flaws like last season, and it's starting to show again. We only won 6 games of 13 in the Premier League and we spend 250m! I will not support him even if he goes on to win the next 5 games, why? It's because it papers over the cracks, similar to United and Ole. He loses games, then manages to save his job by winning a couple when you know he is not the right man.

You're another idiotic fan pretending to be morally just while supporting an inexperienced manager. I support the club and I will never put someone above it. I know you're going to be one of the first ones to scream Lampard out when we lose a couple of games in the future, because that's what hypocrites like you do.

Liverpool has 7 wins and Spurs have 7 wins. Which is 1 win more than us. The PL as a league has become such a powerful league where there are no free wins. Understand that. 

In the 17 game unbeaten run, how many did we win. Majority. 

And how do we have the same problems as last season. Last season we conceded 69 goals in 38 games, this season we have conceded 14 goals in 13 games. Thats the same to you? 

Oh wait, you are one of the entitled, plastic, short term social media "fans" looking for instant gratification. News FLASH: Life does not work that ways. Klopp took 2.5 years to make liverpool a force. FL so far has got 1.25 and the improvements are there for anyone and their dog to see if they actually have a brain.

Also, go back and read any and all of my comments and posts. I am and till the end of this season WILL be all for giving FL time to work. Unlike plastic fans like yourself, I dont hide under a rock when my team is winning, neither do i go into a rant mode at the first signs of trouble. 

Cant wait for you to back into hiding once we beat WHU on the weekend. 

Lastly, 250m spent means NOTHING. None of the players bar ziyech are in the PRIME of their careers. None of the players bar chilwell played in the PL before. This is not FIFA where you just select the best players with best ratings and things click into motion. Some players take time to adapt, some turn out to to busts while the most unexpected players become an integral part of the team. Also, the 250m spent again means nothing as majority of it was offset by hazard, morata etc sales. We also need to replace those players. So stop bullshitting. 

[killer1257 3,282]

Even at that we will challenge or be closer to the very top...not Frank fault Jorginho doesnt fit our style of play...Unlucky due to injuries as well hoping Pulisic Werner and Ziyech becomes our starting front 3 now on and in the long term....

We will play better when Pulisic is one day fully fit and Ziyech is fit again. Our defense is solid and if we create enough chances again, we will win much more.

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[Alabama 1,992]

1 minute ago, killer1257 said:

We will play better when Pulisic is one day fully fit and Ziyech is fit again. Our defense is solid and if we create enough chances again, we will win much more.

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Absolutely....its not Quantum mechanics once fully fit Ziyech and Pulisic is back into our line up...we have a very solid backline we will wreck havoc...I wont let few bad results be loud my sense of reasoning...

[killer1257 3,282]

Absolutely....its not Quantum mechanics once fully fit Ziyech and Pulisic is back into our line up...we have a very solid backline we will wreck havoc...I wont let few bad results be loud my sense of reasoning...

Yes, but you know at TC, most people are drama queens and never see the bigger picture. Just short term results, nothing more.

If we played with fully fit Pulisic and Ziyech and still played like that for a longer period of time, I would be worried, but Pulisic and Ziyech have played one match together [emoji23].

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[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

We will play better when Pulisic is one day fully fit and Ziyech is fit again. Our defense is solid and if we create enough chances again, we will win much more.

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2 minutes ago, Alabama said:

Absolutely....its not Quantum mechanics once fully fit Ziyech and Pulisic is back into our line up...we have a very solid backline we will wreck havoc...I wont let few bad results be loud my sense of reasoning...

But here's the thing, what happens if Ziyech comes back and has an off day, like against Spurs recently? Then what? 

Also considering how injury prone Pulisic is and the fact that people keep making fun of it, it's ironic to then see people are seeing him as our savior. Plus, FML if we become a one man team with Ziyech again!