The Mourinho Thread

[nullabletype 987]

You make it sound like it's easy for a young player to keep changing clubs every season.

Chalobah was highly touted, he impressed on loan at Watford in the 12/13 season and they wanted him back the following season...but instead of giving him consistent football with players that he had developed decent chemistry with, we send him on loan to Nottingham Forest, where the manager preferred senior players and suddenly all that hard work he did at Watford was gone.

You can blame the player all you want but part of the problem is also finding a good loan destination for the youngster.

I'm not suggesting it's easy at all, but how many kids have we sent on loan and to how many different clubs? Still, virtually none have made it. Are all those loan destinations not good enough? Wouldn't you expect even a few of those players to flourish if they had the requisite quality?

This club constantly comes under scrutiny for not giving our youth a chance, and of course, the manager has the finger pointed at him. But if these kids are supposedly good enough to be pushing in to our first team squad over the next few years then they should be able to stake a claim in the starting XI at the lower end of the Premier League or in the Championship. Yet, year after year, we loan them out and very few can hold down a place.

Now when that happens, it's not just Mourinho who seemingly doesn't fancy them, it's also their loan club managers who are supposed to directly benefit form having a Chelsea quality youngster. So if they aren't good enough for them, how are they good enough for us?

We play or have bought plenty of young guys. Hazard, Oscar, Zouma and just recently this guy Baba.

It's a myth that Jose doesn't trust the young. He doesn't trust the low quality.

It would be excellent if our academy produced more players, but we can only train them and give them the best facilities. The rest is up to them. If they were the quality of the young guys I listed above they would get a shot. It just happens to be that most of the time they're not, and their careers after us usually prove that to be correct.

[Madmax 9,219]

How's it a cop out? Nobody is moving goalposts in order to mount a defence, they're being realistic.

Carlo gave a few opportunities, where are they now? Even at that, he had a short spell and no real time to set anything in motion.

AvB and Bobby D didn't have time. You're expecting guys coming in to a job knowing they could be out in a year -- who as fate would have it were! -- to start worrying about which academy kids they can bring through. It would be different if this were a club where every manager was at least guaranteed a few seasons, but it's not. So what do you genuinely expect them to do?

Rafa knew he was out in a year, he took the job to pad out his CV. Why would he be worrying about kids?

Mourinho comes back and is only now our longest serving manager since eh... Mourinho. This is why plenty on here are saying to wait until he's actually spent a reasonably long time -- in Chelsea terms -- at the helm. Then, if nobody has come through, whine all you want. But your nuts to expect anybody to come through during what is effectively, at this club, the bedding in period.

As for persisting with duds. Sorry, but these players have usually been proven elsewhere. Some don't make it, but they are the exception not the rule. Plus, they've usually been purchased with the expectation on the manager that they will play, particularly when the club has spent good money on them. Even at that, 2 of the 4 players you mention met the fate of the youth players you speak of and a 3rd is looking likely to go that way too.

Bruma is at PSV, Kakuta at Sevilla, Pva at Sunderland, Bertrand at Southampton ...

2 years is a reasonably long time in Chelsea terms, lol. Long enough to not make it sound like giving a 20 year old 10 games a season is the hardest, most unprecedented, most risk-ridden thing in the world.

Precisely, these Bakers and Bogas do need to cost 'good money' and not merely developmental compensation for them to get a chance, it seems.

Precisely, you don't know where he is. So what does that tell you? Is it Mourinho's fault, or could it be that he hasn't performed well enough in his loan spells to warrant a place in a top premier league club?

This is the point. As soon as a youth player doesn't make it, manager X is to blame. But these are kids supposedly on the verge of pushing in to Chelsea's first team and yet on loans they struggle to hold places down at Championship level.

Could it be that they just aren't good enough?

Or ... or maybe the man who said he was ''ready'' 2 seasons ago messed up by subjecting him to the vagaries of the loan system one too many times? Ideally loan deals would be used as a finishing school, to add some game time under the belt before assimilating them on a successful spell. Instead we just keep sending them out to this, that and the other, expecting them to set the world alight at every stage. You're willing to explain away those poor first team players as 'some make it, some don't' but paint everyone we failed to integrate as 'just not good enough'? Okay.

Honestly, we're at an impasse and there's no point repeating these things. The same arguments from both sides in my five years on this forum.

[Thendo 1,088]

This I definitely agree with, especially about the 'favourites'.

But what I think irks most people on here I think is that, if those managers hadn't been fired then we'd have seen them breakthrough. But with Mourinho, even if he's here for as long as we say, there's still a lack of confidence in his ability to bring through young players. Ancelotti and Rafa (to a lesser extent), gave more exposure to these kids in their time than Mourinho has done in the same number of seasons.

What's also more annoying is when he talks in so much depth about them, but when push comes to shove he's seldom giving them opportunities. Again I bring it back to last season in the dead rubber game when everyone was relying on Mou's promise to give Loftus-Cheek minutes. The media went crazy, some even did some in depth articles on RLC's rise(!). But what happens? 6-7 minutes.

This season will be telling. Loftus-Cheek needs to be given some more meaningful minutes, not just 5 minutes from the final whistle to waste him.

I agree with the point that Mourinho should do more to promote the youth and I was just as annoyed as everyone else when he hyped it up as the "academy day" etc and only played RLC a couple of minutes at the end. He has to actually trust them even if they don't impress in the "first 10 minutes". I think and hope that RLC will get that chance this season, but in the end even if he doesn't, I think it would be mad if people talked about replacing José, one of the best managers in the world (if not the best), solely on that reason, as some already are...

[Jase 43,479]

Q1: "Are you planning long term now, because so far your career has been little patches of 3 years, success, move on?" Jose: "Yes" #CFC (BT)

Mourinho: "Yes, I'm now ready for it [long term]. Maybe it was something 10 years ago I don't want that for my career" #CFC (BT)

Mourinho: Earlier I wanted to move, wanted to try different experiences, wanted to win in different countries, making a better manager. #CFC

Mourinho: "In this moment of my career, I also want to try that stabiity and now I'm going to the 3rd season at #CFC & I'm more than happy"

Mourinho: "I'm more than happy with the profile of job I have now [at #CFC]" (BT)

Mourinho: "What matters is owner & board know I want to stay. They know no other club in this moment of my career would take me out of #CFC

Mourinho: "In this moment, I didn't even need a contract because I know what the club feel, the club knows what I'm feeling." #CFC (BT)

Mourinho: "Even without a [written] contract, I'm here to stay" #CFC (BT)

That's all good to hear Jose and if that's what you really want, then you must start proving that by tweaking your approach to management...

[supporter 3,088]

WBA vs Chelsea - Jose Mourinho pre-match press conference

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ufL_VLmwyE

[MrBlueGuy 1,552]

Anyone think Jose intentionally set us up to be exposed at City to make a message to the board about our squad? I know if we really wanted we could have parked the bus way harder like we did in the past and they wouldn't have been able to create so many chances. I am thinking if he did then it is a good thing because I would rather us be found out when the transfer window is still open so we can fix it with signings instead of starting perfectly with a few 5-0 wins and wait until October for the squad weaknesses to be found out like in 2010-11 season.

While this might be cynical on Jose's part it is also beneficial for us in the long term.

[Jase 43,479]

Anyone think Jose intentionally set us up to be exposed at City to make a message to the board about our squad? I know if we really wanted we could have parked the bus way harder like we did in the past and they wouldn't have been able to create so many chances. I am thinking if he did then it is a good thing because I would rather us be found out when the transfer window is still open so we can fix it with signings instead of starting perfectly with a few 5-0 wins and wait until October for the squad weaknesses to be found out like in 2010-11 season.

While this might be cynical on Jose's part it is also beneficial for us in the long term.

You love conspiracy theories, don't you?

[MrBlueGuy 1,552]

You love conspiracy theories, don't you?

I don't know it seems to fit in, for example we had all summer to sign Pedro and then just suddenly decide to do it after a bad start. The club thought we were strong enough to go again so only a bad preseason along with worrying official results pushed them to make the required signings.

Then Jose saying he will be happy with us not signing anyone else a few weeks ago, then changed it to the tune last week that 'we got moral right to buy'. His tune changes completely since last few weeks, then from Pogba being unaffordable to now rumors of us offering around £60m+ a few players for him.

I know most people will go on about blah blah blah conspiracy bs but sometime these things do actually happen in real life. I mean Cuadrado wasn't good enough to even make the bench against Swansea, you honestly think suddenly a week later Jose is so impressed with his ability that he got sent on against City while Remy and Moses will probably have done better? It is a bit of politic behind the scene, happens everywhere and it clearly worked for us this time for the better.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,059]

Anyone think Jose intentionally set us up to be exposed at City to make a message to the board about our squad? I know if we really wanted we could have parked the bus way harder like we did in the past and they wouldn't have been able to create so many chances. I am thinking if he did then it is a good thing because I would rather us be found out when the transfer window is still open so we can fix it with signings instead of starting perfectly with a few 5-0 wins and wait until October for the squad weaknesses to be found out like in 2010-11 season.

While this might be cynical on Jose's part it is also beneficial for us in the long term.

No I certainly don't think that. If it were true then it would be an absolute disaster for our club. If Emenalo, Bobby Campbell and even Roman himself couldn't see what was so totally, blindingly, obvious to all of us, then Chelsea are in deep trouble. Truth is that of course those people can see what we can see.

[Jase 43,479]

WBA vs Chelsea - Jose Mourinho pre-match press conference

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ufL_VLmwyE

Mourinho either have a short term memory or a selective memory. He pointed out his teams won the treble when they started the season with a 2-2 draw - Porto in 2002/03 and Inter Milan in 2009/10. His Inter side began with a 1-1 draw against Bari (unless of course, he got confused with the away result where they did draw 2-2).

I don't know it seems to fit in, for example we had all summer to sign Pedro and then just suddenly decide to do it after a bad start. The club thought we were strong enough to go again so only a bad preseason along with worrying official results pushed them to make the required signings.

Then Jose saying he will be happy with us not signing anyone else a few weeks ago, then changed it to the tune last week that 'we got moral right to buy'. His tune changes completely since last few weeks, then from Pogba being unaffordable to now rumors of us offering around £60m+ a few players for him.

I know most people will go on about blah blah blah conspiracy bs but sometime these things do actually happen in real life. I mean Cuadrado wasn't good enough to even make the bench against Swansea, you honestly think suddenly a week later Jose is so impressed with his ability that he got sent on against City while Remy and Moses will probably have done better? It is a bit of politic behind the scene, happens everywhere and it clearly worked for us this time for the better.

That's nonsense. You can't say he told the players to purposely do stupid things on the pitch - like telling Courtois to give away the penalty and get sent off or Ivanovic to make mistakes against City, which eventually led to a 3-0 loss, or Hazard to miss the chance to make it 1-1? If things had gone our way a little bit more and we picked up say 4 points from 6, then what? And mind you, Moses wasn't on the bench at City because he was injured and that's why we had to go with Cuadrado.

[MrBlueGuy 1,552]

That's nonsense. You can't say he told the players to purposely do stupid things on the pitch - like telling Courtois to give away the penalty and get sent off or Ivanovic to make mistakes against City, which eventually led to a 3-0 loss, or Hazard to miss the chance to make it 1-1? If things had gone our way a little bit more and we picked up say 4 points from 6, then what? And mind you, Moses wasn't on the bench at City because he was injured and that's why we had to go with Cuadrado.

Nope not specific instructions like telling Courtois to get sent off or Ivanovic to let people run past him at will but something more vague than usual that leaves us at a disadvantage. For example he knows that a highline will be exposed badly with Terry and Cahill at the back but still try it at City, then using haf time as the perfect chance to bring on Zouma and basically directly point out Terry's obvious limitations(Stones message). Then he brought on Cuadrado to show how bad he is for everyone to see and again it sort of worked as he basically was at fault for the 3rd goal and he achieves his aim as evident by us signing Pedro 2 days later. Also for someone as intelligent as him he knew that Sterling and City will target Ivanovic on the right side so if he was really serious he probably would have played someone like Zouma in that CDM role to protect Ivan or at least instruct Willian to stay back more, instead he seemingly ignore this completely and as a result we were destroyed on that side.

In that book by Diego Torres he talked about how Jose told the Real Madrid players to basically throw the 2nd leg of the 2010-11 semi final with Barcelona by not comitting forward...etc but some players refused to listen. He probably didn't do it with us but I can imagine he knows exactly what he is doing to get the board to sign the players we need. I doubt it is a coincidence that our bad performances for the last month is just purely down to player forms. I mean that Fiorentina game we could easily win 4-0 if we really wanted but the players played like a training match compared to against Sociedad a year ago where we basically finished the game in the 1st 10 mins.

Like I said it is too many links to just be coincidence, of course it is not like some master plan or anything but he clearly knows what he has to do to get the players in and if that means playing worse than usual on purpose for a couple of matches then it is worth it. Remember this is the MAN WHO WOULD DO ANYTHING TO WIN. This is not my criticism, I am actually glad he did because we are seemingly getting the players we need thanks to his way.

[Pizy 18,859]

He was in a visibly good mood today and it can't be a coincidence that it's related to our activity in the transfer window. He even went out of his way to hammer on the point that we may not be done until the minute the window closes.

This reinforces my theory that he was being told from above that spending would be limited and to "do it with the same squad," but after the preseason we had and opening two fixtures they've realized that they need to back him and are doing just that.

[MrBlueGuy 1,552]

No I certainly don't think that. If it were true then it would be an absolute disaster for our club. If Emenalo, Bobby Campbell and even Roman himself couldn't see what was so totally, blindingly, obvious to all of us, then Chelsea are in deep trouble. Truth is that of course those people can see what we can see.

They probably did but they didn't think it was THAT SERIOUS hence the relaxed approach in the transfer market. However, Jose made sure they see this more clearly by in my opinion ALTERING or at least tweaking the tactic so these issues are more exposed. All the people you listed I am sure are intelligent people but off the field, not on it so they won't know the issues as well as Jose.

[Melanicus 5,208]

Mourinho's response to the "losing to managers beginning with P" stat: "If I was superstitious I'd say that when I start the season 2-2 I go on to win the treble. It was 2-2 Porto v Belenenses, 2-2 Inter v Bari and 2-2 v Swansea this season."

What a brilliant comeback to a stupid question.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,059]

They probably did but they didn't think it was THAT SERIOUS hence the relaxed approach in the transfer market. However, Jose made sure they see this more clearly by in my opinion ALTERING or at least tweaking the tactic so these issues are more exposed. All the people you listed I am sure are intelligent people but off the field, not on it so they won't know the issues as well as Jose.

OK, we disagree on this then.