The Mourinho Thread

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Putting together one of the worst title defenses by a champion in the premier league era so far.

Yeah but didn't most of those teams go on to win the title in that same season? Roughly looking at it, I can see United, Arsenal and Chelsea have won titles in the seasons they started poorly in.

[Muzchap 8,966]

For me - Mou wouldn't receive half as many complaints if he:

A) stopped being a Dick in post match interviews

Dropped out of form players

C) Tried to integrate the youth

The problem he has is that he is successful and he is stubborn - he probably thinks he can win without changing

An analogy springs to mind:

'drop a frog in boiling water it will jump out. Drop the same frog in cold water and then boil the water, the frog will die'

Now why people needed to boil frogs anyway (except maybe the French ) - the analogy holds true.

We have systematically failed to adapt to a changing environment. We could see the problems last year, but had excuses such as fatigue, tiredness etc - all of these were as a direct result of Jose's failure to manage the squad effectively. However - landing the title largely exonerated him from this.

Cue this season - the same tactics are not working, Hazard off form, Cesc and Costa look terrible and the defence have been smoking big bags of weed!

Our general shape, sharpness and passing is just awful.

I just don't get it - that's what Mou teams were known for - good shape, passing and desire.

I really don't think everything is right behind the scenes - it's so far away from what I expect.

I don't know where this will end - but it could and probably will end with Mou departing. This would be a shame.

[Jase 43,479]

Thing is @Jason, 4-2-3-1 just often becomes 4-3-3 anyway. I mean think about it with our personnel in the first place;

Matic

Fabregas (/Ramires) - Willian(/Oscar)

Pedro - Costa - Hazard

It's just very easy for whoever is playing ahead of Matic to drop back into the middle, since our tactics are pretty much passive.

It's not exactly the same. Players will have a slightly different role and position in a 4-2-3-1 compared to 4-3-3. Heck, if we play the 4-3-3, we won't be using CAMs in the CM position, would we?

[kobematabryant 400]

Everytime we've been poor in the league, we've always managed to reach the Semis of the Champions League at least, let's hope this is the case this time around.

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

Yeah but didn't most of those teams go on to win the title in that same season? Roughly looking at it, I can see United, Arsenal and Chelsea have won titles in the seasons they started poorly in.

they probably did not have a super strong ManCity with a 12 points start ahead of them.

It is not that we can not be still succesfull this season but we have to get our shit together quickly + we have to sign some better defenders and midfielders. I honestly believe we are about a international class cb and cm away from winning coc and fa cup and about 2 wc defenders, 1 wc cm and one wc no.10 away from CL.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

I know Fabregas played an instrumental role in helping us to win the Premier League and League Cup last season but when you look at the bigger picture, at what Mourinho is trying to do, it feels as though he's bought the wrong type/profile of midfield playmaker for the team. Fabregas, with his defiencies, is clearly not suited to playing in the pivot in 4-2-3-1. If anything, we should have been looking for playmakers like Modric, Alonso etc who aren't only capable of dictating the play, creating chances and all that but also can defend properly when needed to. Fabregas can do the former but not the latter and when he's not contributing offensively, then you start to wonder what else does he provide to the side.

I'm kinda surprised that Mourinho hasn't tried to use the 4-3-3 more often. We have the players for that system but we seem so adamant on using the 4-2-3-1 all the time. It can probably give the team a better balance and help the likes of Fabregas to improve - it allows him to bomb forward, create from deep areas without worrying too much his defensive responsibilities given that there will be other 2 players covering for him.

Pretty much this. Been saying that for ages, but no one believed me

Anyway for the team, the playmaker is the key player. When he has the ball, the ball is safe. However with Cesc, its quite the opposite. Infact this season he has no clue what to do with the ball. Either he needs another midfielder next to him (because I think he wont improve, been that kind of player for ages now) or he wont have a place in the team longterm.

You cant play through a key player in small games and then drop him for the big games, because he cant keep up with the game. That effects whole team play, because the one man you play everything through for whole season, is invisible in that key game and Im sure team mates are confused then. Either he adopts to play in big games or you drop him entirely.

[Billy. 2,742]

No please god no.

better then what we got going on atm

[zolayes 14,489]

Yeah but didn't most of those teams go on to win the title in that same season? Roughly looking at it, I can see United, Arsenal and Chelsea have won titles in the seasons they started poorly in.

I think you are mistaken .. as I read it only Man Utd RETAINED the title after a poor start

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

What happened to day we were. Outplayed, Out thought, Out Run, Outclassed, Outmaneuvered, Outsung, (by those wannabe Ultras). Out to grass Fabregas, Cahill and Matic, Out on his ear Ivanovic, Out of the top four at the end of the season? Jose Out of a job if we are ? Outlandish?.

[Unionjack 7,531]

What I dont understand is just how with basically the same lads we played as great as we did early last season then we changed so drastically upto now.

I would have put us upto any team in the world then and made some good money. Ive never considered betting against us but right now its good odds.

I know Mous got to take some of it on his shoulders for team selections but ffs our guys are like the walking dead. Theres no life in them, no urgency. These are millionaire professional players that should be switched on and fighting whenever needed.

The whole squad plus Mou needs a swift kick in the bollox.That will wake them up.

[Pizy 18,984]

The thing that annoys me the most and is just starting to make me crack a bit is the fact that we have no defined style of play. You never know which Chelsea you're going to get from game to game. I used to roll my eyes these past couple of seasons when I'd read some posters here questioned whether José even practiced and trained any attacking football. I'm starting to question that now myself. Game after game after game we look like we don't have a clue what to do with the ball in possession. We have players with unbelievable skill and ability but it's like they simply don't have a plan once they get around the box. Everyone just stands around.

It seems like about 75% of the time Hazard gets the ball passed to him he's at walking pace where he isn't nearly as dangerous. Willian is seriously a donkey when it comes to finishing. Our players may as well start jogging back into defense as soon as the ball leaves his foot because you know it's going out for a goal kick.

A lot of this HAS to be coaching. You look at literally all of our rivals and they have set styles that are all way more pleasing on the eye and effective than ours. Just compare us in the final third to City and Arsenal. Their players look like they've spent countless hours in training working on their interplay, movement, one-twos, forming triangles and all that. They just easily slice through teams like they aren't there. We rely almost entirely on a lightning counter attack or some individual magic from a player. That doesn't happen and we're totally limp and simple as hell to play against.

Teams gets scared by Cityand Arsenal before they even step on the pitch because they know with certainty that they'll have little possession and be on the ropes most of the game. They know with us now that if you just work hard, press, and get after our guys they can get a result. No one seems intimidated by us any longer. Even small teams. I heard a quote from Pardew before the game saying that he wants Palace to "take the game to us." And they do just that. A side that we should be blowing away.

We should be setting out almost every single match day with the mindset that we're far superior to the opposition and that we should dominate the ball.

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

I think you are mistaken .. as I read it only Man Utd RETAINED the title after a poor start

yep 2007/8 and 2008/9 and 1996/7 they managed to RETAIN the title despite poor start

What happened to day we were. Outplayed, Out thought, Out Run, Outclassed, Outmaneuvered, Outsung, (by those wannabe Ultras). Out to grass Fabregas, Cahill and Matic, Out on his ear Ivanovic, Out of the top four at the end of the season? Jose Out of a job if we are ? Outlandish?.

We will recover. I'll put my money on 3rd place finish. 4th if jose gets fired.

[zolayes 14,489]

The thing that annoys me the most and is just starting to make me crack a bit is the fact that we have no defined style of play. You never know which Chelsea you're going to get from game to game. I used to roll my eyes these past couple of seasons when I'd read some posters here questioned whether José even practiced and trained any attacking football. I'm starting to question that now myself. Game after game after game we look like we don't have a clue what to do with the ball in possession. We have players with unbelievable skill and ability but it's like they simply don't have a plan once they get around the box. Everyone just stands around.

It seems like about 75% of the time Hazard gets the ball passed to him he's at walking pace where he isn't nearly as dangerous. Willian is seriously a donkey when it comes to finishing. Our players may as well start jogging back into defense as soon as the ball leaves his foot because you know it's going out for a goal kick.

A lot of this HAS to be coaching. You look at literally all of our rivals and they have set styles that are all way more pleasing on the eye and effective than ours. Just compare us in the final third to City and Arsenal. Their players look like they've spent countless hours in training working on their interplay, movement, one-twos, forming triangles and all that. They just easily slice through teams like they aren't there. We rely almost entirely on a lightning counter attack or some individual magic from a player. That doesn't happen and we're totally limp and simple as hell to play against.

Teams gets scared by Cityand Arsenal before they even step on the pitch because they know with certainty that they'll have little possession and be on the ropes most of the game. They know with us now that if you just work hard, press, and get after our guys they can get a result. No one seems intimidated by us any longer. Even small teams. I heard a quote from Pardew before the game saying that he wants Palace to "take the game to us." And they do just that. A side that we should be blowing away.

We should be setting out almost every single match day with the mindset that we're far superior to the opposition and that we should dominate the ball.

You can dominate by concentrating on attacking IF you have a controlling midfield

to play the counter attacking game you need an excellent defence combined with speed on the counter.

we are equipped to do neither atm.

[Pizy 18,984]

You can dominate by concentrating on attacking IF you have a controlling midfield

to play the counter attacking game you need an excellent defence combined with speed on the counter.

we are equipped to do neither atm.

Its sad.

Feels like all of our great players are going to waste.

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

yep 2007/8 and 2008/9 and 1996/7 they managed to RETAIN the title despite poor start

We will recover. I'll put my money on 3rd place finish. 4th if jose gets fired.

I hope your right M.L. but something is not right something is simmering below the surface. Parallels have to be made between 2007 and now. Something's eating Mourinho he's been taciturn since the start of the season. In 2007 he had the likes of Sidwell and Pizarro foisted on him. Last pre season everyone bought and paid for well before the season started. This season the tug of war with Man U with Pedro which fair enough we won. The Stones fiasco and it was absolutely pointless putting a bid of 20 million for Stones Everton were always going to turn that down. So any subsequent bids Everton were always going to play hard ball. If the original bid was 30 million i think it would have been a done deal possibly 32 to 35 million max. As for Pogba well it's not going to happen end of story

[J.F. 1,484]

!!!

[LDN Blue 7,903]

they probably did not have a super strong ManCity with a 12 points start ahead of them.

It is not that we can not be still succesfull this season but we have to get our shit together quickly + we have to sign some better defenders and midfielders. I honestly believe we are about a international class cb and cm away from winning coc and fa cup and about 2 wc defenders, 1 wc cm and one wc no.10 away from CL.

But mate, how many times have we seen in such recent times alone how much the 'head start' doesn't matter. Teams with less quality than us have chased bigger point margains.. United have done it, hell we've done it a few times. It's still far too premature to begin to get carried away with all this "worst start" crisis talk.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I think you are mistaken .. as I read it only Man Utd RETAINED the title after a poor start

Ah I misread the table entirely lol, I stand corrected :tophat:

[Jase 43,479]

If we do end up losing our title this season, I hope, at the very least, we make a strong case in our attempt to defend it. Would be embarrassing if we just tail off and don't even put up a fight, like what City and United have done in previous seasons.

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

But mate, how many times have we seen in such recent times alone how much the 'head start' doesn't matter. Teams with less quality than us have chased bigger point margains.. United have done it, hell we've done it a few times. It's still far too premature to begin to get carried away with all this "worst start" crisis talk.

I don't remeber any title-winning team ever having recovered being 8 points down after 4 games. Utd have won a chasing title in 2007 but were always within touching distance. chelsea never won a title chasing cos we never had the mental strength to do so. the only chasing title winner i can remember in the last 10 years was city who had 11 points on utd in february but that was an absolute average utd team they hunted down.