The Mourinho Thread

[The Skipper 20,609]

Yeah, Ive been kind of wimp when it comes to this topic, avoiding taking any real stance or being too critical of Mourinho even though there are certain issues I have with him, which to be honest Ive had with him since his first stint here. Nonetheless I remain convinced that hes the right only person who can manage this club for reasons I wont go into now. I think my own concern (and maybe it isnt really one thats mourinhos doing) is that last season it seemed to me that a new spine of this team was emerging - and when I say 'spine' I mean players who were consistently performing at a higher standard compared to the rest of the team & were gradually taking more responsibilities, taking more ownership and taking more of a leadership role in the team. I would say these players were Mata, Luiz, Ramires and (to a lesser extent) Hazard. These were our standout players last season and the first 3 have been key players for us in the past two seasons. Now this season, out of those players, one has been distinctly inconsistent bordering on average, the other two have been on the peripheral margins (due to lost of form or has resulted in them being out of form, depending on what side of the argument you sit on) and only one has been able to carry on last season's form into the current campaign. Now I'm not criticizing Jose for going in a different direction and for making his own changes to the team. What I am saying is that in any team sport, when you have a group of players who represent the core of the team, there's a danger in alienating them.

We've seen this when clubs get promoted to a top tier league and the players who were key to getting them in that position suddenly become not good enough or irrelevant and more expensive players are brought in. We also saw this when AVB came in and suddenly players like Drogba, Lampard, Cole etc players who formed the very fabric of the clubs success for many years suddenly were marginalized and were deemed too old to play a key role. Last season, a new spine emerged and although the success was minimal (by this club's standards) these players showed a lot of heart, showed a lot of quality and for stretches of time showed consistently that carried the team.

Im no expert but I often wonder if by now we would be seeing more progress in the right direction if Jose or the club had focused their summer transfer dealings on acquiring the right players who could have complemented & increased the productivity of this new spine of the team. If we had focused on signing a proper right winger who could create more space for Mata & Hazard to operate and also signed a top striker who could I dont know, finish the chances they create; if we had focused on securing a defender to partner with Luiz one who had the right qualities to be able to mitigate his weakness and also one who could play a high line; if we had focused on signing a midfielder one who would not only complement Ramires but who would also provide some stability when Luiz ventures forward if we had done all of that, had been strategic and smart in acquiring the right pieces that would enable our standout players from last season (most of whom are entering their peak years) maybe just maybe we wouldnt be seeing the disjointed mess of performances that has become too much a frequent occurrence.

Some people greatly exaggerate Benitezs accomplishments at this club last season, but at the end of last season what I saw was some kind of foundation that had been laid with a group of players who were very much becoming the core of the team. Jose only had to improve on that system instead he tore up the blueprint up and started from scratch. That's fine, but by doing so weve now had to take two-step backwards. It took Benitez right till the end of the season before we began to see some kind of direction and cohesion. Was there really any need to start over?

Top post. Exactly how I feel.

[Barbara 15,149]

Whoa! That's what we do here... we disagree... otherwise this forum would be a lot less fun.

That was the least important point I made in my post, at least the one least cared about. I made a mistake though; Jose was hired to win the champions league and he failed at that. Real Madrid spend way too much money to be content with La Liga wins, even by beating Barcelona.

BTW, I am not talking about clubs, but systems. Barcelona's system is superior even with less expensive players on their roster.

It's a big tangent and I feel I am not qualified (less than BPL teams I mean) to talk about Real as I don't care that much about them - even though I prefer them to Barca.

I'm not taking away your right to have an opinion, I just think there's too much stuff I consider crazy in this thread, and for my own benefit I'll stop reading it. People will jump all sharks and while your post isn't crazy, as a Real Madrid fan I'll tell you it's completely inaccurate and I have many RM friends who agree with me and who are missing Mourinho there dearly. So why keep reading a thread only to be annoyed by most things said here? It's a personal problem I have, I'm not saying people should stop posting, I'll just stop reading because most I read here is overreaction... but for others it's not so to each their own.

But back to your post... so winning the UCL is that easy right? You just have to sign a manager and a couple of new guys and plim, the title is yours for the take? Then why it took Bayern three finals to win it again? Why Barcelona was humiliated by Bayern, why ManU was kicked out in Rof16 and groups stage in the last two years? Those were teams that entered the competition to win it, why didn't they? Why did Barcelona and Bayern lose to us two seasons ago? Oh that's right, because knock-out competitions can be unpredictable and there are a few top clubs other than RM playing it every year and clubs that have a great tradition on winning it and making finals.

Mourinho improved the team, his system worked as long as he had the players with him him. Only when there was a split in the group between pro-Mourinho (not even pro, but players who weren't against him, and just wanted to keep winning) and against-Mourinho players shit hit the fan and there was no way that team would win anything. It was divided and it was their fall. Mourinho's RM played much better than Carlo's RM does, and the squad was only improved since José left (although I'm not sure Bale + Isco makes up for Ozil leaving). RM is already 5 points behind a struggling Barcelona in La Liga, why is that?

We completely dominated Spain in the 2011/12 season, we handed Barcelona their ass that season and they struggled last season against us again. I'm not saying Mourinho was (or is) flawless or the manager he used to be in the past, and while saying he failed at RM is arguable, saying his system didn't work is completely unfair and untrue. RM played amazing football for two years under him, it was a pleasure to watch that team and on occasion and very specific matches we had oppositions that either played better than us or we were unlucky. I can talk about RM because I've watched around 90% of their matches in Mourinho's first two seasons and early last season before I was disgusted by Sergio Ramos, Casillas among others fuckers in the group that thought they were bigger than everything, including Real Madrid.

To make a comparison, I rate Mourinho's RM a 8,5/9 team. I rate Mourinho's Chelsea a scrappy 6.

[HD3D 1,038]

This, if that is the case what is the job of the director of football lol. So say our budget is £50m and Jose wants to spend £40m on Ibra for example, the club would never allowed it because he doesn't fit the policy, of course Jose would get the final says in transfer but never his own way completely.

Perhaps you didn't read my post correctly, or maybe you're just a little slow intellectually.

I've never said all managers are allowed to choose where the money is spent. I said the successful ones are. The manager is responsible for how the team plays, and as such, only HE knows what players will fit HIS tactics. If you hired an artist to make you a painting and demanded that he worked with materials that he didn't want nor asked for, in the end you couldn't complain if the artwork didn't look good. It's that simple.

But you seem to be too stupid to understand such a basic concept.

Here's an example of your club management philosophy at work:

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12088/9080335/tottenham-a-shambles-and-directors-of-football-dont-work-says-jeff-stelling

[robsblubot 3,595]

I'm not taking away your right to have an opinion, I just think there's too much stuff I consider crazy in this thread, and for my own benefit I'll stop reading it. People will jump all sharks and while your post isn't crazy, as a Real Madrid fan I'll tell you it's completely inaccurate and I have many RM friends who agree with me and who are missing Mourinho there dearly. So why keep reading a thread only to be annoyed by most things said here? It's a personal problem I have, I'm not saying people should stop posting, I'll just stop reading because most I read here is overreaction... but for others it's not so to each their own.

But back to your post... so winning the UCL is that easy right? You just have to sign a manager and a couple of new guys and plim, the title is yours for the take? Then why it took Bayern three finals to win it again? Why Barcelona was humiliated by Bayern, why ManU was kicked out in Rof16 and groups stage in the last two years? Those were teams that entered the competition to win it, why didn't they? Why did Barcelona and Bayern lose to us two seasons ago? Oh that's right, because knock-out competitions can be unpredictable and there are a few top clubs other than RM playing it every year and clubs that have a great tradition on winning it and making finals.

Mourinho improved the team, his system worked as long as he had the players with him him. Only when there was a split in the group between pro-Mourinho (not even pro, but players who weren't against him, and just wanted to keep winning) and against-Mourinho players shit hit the fan and there was no way that team would win anything. It was divided and it was their fall. Mourinho's RM played much better than Carlo's RM does, and the squad was only improved since José left (although I'm not sure Bale + Isco makes up for Ozil leaving). RM is already 5 points behind a struggling Barcelona in La Liga, why is that?

We completely dominated Spain in the 2011/12 season, we handed Barcelona their ass that season and they struggled last season against us again. I'm not saying Mourinho was (or is) flawless or the manager he used to be in the past, and while saying he failed at RM is arguable, saying his system didn't work is completely unfair and untrue. RM played amazing football for two years under him, it was a pleasure to watch that team and on occasion and very specific matches we had oppositions that either played better than us or we were unlucky. I can talk about RM because I've watched around 90% of their matches in Mourinho's first two seasons and early last season before I was disgusted by Sergio Ramos, Casillas among others fuckers in the group that thought they were bigger than everything, including Real Madrid.

To make a comparison, I rate Mourinho's RM a 8,5/9 team. I rate Mourinho's Chelsea a scrappy 6.

perhaps I am inaccurate when assessing RM and specially Mourinho at RM, but once again, that's not my point. I don't care who the manager is, but if you give him scrappy squad he will play scrappy football. RM are so big that you just can't attribute all success they have or had to a single manager.

Of course winning the CL is no easy feat, but Bayern has been making it to the finals very consistently; to me that's more of a sign of a system than a sporadic win like we did. How many CL did Barcelona win, or reached the finals in the last 10 years? no single player can give you that - only a successful system can. The same system that has been successful for Spain at international level, and the same system that has been failing them, at club and international level too. Perhaps the players, like you said, are indeed getting old.

[Fernando 6,585]

I'm not taking away your right to have an opinion, I just think there's too much stuff I consider crazy in this thread, and for my own benefit I'll stop reading it. People will jump all sharks and while your post isn't crazy, as a Real Madrid fan I'll tell you it's completely inaccurate and I have many RM friends who agree with me and who are missing Mourinho there dearly. So why keep reading a thread only to be annoyed by most things said here? It's a personal problem I have, I'm not saying people should stop posting, I'll just stop reading because most I read here is overreaction... but for others it's not so to each their own.

But back to your post... so winning the UCL is that easy right? You just have to sign a manager and a couple of new guys and plim, the title is yours for the take? Then why it took Bayern three finals to win it again? Why Barcelona was humiliated by Bayern, why ManU was kicked out in Rof16 and groups stage in the last two years? Those were teams that entered the competition to win it, why didn't they? Why did Barcelona and Bayern lose to us two seasons ago? Oh that's right, because knock-out competitions can be unpredictable and there are a few top clubs other than RM playing it every year and clubs that have a great tradition on winning it and making finals.

Mourinho improved the team, his system worked as long as he had the players with him him. Only when there was a split in the group between pro-Mourinho (not even pro, but players who weren't against him, and just wanted to keep winning) and against-Mourinho players shit hit the fan and there was no way that team would win anything. It was divided and it was their fall. Mourinho's RM played much better than Carlo's RM does, and the squad was only improved since José left (although I'm not sure Bale + Isco makes up for Ozil leaving). RM is already 5 points behind a struggling Barcelona in La Liga, why is that?

We completely dominated Spain in the 2011/12 season, we handed Barcelona their ass that season and they struggled last season against us again. I'm not saying Mourinho was (or is) flawless or the manager he used to be in the past, and while saying he failed at RM is arguable, saying his system didn't work is completely unfair and untrue. RM played amazing football for two years under him, it was a pleasure to watch that team and on occasion and very specific matches we had oppositions that either played better than us or we were unlucky. I can talk about RM because I've watched around 90% of their matches in Mourinho's first two seasons and early last season before I was disgusted by Sergio Ramos, Casillas among others fuckers in the group that thought they were bigger than everything, including Real Madrid.

To make a comparison, I rate Mourinho's RM a 8,5/9 team. I rate Mourinho's Chelsea a scrappy 6.

I don't understand how you can be fans of many European teams?

When they play each other on the Champions League you can't be loving both.....

[Barbara 15,149]

perhaps I am inaccurate when assessing RM and specially Mourinho at RM, but once again, that's not my point. I don't care who the manager is, but if you give him scrappy squad he will play scrappy football. RM are so big that you just can't attribute all success they have or had to a single manager.

Of course winning the CL is not easy feat, but Bayern has been making it to the finals very consistently; to me that's more of a sign of a system than a sporadic win like we did. How many CL did Barcelona win, or reached the finals in the last 10 years? no single player can give you that - only a successful system can. The same system that has been successful for Spain at international level, and the same system that has been failing them, at club and international level too. Perhaps the players, like you said, are indeed getting old.

now this is something I agree with. I just don't think three SF in a row is a bad result, especially for a team just as Galactico as this one that had a streak of 8 R16 eliminations. We have a scrappy team now imo because of age, deficiency in some zones in the pitch and Mourinho's mistakes too. But I guess the system is alright, it's been only a few months, Bayern and Barcelona took nearly a decade to start getting the fruits of their philosophy.

I don't understand how you can be fans of many European teams?

When they play each other on the Champions League you can't be loving both.....

Chances of them meeting each other aren't that great and it doesn't happen very often. But I do have a priority list: Chelsea >> Real Madrid >> Inter (although for as long as Perez is there, it's Inter >> RM because I don't approve of what he does to RM, he's destroying our club!). And Flamengo (Brazil side) ahead of all of those. Most Chelsea European fans also have a team they support in their country. I don't see a problem, but I respect those who see it and can't imagine themselves supporting more than one team.

I've started supporting Flamengo at age 2 when 1982 Brazil NT came to play in my hometown and Zico held me, my mother took me to watch football since early age, when he held me and I said I'd want to support his team.

My passion for football started after it, ofc, two years is too young, but about 7 I was a full-time Flamengo fan. At age 8 I started watching Italian football with my uncle. I started supporting Inter although he wanted me to be a Juventus fan. It was about 25 years ago. Then when I was around 13 I started watching La Liga... and around 10-11 years ago I started supporting Chelsea.

Thing is I like Chelsea and English football much more, despite being the most recent passion. There's no league in the world as EPL. So it's a life of loving a sport and getting interest in new leagues. I can't help myself.

[Namika 922]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/21/chelsea-jose-mourinho-mesut-ozil-arsenal

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/21/jose-mourinho-ends-feud-andre-villas-boas

[nadavTKL 1,787]

Mourinho -- "I think, to prepare Chelsea’s new team for about a decade, the same way as Chelsea’s old team for almost a decade. I don’t think Chelsea can have a better manager than I am. I think I’m the right person to do the job".

"Next season, Chelsea will have a phenomenal team. Between the work we are doing [on] the evolution of the players and a couple of clinical signings. When you buy 2 clinical players to complete the puzzle you're building, I think that CFC next season will have a very good team."

[The Skipper 20,609]

Mourinho -- "I think, to prepare Chelseas new team for about a decade, the same way as Chelseas old team for almost a decade. I dont think Chelsea can have a better manager than I am. I think Im the right person to do the job".

"Next season, Chelsea will have a phenomenal team. Between the work we are doing [on] the evolution of the players and a couple of clinical signings. When you buy 2 clinical players to complete the puzzle you're building, I think that CFC next season will have a very good team."

Agree with him on the latter.

Most people on here believe that our team is very unbalanced but I disagree. Said it at the start of the season that we're probably 2 or 3 signings away from a complete squad which isn't as bad as people are trying to make it out to be.

[Stingray 9,441]

Mourinho -- "I think, to prepare Chelseas new team for about a decade, the same way as Chelseas old team for almost a decade. I dont think Chelsea can have a better manager than I am. I think Im the right person to do the job".

"Next season, Chelsea will have a phenomenal team. Between the work we are doing [on] the evolution of the players and a couple of clinical signings. When you buy 2 clinical players to complete the puzzle you're building, I think that CFC next season will have a very good team."

Agree with him on the latter.

Most people on here believe that our team is very unbalanced but I disagree. Said it at the start of the season that we're probably 2 or 3 signings away from a complete squad which isn't as bad as people are trying to make it out to be.

Completely agree. I am inclined to think we will take the slow and thorough route: not buying in january and very strategically filling the gaps during the summer.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Agree with him on the latter.

Most people on here believe that our team is very unbalanced but I disagree. Said it at the start of the season that we're probably 2 or 3 signings away from a complete squad which isn't as bad as people are trying to make it out to be.

The problem is that the 2-3 signings we need are right down the spine (CB, CM, ST). That's at least £70 million in spending, plus we probably need a new left-back (£15 million+).

We've got the tinsel and the baubles but no tree to hang them on.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

The problem is that the 2-3 signings we need are right down the spine (CB, CM, ST)

This^^^

[Sidzeret 2,257]

Agree with him on the latter.

Most people on here believe that our team is very unbalanced but I disagree. Said it at the start of the season that we're probably 2 or 3 signings away from a complete squad which isn't as bad as people are trying to make it out to be.

2-3 signings that actually work. Only time can tell.

[bushman 2,043]

Well, 2 or 3 signings in the summer, represents around 60 or more millions.

Then, Jose´s team will whip anybody, he says. LOL.

Since he claims he is the best, no one comes close to him...I can´t believe this arrogance.

[Mouri_Matic 560]

Well, 2 or 3 signings in the summer, represents around 60 or more millions.

Then, Jose´s team will whip anybody, he says. LOL.

Since he claims he is the best, no one comes close to him...I can´t believe this arrogance.

A striker for £30m min, a mid for £15m min, a CB for £15m min