Roman Abramovich Thread

[Kieran. 6,317]

[long rant]

You don't post often, but your posts are always great. A credit to the forum.

[LayZ 201]

Great post laura...

But one point of contention is transition needs to be a constant state,there is no perfect team in this world....only teams like Liverpool make a big fuss about transition,great teams like Barcelona and Manchester United incorporate youngsters all the time without any kind of publicity at all...imagine Darren Fletcher and Johnny Evans starting their careers at Chelsea,they would never have cut it here and would probably have gone on to become jobbing footballers for mid table clubs...

[Peace. 4,352]

Good analyse Laura, you pretty summed up what I wanted to say for some times now (didn't have time).

-----------------------------

First of all, I'd like to say that the thread title is not true. The world isn't all black or all white. Nowadays, the managerial instability might be trendy, altough managerial stability still exists.

Now, the questions are : Does the fact that managerial instability is the new flavor mean we should also act this way ? Does the fact managerial instability didn't affect our team in a negative way, mean we should continue in this path ? Does the fact it worked till now mean that firing managers whenever something goes wrong will work forever ?

Untill now, we enjoyed a successful decade and lifted many trophies, while going through a genuine instability. Ever since Mourinho was appointed at the club, we had hired seven managers in eight seasons (I am not counting this one). Though it didn't keep us away of winning the Champions League, three Premier League and a handful of FA Cup / League Cup. So... Hooray ! From now on, we should not be hesitating a second to sack managers, it doesn't affect us, doesn't it ?

Nah. We might seem to be above all this nonsense of managerial longevity, but actually we aren't, and the fact we have managed to survive to this managerial musical chairs is way more complexe to explain than to solely say "Roman knows what he does - and managerial longevity doesn't exist anymore".

Indeed. We might have not experienced managerial stability, nonetheless we experienced a longevity : the longevity and stability of our squad. I ask you, what is the similarity between all these eight seasons ? Four players who were the core of Chelsea, who made the success of our beloved team. They were Petr Cech, John Terry, Frank Lampard and Didier Drogba. They were all world-class players, and arguably ones of the best players at their position. But they weren't only about that. They had this never-die mentality, they were the kind of players to give their heart on the field, to stand-up when things were going wrong, they were natural leaders. In short they were embodying our club during all those years.

And around this core of players, we had players of the likes of Ricardo Carvalho (six seasons), Michael Ballack (four seasons), Michael Essien (seven seasons) and Ashley Cole. They were also world-class players, and had a winning mentality. At the exception of Ballack and Cole, all of the players I mentioned above were shaped by Mourinho. José considerably influenced the way we played, the way we acted and reacted during all these eight seasons, even if he wasn't there. Each and everytime something went wrong, our team was switching of in the "Mourinho mode". We went in the Champions League final in 2008 because the team played this way. We should have made it to the final the next year, more or less thanks to that (Hiddink did a fantastic job, but he was helped by the fact the players were already adapted to the defensive football). We won the Champions by playing this old good park-the-bus tactict implanted in by the portugesh. During all those years José Mourinho's face was lurking upon the Bridge. Ad to the mix some players of the like of Paulo Feirerra (eight seasons), Salomon Kalou (six seasons), John Obi Mikel (six seasons) and Branislav Ivanovic (five seasons). Even though they weren't as important as he aforementioned players, they were still part of the club for a long time.

Mourinho built a well-oiled engin. This team could play by itself, play without manager (i.e. Grant area...). The managerial merry-go round didn't affect them because they were an unity, they knew what they had to do. They didn't need the manager at all to move their ass. During this eight seasons, our team didn't really change its face ; its heart remained the same during all those years. Mou set the foundation for his successors ! They all more or less used the pattern set by the portuguese : solid in defense, get the ball to Didier and let him to his job, with Lampard orchestrating the midfield (to different extends, Grant, Hiddink, Ancelotti and Di Matteo based their tacticts on this pattern). By the way, the two managers who tried to get away from the Mou legacy couldn't even finish the year. Therefore, we can say we had have stability at some level. We could even say that in some way, we had have the same manager during eight seasons throught Mourinho ghost.

Will we still get away from the bad effects caused by managerial instability in the futur ? No, I do not think so. We were able to get away till now, but that was in a particular context. I believe we should quite this, because I am affraid of us putting one knee on the ground and never be able to raise again.

Just take a look at the difference between the current team and the former one. Ima analyse two similar events : Chelsea 1 - 1 Barça in 2008-09 and Chelsea 2 - 3 ManU this year. In both games we were fucked badly by the ref. What happened back then ? Ballack was yelling like a vicking warrior at Overbro's ears and was running everywhere as if there wasn't any tomorrow. Drogba was insane and said the legendary "this is a fucking disgrace". Did we see something like this from our players ? Do not get me wrong, I am not saying we should act like insane men each and every time the ref makes a mistake, no. But did we see this explosion of passion mixed with rage after being robbed by the ref ? I don't think so. That might be a detail, but in my honest opinion that tells a lot.

And now, what is the situation ? Drogba has left. Ballack and Carvalho as well. Lampard isn't a starter anymore and we don't even know when he will have first team action again. Terry is also in decline, and because of injuries and off-football concerns, he cannot play regulary at the moment. While Ashley can still be world-class, he cannot maintain this level for all games. Essien is on loan, we don't know whether he'll play for Chelsea next year, and even if, he is only the shadow of what he was. Throughout last year and this summer, we also lost quite a few experienced players (Alex, Anelka, Kalou, Bosingwa - before everyone starts with the "Kalou and Bisingwa were shit", they were what they were, but they had experience and bring us some things young players cannot, c.f. Barça and Benfica games last year). And Florent Malouda and Paulo Feirerra migh be on a road trip now, with all the spare time they have.

We're left with a bunch of U23 players. We cannot rely all season long upon our experienced players. And a have only a few players at the age of their peak (let's say approximatively from 26 to 30 year-old, so Cahill, Ivanovic, Ladyboy) - out of three of them, one is helpless... So, basically, who is gonna drag our team like Lampard, Terry and Drogba were doing ? Oscar ? Mata ? Hazard ? Azpilicueta ? Cech would be nice, though he cannot do a lot of things considering he has to stay between the posts... The players the nearest of what we can actually call "leaders" are Ivanovic and Luiz - though it leaves a lot to be desired.

Furthermore, our manager merry-go round truly started when Mourinho got fired. At that moment, José had three years to build a team with solid basis. He didn't only do that, he built an extraordinary team. So, when the merry-go round started, that team had a great mentality, a great mental strength. Does our current team is like this ? No, that's quite the contrary. That team had a well identified play pattern. Does our current team possess this well identified pattern ? No !!! We do not have pattern, we do not have a style of play, we do not have an identity.

Who is gonna implant a play pattern ? Roberto Di Matteo ? No way, in four months he didn't have time. This spanish waiter ? In six month he won't have any time to forge a team. So who ? The random guy we'll hire this summer ? He will have a hell of a job : to take over a team, which in one year played during six months attacking football, and then for the six following months an atrocious negative football, and then implant his own game style ? Good luck with this, players may be lost... And what if he cannot escape to the Tsar judgment ? A bad vicious circle is lurking around.

To conclude, this isn't because untill now sacking manager didn't hit us that we should blindly carry on the musical chairs. This isn't because each sacking arguably turned out to be a good decision, that Roman will be always right in his choices. Mourinho legacy is vanishing in thin air and isn't there anymore. We have to build a team. And in order to fulfil this purpose, we have to have a managerial stability. Even Pep couldn't build our team in six months - this is a process which takes time. This is why I deeply believe we should take a break for a while and stick by a manager so we can build a solid foundation to our team. Precariousness isn't the right path to follow.

P.S. Apologies for the laborious english.

[zolayes 14,489]

Great post laura...

But one point of contention is transition needs to be a constant state,there is no perfect team in this world....only teams like Liverpool make a big fuss about transition,great teams like Barcelona and Manchester United incorporate youngsters all the time without any kind of publicity at all...imagine Darren Fletcher and Johnny Evans starting their careers at Chelsea,they would never have cut it here and would probably have gone on to become jobbing footballers for mid table clubs...

the old Liverpool of the 70s invented smooth transition ....change of managers from the boot room following on from Shankly ..

on the playing side bought big and well in advance of their immediate need ,, A model copied by Ferguson ...

Sadly we seem to be like a rudderless ship in a storm,,,the rocks beckon

[Bosnian Blue 2,471]

That was 10 minutes well spent, two brilliant posts. And also two posts which proved that the way people feel about Roman's methods is almost entirely false.

[Kez 2,727]

Fuck. Reading what peace & laura just wrote. We're never going to find a manager like mourinho again. He changed the mentality of the players & turned them into winners. When these players leave things wont be the same chances are we'll struggle without a world class manager & one thats given time. I want mourinho back more than ever right now.

[YouNameIt 1,511]

Our next Mourinho: Lampard or Terry.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

I actually think we would have won in 04-05 even with Ranieri. People tend to forget that we finished second in 03-04 and then bought Ferriera, Cech, Robben, Drogba, and Carvalho. I really think that managers, once they reach a certain level of knowledge, are mostly fungible. The most important thing for me is that they have the ability to communicate their plan and what they want from their players be able to keep egos in check.

[Fulham Broadway 17,299]

I actually think we would have won in 04-05 even with Ranieri. People tend to forget that we finished second in 03-04 and then bought Ferriera, Cech, Robben, Drogba, and Carvalho. I really think that manager, once they reach a certain level of knowledge, are mostly fungible. The most important thing for me is that they have the ability to communicate their plan and what they want from their players be able to keep egos in check.

Yup many confuse the Ranieri signings with Mourinhos' success. -Duff, Bridge, Cole, johnson, Cech, Robben, Gallas, Crespo, sniff Mutu sniff, Makalele -all brought in by Ranieri. Mourinho is a great motivator and one for making players believe in themselves-which is what you want really. Oh and 2 for every position, which needs to be adhered to now.

[zolayes 14,489]

I actually think we would have won in 04-05 even with Ranieri. People tend to forget that we finished second in 03-04 and then bought Ferriera, Cech, Robben, Drogba, and Carvalho. I really think that managers, once they reach a certain level of knowledge, are mostly fungible. The most important thing for me is that they have the ability to communicate their plan and what they want from their players be able to keep egos in check.

If kenyon had treated Ranieri properly we might not have seen that disaster in Monaco and we could have won the CL that year

[The only place to be 11,313]

Our next Mourinho: Lampard or Terry.

I've never quite understood why people would think John Terry would make a good manager. As a player, he's committed, brave and a strong leader.

But he's too fucking thick to be a manger. Sorry.

Lampard on the other hand probably has the intellect required to be a modern manager, but I don't know if he'll want to. He's establishing a life after football and I think he's going to leave the game and go on to other things.

Having read the two rather long posts above, I'm not really sure what their conclusion is beyond Mourhino was a good manager and we had good players who carried the team for a long time. I agree with that. Up until last season, this was still Jose's team.

Watching the match on Wednesday I came to the conclusion that I don't know whose team this is anymore. There's no leadership on the pitch and Benitez isn't Chelsea.

We need to secure Champions League football though. If that means limping home in fourth spot then so be it. It's going to be messy, but it's a necessity. Then we can reach summer and that is when the rebuilding can start and our owner seems to have just one man in mind for that - Guardiola.

Managerial longevity exists when clubs find the right manager to take them on. We haven't had that since Mourinho left, but that was in 2007 and 5-6 years isn't uncommon for teams to 'drift' having lost important managers. Look at any successful club and you'll usually find periods either before or after 'iconic' managers were hired when the club was somewhat aimless. We're in that period now, and Roman has looked for the next long-term Chelsea manger but it hasn't worked out. It will though.

[Strike 7,474]

laura made the point

the most disappointing thing during all this is that the season is now derailed Due to Rafa coming. under rdm, we were talking of a title challenge but the sacking and the subsequent hiring of Rafa has failed to invigorate the club like previous mid-season managerial changes - avram(not a perfect example), hiddink and di matteo.

appreciate roman on one thing. he'll not let us become arsenal at any cost. none of the "top 4 is good enough" nonsense but ultimately, we have shot ourselves in the foot this season. rafa needs a win and soon because he has come in and made us defensively compact but 4 shots(?) in 180 mins of football AT HOME is just pathetic. against ManCity, the David Luiz free kick was the only shot we had.

Rafa brought up the Bertrand experiment again. We tried and failed with it earlier in the season. not saying di Matteo was a great manager but he knew the club. we were heading for a top 4 finish. that was the season objective before guardiola or someone comes in the summer.

what is done is done and i hope the club doesn't panic-buy anyone expensive in January and just wait till the summer to sort the mess out because we are not a good team now. we just have a bunch of talented individuals

[dellaw 37]

is roman a real chelsea fan i would love to think he is but there is always that bit of me that thinks if he was a real fan he would not have done this rafa crap as he would of known how we felt i have always said it doesnt matter what happens in life because chelsea will all ways be there having fought back from two heart attacks and a stroke wich left me with out the use of my left side i aint about to let Rafa get the better of me

go compare

go compare

Rafa f- off

because we know you dont care

support the shirt CHELSEA

[Corner 456]

There are plenty of topics where you can already discuss this. We don't really need another one.

[Grillinnap 129]

Fuck this

[Stats 7,135]

Fuck you Abramovich! You see what you have caused! Total prick, hope you reflect now you total arsehole!

[Stats 7,135]

Fuck you Abramovich! You see what you have caused! Total prick, hope you reflect now you total arsehole!

[Strike 7,474]

seriously wow. This must be the last straw for Roman. atleast on previous occasions, the new manager coming in the middle of the season invigorated the team but rafa seems like a headless chicken. marin and oscar on during an aerial bombardment? seriously? that too for Moses?

I hope the Fat Spanish Waiter gets us top 4 and f***s right off in the summer