Roman Abramovich Thread

[Tomo 21,741]

  On 23/11/2012 at 12:09, Superfrankie said:

I remember you Tomo just over a year ago saying that AVB could be our very own Ferguson.

Then you will see why ive seen the light then. I learnt a lot from that spell, one of the things being to trust the owner.

[Rmpr 8,977]

  On 23/11/2012 at 04:35, Henrique said:

I 100% agree with your post.

Everything is just a cycle though, we did some big mistakes and we are getting the consequence of it (unbalanced squad, media bashing, Benitez, etc). Remember when RM was buying all the wrong players at the begining of 2010 and when Mourinho was always losing composure at Barça games? Look at them now: great squad, manager, trophies, CR7, etc. You can make the same case for Bayern in their transition from 2001 to 2009 and with Barcelona from 1995 to 2004. It happens with almost all the teams.

We had a excellent period with Mourinho and it only survived the terrible moves because it was a fucking talented team. It had their last hurrah with Carlo and RDM and now it is a rebuild period. We let our squad get old without rejuvenating it and now with are on construction mode. It will take some time but I am sure Roman and the Board have learnt somethings with those mistakes.

I think it is ok to criticize Abramovich. Now, I dont agree people are right wanting him out.

[Fulham Broadway 17,092]

  On 23/11/2012 at 12:12, manpe said:

The best thought out post I've seen regarding the current state of economics and how that transcribes to football :tophat:

Thank you sir.

Remember when Benitez joined in with Wenger saying how Abramovichs money had ruined football.? Kind of ironic now the fat pig has his snout in the cash trough with all the other 'yes' men

[The only place to be 11,313]

  On 23/11/2012 at 15:22, Fulham Broadway said:

Thank you sir.

Remember when Benitez joined in with Wenger saying how Abramovichs money had ruined football.? Kind of ironic now the fat pig has his snout in the cash trough with all the other 'yes' men

He said that because it was in his club's interests at the time to do so.

I'm just waiting for someone to voice anger that Benitez tried to beat us when he was at Liverpool.....I mean, the nerve of the guy.

[Henrique 9,133]

The World Cup was tne reason RDM got the axe right now.

I really understand that. Chelsea just won the UCL, its a huge opportunity to improve the brand around the world and to estabilish itself as one of greatest clubs in the world.

Many people thought Chelsea did not deserve to win UCL last season. Then against Atlético, we were humiliated.

Now, the first european champion to not advance to knockout stage in UCL.

Imagine now the club losing the World Cup in Japan next month.

[Fulham Broadway 17,092]

  On 23/11/2012 at 15:29, The only place to be said:

He said that because it was in his club's interests at the time to do so.

Nothing to do with the interest of Liverpool FC- Gillete and Hicks as small time parasites compared to Abramovich would have been squirming

[Rmpr 8,977]

@Fulham Broadway, the whole is way deeper than you have described. I wont describe every wrong way of managering a club becasue it would become a book, but the problem is not this new type of quick burning money success (PSG, ManCity, Chelsea), it is that nobody in the world has found a healthy way of running a football club.

You could argue that the German`s Clubs do it right and that Barcelona do it too but I would disagree.

The Germans got their finances straight but that does not mean it is completely fair, clubs like BVB and Bayern Munich have more than double of the income of half of Bundesliga, creating a huge gap between the teams. Just like FFP, it prevents craziness but also prevents investments.

Barcelona is ruled by the fans and it hasnt helped much. La Masia produces some real good talents but it is not a factory and you cant control when it is going to flurish (90s for instance). They are in some serious finance problems as well. Their president had to sell the jersey for the first time in 100 years and they cancelled their plan to cover the Camp Nou, so it is not all flowers.

It is not a matter of choosing between money and authoritarism or the fans. The whole football concept is wrong. There are not enough rules and consequences to it...

The only way I can see going foward is something very similar to the MLB.

[Las7 951]

The problem is not with the sacking, as much as the time Robbie was sacked and who he was replaced with. If Roman had gotten his man(Pep) and he sacked Robbie knowing Pep is coming than I'd understand that decision but sacking Robbie after not backing him in the first place and sticking in Rafa for 6 months is a joke.

[Fulham Broadway 17,092]

  On 23/11/2012 at 16:10, Rmpr said:

@Fulham Broadway, the whole is way deeper than you have described. I wont describe every wrong way of managering a club becasue it would become a book, but the problem is not this new type of quick burning money success (PSG, ManCity, Chelsea), it is that nobody in the world has found a healthy way of running a football club.

You could argue that the German`s Clubs do it right and that Barcelona do it too but I would disagree.

The Germans got their finances straight but that does not mean it is completely fair, clubs like BVB and Bayern Munich have more than double of the income of half of Bundesliga, creating a huge gap between the teams. Just like FFP, it prevents craziness but also prevents investments.

Barcelona is ruled by the fans and it hasnt helped much. La Masia produces some real good talents but it is not a factory and you cant control when it is going to flurish (90s for instance). They are in some serious finance problems as well. Their president had to sell the jersey for the first time in 100 years and they cancelled their plan to cover the Camp Nou, so it is not all flowers.

It is not a matter of choosing between money and authoritarism or the fans. The whole football concept is wrong. There are not enough rules and consequences to it...

The only way I can see going foward is something very similar to the MLB.

Because modern day clubs are businesses first and foremost -with football added on as the extra bit. Businesses will fail and some will succeed.

I like your analogy of La Masia football as a factory. This is true of the whole industry. The production line workers are the players. It is a beautiful game, but playing football is brutal and violent work—most players have short careers and sacrifice their bodies for their vocation. The workers may be vastly overpaid, but they still sell their labour to the capitalist owners, who proceed to make vast profits from them.

The coaches, scouts, and trainers are the engineers, production planners, and shopfloor managers in the factory. Their schemes, strategies, and training prepare and coordinate the production process. Combined with the skills of the athletes, they engineer schemes and tactics that keep the game evolving and competitive.

The referees can be easily overlooked, but they play a crucial part in the valuation process. They are the quality control specialists, ensuring that working conditions are uniform and safe, and that a quality product is turned out, play-by-play and week-by-week.

What do owners do? They sit in luxury boxes, sucking their bloody profits from the bodies and minds of the players, coaches and refs. Much like the super-wealthy in other sectors.

Capitalism has crises and businesses collapse, financial suffering for workers and their families follows. Unemployment, and associated increases in health problems, depression and suicide risk. By comparison the problems of football capitalism, the demise of clubs, can be seen as trivial -but its still gutting in so much as the emotional investment by fans is often greater than that given to a wife or girlfriend

[Rmpr 8,977]

  On 23/11/2012 at 16:30, Fulham Broadway said:

Because modern day clubs are businesses first and foremost -with football added on as the extra bit. Businesses will fail and some will succeed.

I like your analogy of La Masia football as a factory. This is true of the whole industry. The production line workers are the players. It is a beautiful game, but playing football is brutal and violent work—most players have short careers and sacrifice their bodies for their vocation. The workers may be vastly overpaid, but they still sell their labour to the capitalist owners, who proceed to make vast profits from them.

The coaches, scouts, and trainers are the engineers, production planners, and shopfloor managers in the factory. Their schemes, strategies, and training prepare and coordinate the production process. Combined with the skills of the athletes, they engineer schemes and tactics that keep the game evolving and competitive.

The referees are easily be overlooked, but they play a crucial part in the valuation process. They are the quality control specialists, ensuring that working conditions are uniform and safe, and that a quality product is turned out, play-by-play and week-by-week.

What do owners do? They sit in luxury boxes, sucking their bloody profits from the bodies and minds of the players, coaches and refs. Much like the super-wealthy in other sectors.

Capitalism has crises and businesses collapse, financial suffering for workers and their families follows. Unemployment, and associated increases in health problems, depression and suicide risk. By comparison the problems of football capitalism, the demise of clubs, can be seen as trivial -but its still gutting in so much as the emotional investment by fans is often greater than that given to a wife or girlfriend

True, I am more realistic though. The big changes and philosophy wont happen so I want the small one at least...

There are ways to transform football in a transparent and healthy business. American institutions does it for decades. I am not crazy expecting it can be done anywhere but I am sure it can be done in England.

Some leagues (NFL and NBA) have an insurmountable budget for clubs, but I dont like that. I prefer MLB, it has a budget for players and staff wages but it is called a soft budget, if the team wants to spend more than the limit they have to pay the same amount that exceeds in taxes to be divided equaly to the res of the league. For instance, FA decides that no club can spend more than 150mi/season and Chelsea has a 169mi payroll, it has to pay 19mi on taxes or 1mi for each club in the EPL. Since American franchises dont spend money on trasnfers (it just dont exist), they dont have a budget for it. In that case FA would have to create both a transfer limit for the amount of players and money. Lastly, it would have to allow some financial loss (so teams can invest in future growth). The rules on FFP first years would work amazingly well with a budget system.

This would still benefit the big clubs, but it would also leave space for the small clubs to get a share of the fun. Since teams wont be able to get 30 high price players, some small team could grasp one of them. West Ham would have money to keep Tevez, Wigan to keep Moses, etc. Also, since the Boards wont have such freedom, the fans end up being more involved (clearly felt in the USA).

Again, this is only possible in places like German and England because it already has a very well profit divison system and a decent and powerful federation.

It still has the capitalism gene and owners and players making money, but at least it is healthy and more balanced.

[Krypt 241]

  On 23/11/2012 at 16:30, Fulham Broadway said:

Capitalism has crises and businesses collapse, financial suffering for workers and their families follows. Unemployment, and associated increases in health problems, depression and suicide risk. By comparison the problems of football capitalism, the demise of clubs, can be seen as trivial -but its still gutting in so much as the emotional investment by fans is often greater than that given to a wife or girlfriend

Have to agree with this. We put so much emotion into a football club you forget how trivial some things are. The way were willing to call people names just because they wear a diffrent shirt to the one we love. This season is a stange one because of the newer players its hard to feel emotion to a new group of players. Yes there is still lamps and Terry here but without the likes of Drogba , essien etc it feels strange adding Rafa to the mix jus makes it ever stranger. We have had so much sucess during the last 8 years we have become attached to certain people its hard to move on. Its all going to take time to adjust to the "New" Chelsea but turning our back on the new players and owner and to an extent the new manager won't help us one bit.

[TheCount 146]

  On 23/11/2012 at 07:04, KonohasOrangeFlash said:

Seriously, I'm getting tired of the Circle Jerk over stability. Look at Madrid. They have the same model as us (although ours is more drastic) and it has worked for both of us. So get over it.

It only started working since they got a solid manager, Jose, before that they were shit for a good decade even with the "galacticos"

Before that sure, but you cant argue the point recently anyway.

[didierforever 7,349]

  On 23/11/2012 at 06:43, NishC300 said:

(http://www.diminbeirut.typepad.com) FFS FERGUSON'S ONLY THERE because HE'S LIKE A POLITCIAN! UTD use his as a tool to remain powerful in England (Suarez, Viera). UTD is the most corrupt organisation in football!!!! Fergie is like an MP in the UK!!! Look at them David Gill and that bastard Mike Riley all fucking cunts!!! Fergie is there to make them more strong politically!! THAT IS ALL DAMN IT!!! FFS look at UTD play they never dominate a game! THey are always lucky!!! They just score randomn goals they concede less goals than they deserve!!! ALL A BUNCH OF BASTARDS!!!! FERGIE IS THERE FOR CORRUPTION!!

SO STOP BLOODY TALKING ABOUT FERGUSON!!! TALK ABOUT MOYES AND WENGER!!!

dude are you sure u r here for the right reason. its a chelsea fan forum and not a manu/ferguson hate forum. btw DAVID MOYES is a great coach who has done wonders with the limited cash he gets. Wenger is turning into a failure now but he has won his share of trophies. people who you are talking about are some big names and deserve a certain respect, so please show it.

[didierforever 7,349]

  On 23/11/2012 at 06:58, RamiCFC9 said:

In the end : who's done more for Chelsea ? Roman or Robbie ? Ahaha pretty obvious.Iam actually dissapointed RDM wasn't long enough here for all people to see how massively out of depth was he.

this statement would cause rdm more pain and hurt than the sacking itself. shameful statement..

[OneMoSalah 8,834]

I'd rather the club won trophies and was recognized as a successful club than kept managers for 10 years. If anyone else would rather a manager in charge for 10 years and not as many trophies then they are fucking retarded. Also being honest, Robbie isn't as a great a manager as you think, he won us the CL which we are all grateful for but his tactical knowledge was useless, every team we've played, we've gave time and space on the ball this season. If some of the finishing was better, we'd be 7th or 8th not 3rd.

[Tabby 0]

This rafa thing? What do you think guys?

[TheCount 146]

  On 23/11/2012 at 21:16, Tabby said:

This rafa thing? What do you think guys?

This.

[Muzchap 8,966]

  On 23/11/2012 at 21:13, RyanDavidson said:

I'd rather the club won trophies and was recognized as a successful club than kept managers for 10 years. If anyone else would rather a manager in charge for 10 years and not as many trophies then they are fucking retarded. Also being honest, Robbie isn't as a great a manager as you think, he won us the CL which we are all grateful for but his tactical knowledge was useless, every team we've played, we've gave time and space on the ball this season. If some of the finishing was better, we'd be 7th or 8th not 3rd.

THIS!!!!

Honestly you guys think RDM was some managerial GOD

He was out of his depth in the training ground car park puddle...

It's not his fault, all happened a bit to quick for him. He needs to manage a team where he can try a Plan B.

I think the pressure got to him and in the end he was scared of making changes, that is not a good thing, your manager should have confidence in their ability - just didn't get that vibe from RDM

Always Rabbit in Headlights.

No denying he's a nice bloke, and legend - but just not think he has the 'mustard' at this level...