Non-Chelsea Transfer Pub

[Jype 6,398]

13 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

But sources who reported the £170,000 a week got the information from BILD, who initially went over the contract details before the deal was completed. After things were set and stone, BILD continued their investigation on his contract and are now reporting it's £270,000 a week, which includes a massive signing fee offered to Werner. 

I'm pretty sure Matt Law and the BBC, for example, have their own sources and fact-checking too.

I don't think it's a surprise that tier 1 sources in Germany report the figures higher and tier 1 sources in England report lower. Both have their own agendas and the truth is probably somewhere in between.

And like you said, the BILD report even includes a signing on bonus to arrive at that total figure. Pretty much all player transfers include sizable signing-on fees but they're usually not summed up in the weekly wages except when the media has an agenda and wants to inflate the figures as high as they can. And like I said above, I wouldn't be surprised at all if some of the weekly wages were also tied to performance-bonuses.

Obviously we can never know these things for sure without actually seeing the contract and tbh I couldn't really care less how much a player makes as long as he delivers on the pitch and the club can afford it. 

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52970103

 

bbc and constantin eckner have him on 175k

[MoroccanBlue 5,408]

32 minutes ago, Jype said:

I'm pretty sure Matt Law and the BBC, for example, have their own sources and fact-checking too.

I don't think it's a surprise that tier 1 sources in Germany report the figures higher and tier 1 sources in England report lower. Both have their own agendas and the truth is probably somewhere in between.

And like you said, the BILD report even includes a signing on bonus to arrive at that total figure. Pretty much all player transfers include sizable signing-on fees but they're usually not summed up in the weekly wages except when the media has an agenda and wants to inflate the figures as high as they can. And like I said above, I wouldn't be surprised at all if some of the weekly wages were also tied to performance-bonuses.

Obviously we can never know these things for sure without actually seeing the contract and tbh I couldn't really care less how much a player makes as long as he delivers on the pitch and the club can afford it. 

And I'm pretty sure Matt law and BBC got their information from Bild when it's widely known they were the first to break the story. And the signing on fee is equally distributed throughout the duration of his contract, hence the  £270,000 a week figure. Doesn't really scream 'agenda' if Blid initially said the deal was £170,000 a week figure.

23 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52970103

 

bbc and constantin eckner have him on 175k

Look at the publication date. Weeks before Werner signed and his contract was thoroughly investigated by Bild. 

[OneMoSalah 9,123]

5 hours ago, Jason said:

But is Jamal Lewis any good? Which striker are they targeting? Again, is he any good? 

Look past their first XI, their depth is really not that great - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_Liverpool_F.C._season#First-team_squad

People more than likely probably would have said the same about Andy Robertson when he first signed considering he came from a side that got relegated. Jamal Lewis does look in the sort of mould of fullback that Klopp likes and honestly I really dont think he’s any lesser a player that Reece James is imo so for a back up he’s ideal, plus hes young and still has huge room for improvement. 
 

16 hours ago, Jason said:

Klopp is gonna have to refresh that XI sooner or later. Salah and Mane turn 29 and Firmino turn 30 next year. Henderson is already 30, Milner is 34 and can't be viable backup for much longer. The likes of Keita, Oxlade-Chamberlain are hit-and-miss, Minamino hasn't convinced, Origi only good as sub. 

Yes refresh but he doesn’t need to overhaul the team hugely. You look at Alisson who is 27, Trent is 21, Joe Gomez is 23, Robertson is 26, Fabinho is 26. Still plenty of life in those guys and they will undoubtedly form the spine of their team. Also even van Dijk at 29, the very very good CBs tend to last to their early 30s.

Okay they need may to refresh the XI a bit in midfield but I really cannot see Salah and Mane slowing down for another 2 seasons minimum due to how often they’re injured and how well they clearly look after themselves. Firmino again, is he hugely reliant on his physical attributes as a footballer? No not really so again maybe another 2 seasons at least maybe more.

Yea they’ll need replaced eventually but this when someones approaching 30 and will automatically decline is ridiculously naive because you have to look at how often these guys have been injured over the years, how they prepare and look after themselves, what their playing styles are, how their teams play and everything else. Going by the 30 plus logic Lewandowski would of slowed down years ago, Robben and Ribery wouldnt have ever managed to play regularly under Pep. Ronaldo has probably gotten better after turning 30 and so has Ibrahimovich. Its got to be done case by case. Mane and Salah are both world class footballers as well and arguably so is Firmino so you wouldnt be half surprised if they kept going at a good level to 32 or 33. 

Their issues are that Keita hasn't ever done well enough on a consistent basis and neither has Oxlade-Chamberlain. Origi isnt the best player to start games but has he not scored some of the biggest goals in their CL win? Minamino probably needs more chances.

Even then if Klopp wants to retain the title and focus more on the short term and go for that, the CL, the cups next season, he doesnt have to go and spend the 250mn on players who are early 20s and will grow into longterm replacements for those players approaching 30. Maybe Thiago arrives for 30mn, maybe another CB, maybe a LB and maybe another forward player. They dont have to all be amazing amazing squad players. Good and dependable yes but don’t t have to be world class/top players. I mean look at City, how many top players for each position? Is it necessarily useful? Perhaps in some positions (forward areas) but everytime they’ve won something they've primarily used the same 15 or 16 players regularly throughout. 

[Strike 7,854]

8 hours ago, Jason said:

But is Jamal Lewis any good? Which striker are they targeting? Again, is he any good? 

Look past their first XI, their depth is really not that great - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_Liverpool_F.C._season#First-team_squad

Haven't seen who they're linked with but they have a record of targeting good players for a while now

[Jype 6,398]

3 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

And I'm pretty sure Matt law and BBC got their information from Bild when it's widely known they were the first to break the story. And the signing on fee is equally distributed throughout the duration of his contract, hence the  £270,000 a week figure. Doesn't really scream 'agenda' if Blid initially said the deal was £170,000 a week figure.

Matt Law has very close contacts directly at Chelsea too, why would he just go with what Bild are reporting without checking it by his own sources too? Would be quite unprofessional of him.

Either way, I would assume there to be a bit of truth in both figures. £170K basic wage with bonuses to potentially take it up significantly if he does well.

About the signing on fee, I wouldn't include that figure in his weekly wage to keep it more comparative to other players. Like I said before, pretty much any transfer has a signing fee included, the size of which is proportionate to the transfer fee and wages involved in the deal. If you want to include all signing fees and bonuses for Werner, you should probably include them for every other player too. If you include everything for Werner and go with the basic weekly wage for other players, you're only going to get confusing figures that have no correlation with each other.

And while we were talking about Sancho, I have no doubt he will get also be getting a big signing fee at United too on top of his basic wage which going by reports will be somewhere between £250-340K/wk. He's definitely going to be making a lot more money overall than Timo, just going by the fact he will be United's record signing and they tend to pay significantly higher wages than Chelsea anyways. But that's their business, couldn't really care less.

 

3 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Look at the publication date. Weeks before Werner signed and his contract was thoroughly investigated by Bild. 

The date on the BBC article is literally from the day he signed, June 18th. 

[Jase 43,479]

 

[MoroccanBlue 5,408]

23 minutes ago, Jype said:

Matt Law has very close contacts directly at Chelsea too, why would he just go with what Bild are reporting without checking it by his own sources too? Would be quite unprofessional of him.

So what are his sources then 

Last time I checked, Matt Law was notoriously known for taking stories from those that first broke it. 

23 minutes ago, Jype said:

Either way, I would assume there to be a bit of truth in both figures. £170K basic wage with bonuses to potentially take it up significantly if he does well.

About the signing on fee, I wouldn't include that figure in his weekly wage to keep it more comparative to other players. Like I said before, pretty much any transfer has a signing fee included, the size of which is proportionate to the transfer fee and wages involved in the deal. If you want to include all signing fees and bonuses for Werner, you should probably include them for every other player too. If you include everything for Werner and go with the basic weekly wage for other players, you're only going to get confusing figures that have no correlation with each other.

BILD's report literally goes into details that the signing on fees isn't a lump sum, they are going to be distributed throughout the remainder of his contract. Equally a total of  £270,000 a week. It isn't a number merely conjured up. 

https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/sport/fussball/fussball-international/timo-werner-zu-chelsea-top-verdiener-dank-xxl-vertrag-und-handgeld-71467720,view=conversionToLogin.bild.html

23 minutes ago, Jype said:

 

The date on the BBC article is literally from the day he signed, June 18th. 

You're right. The full extent of his contract wasn't discovered until a week later by Bild 

[Artandur 939]

7 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

So what are his sources then 

Last time I checked, Matt Law was notoriously known for taking stories from those that first broke it. 

BILD's report literally goes into details that the signing on fees isn't a lump sum, they are going to be distributed throughout the remainder of his contract. Equally a total of  £270,000 a week. It isn't a number merely conjured up. 

https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/sport/fussball/fussball-international/timo-werner-zu-chelsea-top-verdiener-dank-xxl-vertrag-und-handgeld-71467720,view=conversionToLogin.bild.html

You're right. The full extent of his contract wasn't discovered until a week later by Bild 

Mate there is conflicting info from different reliable sources. We have no way of knowing which is true. That's it. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,408]

3 minutes ago, Artandur said:

Mate there is conflicting info from different reliable sources. We have no way of knowing which is true. That's it. 

I'll stick with the source that initially broke it and then everyone hopped on it. Not to mention said source have actually done a thorough and detailed breakdown of the terms. 

It is amusing however seeing everyone try and rule out the concept that we are paying a player ridiculously high wages. 

[Special Juan 28,871]

Ake to City is done and signed.

[Artandur 939]

4 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

I'll stick with the source that initially broke it and then everyone hopped on it. Not to mention said source have actually done a thorough and detailed breakdown of the terms. 

It is amusing however seeing everyone try and rule out the concept that we are paying a player ridiculously high wages. 

I wrote we have no way to know, which is literally the exact opposite of ruling anything out.

[MoroccanBlue 5,408]

6 minutes ago, Artandur said:

I wrote we have no way to know, which is literally the exact opposite of ruling anything out.

Well that would just be an appeal to ignorance if we are ignoring Bild's initial report and their actual breakdown of Werner's contract. 

 

[Jype 6,398]

3 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

So what are his sources then 

Last time I checked, Matt Law was notoriously known for taking stories from those that first broke it. 

How the fuck should I know who gives him the info?

But in big news like confirmed transfers Law very obviously gets briefed by someone directly inside the club on the details. It's crazy to suggest otherwise. The best football journalists in England have close ties to the clubs and get briefed when something big happens, just see yesterday's reports on the development of the Sancho deal and you'll see the journalists were clearly briefed by United because there's no way they would publish 100% same articles at the same time if they weren't briefed in advance. The journos usually specialize in one club only, like Matt Law with Chelsea. 

 

3 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

BILD's report literally goes into details that the signing fees are going to be distributed throughout the remainder of his contract. Equally a total of  £270,000 a week. It isn't a number merely conjured up. 

Yeah, and like I said that while it may well be true the signing fees are very rarely added up to the weekly wages in news reports. The £11M signing fee inflates his weekly wage for £40K/wk.

Obviously on the club's financial records the one-off signing fee gets divided to the five year contract length just like the transfer fee etc. so in that regard it matters fuck all whether it's a signing fee or just a higher weekly salary but the only difference is how it gets reported in the media. I don't see signing fees added in media reports for other players so it's just the journalist going for a sensational headline by adding up everything. It may be true, but I'm just saying it's not how they are usually reported. 

But let's say for now that the overall £270K/wk figure is in fact true and £40K of that consists of the one-off signing fee which Werner has already been paid in full, that leaves £230K/wk. There's not that much of a difference to the £170K/wk reports that the British tier 1 sources were saying (BBC, Athletic, Matt Law) so I wouldn't rule out there being roughly £60K/wk worth of performance-related bonuses in Werner's contract depending on how many goals he scores, how the team perform in competitions etc. It could easily just be that BILD added all those up too and arrived at a total of £270K, no matter if the targets are ever reached or not.

But I'm not saying I'm 100% right, just something I would assume based on the reports of good English journalists and my own comparison to other deals Chelsea have made lately (RLC, CHO contracts) which also included a lot of performance-related add-ons. For example CHO's wage reports in the media were all over the place, but putting piece by piece together I can quite confidently assume he makes a £120K/wk basic wage and has bonuses to potentially take it up to £180K/wk if he reaches all targets (this season he obviously didn't).

 

16 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

I'll stick with the source that initially broke it and then everyone hopped on it. Not to mention said source have actually done a throughout and detailed breakdown and the terms. 

It is amusing however seeing everyone try and rule out the concept that we are paying a player high wages. 

No one is ruling out anything, just curious about as to why Werner's reported wage includes signing fee and possibly even some bonuses etc. all added together and pretty much every other players gets reported just their basic weekly wage. It's very obvious that Werner is getting paid a high wage by Chelsea's standards but I wouldn't just take £270K/wk at face value without looking at the specifics and compare that to all the other players in the squad.

Also, have you actually read the detailed breakdown from BILD yourself or are you just going by snippets you read on the internet? It's behind a paywall so I haven't seen the full article, would be very interested in reading the whole thing if possible.

[Pizy 19,381]

City certainly wasting no time. Wonder who else they're after.

[NikkiCFC 8,529]

Looks like Alaba only cares about money at this point.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,128]

49 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

BILD's report literally goes into details that the signing on fees isn't a lump sum, they are going to be distributed throughout the remainder of his contract. Equally a total of  £270,000 a week. It isn't a number merely conjured up.

A normal practice. It is why the weekly calculation of Sanchez's deal at ManU is so high and even going back a long time now, it is why Sol Campbell's deal at Arsenal was huge for the time.

[Ryan Fong 2,776]

It’s really hard to judge Pep’s coaching ability, after all he is THE biggest cheque book manager in the football history.

[Vesper 31,181]

22 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

They dont need much in all fairness. If they can keep the majority of the big hitters fit and playing  in 90% of the games they still will be top 2 easily. 

They lack a top creative midfield player and a couple squad players maybe but what about if Klopp plays youngsters instead to replace the likes of Lovren and Lallana? They've sold Lovren but the likes of van der Berg and Hoever can both play at CB and are both highly rated u18 Dutch internationals and Lallana again I mean his contribution last season was near non existent so a youngster can surely use up those minutes 100%. I mean weve all just spent a season lauding our manager for dumping David Luiz out the squad for Tomori, Luiz is a better CB than Lovren. 

Maybe they should of pushed for Werner more, I thought he would of been their top target, as they need a better CF/wide forward to back/rotate/compete with those guys maybe. Have no doubts he’d of played regularly there unlike what the likes of that crackhead Robbie Fowler and John Barnes came out saying after we got him.

If they get Thiago in midfield, who would fit in at any club in the PL and improve them as well as a good back up CF/winger, they are still gonna be right up there. I still fancy City to do it this year but I dont think anybody will break that City and Liverpool top 2 next season but the gap will hopefully be closer or at least the gap between us and wherever.

they have fuckall for depth, as I have painstakingly laid out on multiple occasions

they get a few key injuries they are fucked atm

[Jase 43,479]

Sanchez to complete his move to Inter Milan tomorrow...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/08/05/alexis-sanchez-complete-permanent-move-manchester-united-inter/