Welcome Mauricio Pochettino

[robsblubot 3,262]

It's also very convenient for underperforming players to blame the manager... just saying. It happens a lot too.

[Reddish-Blue 2,237]

5 hours ago, robsblubot said:

I just don't see the skill in this squad

We sold off Werner and Havertz like they were dragging this team down....and yet they're doing perfectly fine in more organised tactical systems. 

Also, we're not helped by the fact that our most skilled signings are nowhere near the pitch (Fofana, Lavia, Nkunku)....all 3 would be starters in the current setup. 

5 hours ago, robsblubot said:

I think Sterling issue is physical

I don't think it is, for Sterling, seems more like, he knows when he wants to give it a proper go and he'll switch on for that game....otherwise it's just another stock standard, run around and not really create much on the wings type of outing. 

 

[Fernando 6,388]

I still say if we improve our defense poch will look good so of a sudden. 

Our issue this season has been the bad defense. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,218]

20 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Hardly as simple as that. 

Re the cup final - in ET Liverpool run over the top of us. Particularly in midfield. We just had to match/better them physically and in terms of intensity but we didn’t. Liverpool get a bit of momentum, smell blood and well we bottle it.

Not as easy as saying it was to do with playing a high block, a low block, possession football or counter attacking football etc because either way, you still need to play with some intensity and physicality in all games regardless. For example, Atletico Madrid are one of these sides who play a low block and counter attacking style but they are a good physical side, very aggressive and play with intensity irrespective. 

And really, do you think that its much different from last season ? We had a naive group that looked so short of work ethic, desire, that sort of nastiness all top teams have a bit of and it hasn’t really changed again this season. We have moved on certain players from that group but a large % of the squad is still the same, particularly the lads who make up the £1bn investments over the summer and January windows.

The players need to take a lot of responsibility and show the fans they have more about them. When their own manager is saying that the team misses something, be it heart or balls or the right mentality or whatever he said, that is extremely alarming. Or it should be for them.

Imagine if Conte said that or Jose said that or Ancelotti said that about past Chelsea teams they’ve managed - you’d be worried.

With this crowd, it doesn’t surprise me. A lot of them are soft, the squad sorely lacks real leadership and quality throughout. Poch isn’t the best manager out there either amongst other things which has its own problems but he isn’t the big reason as to why this group is struggling, the players are. 

Did we watch the same final? Last 10-15 minutes before the full time whistle during regular time, we were all over Liverpool. Momentum was heavily on our side and 99% of the world were suggesting we'd win it in extra time if we kept pushing. We didn't. Liverpool 'smelled blood', because Poch allowed them to. He then had the gull to say the players were tired (yet we only have 1 game a week) and implied he wanted to play for penalties because, in vintage Poch fashion, he shat the bed when he needed to be assertive. This isn't just a one off scenario either. Poch's game management is among the worst in the league. We are 18th as far as league table goes in minute 45-90. 

You will never convince me that we have players worse than the likes of Wolves, West Ham, Villa, and Brighton. Never.  Poch can keep banging on about the underlying numbers are in his favour, how we ‘should’ be higher in the table but part of your job as a manager is extracting performance in all areas so you can only bemoan poor finishing for so long before you have to start looking at your training methods/man management. And it is a results business at the end of the day. 39% win rate just isn’t good enough. No where near. 

[milka 3,308]

2 hours ago, Fernando said:

I still say if we improve our defense poch will look good so of a sudden. 

Our issue this season has been the bad defense. 

No one manager can turn these players because they are not good enough to be at Chelsea . None of them will even be on the team's bench in 2021. At best rotation players for domestic cups but we overhyping these players after every good game they have.

Edited April 2 by milka

[MoroccanBlue 5,218]

2 minutes ago, milka said:

No one manager can turn these players because they are not good enough to be at Chelsea . None of them will even be on the team's bench in 2021. At best rotation players for domestic cups but we overhyping these players after every good game they have.

We said the same thing about Rudiger and Christensen in 2020 and people throwing the idea of selling Kante and Kovacic because they were pointless under Lampard. 

[milka 3,308]

There is no way to compare proven names like Rudiger,Kante, Kovacic with unproven ones like these we have today.  They needed an elite coach that Lampard was not for his time.

[MoroccanBlue 5,218]

2 minutes ago, milka said:

There is no way to compare proven names like Rudiger,Kante, Kovacic with unproven ones like these we have today.  They needed an elite coach that Lampard was not for his time.

Which just shows how detrimental having a poor manager can be when even experienced players look like shit. Kinda like how even Silva, James, Chilwell, and Sterling have been among our worst performers.

[milka 3,308]

Yep we come to the conclusion, which is clear, that Pochettino is not a top coach and our managment is poor .Our best players Palmer and Gallagher can hardly even be on the bench for the teams of the last 10 years, let's be real which tells you what level we have .

[MoroccanBlue 5,218]

51 minutes ago, milka said:

Yep we come to the conclusion, which is clear, that Pochettino is not a top coach and our managment is poor .Our best players Palmer and Gallagher can hardly even be on the bench for the teams of the last 10 years, let's be real which tells you what level we have .

Both things can be true. We don't have a Top 4 side but we certainly don't have an 11th place side. 

[robsblubot 3,262]

48 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Both things can be true. We don't have a Top 4 side but we certainly don't have an 11th place side. 

You may be right if you consider the full roster, but with the injuries?! Dunno don’t see which players would be getting us points aside from the ones who have been getting us points already.

There is also the point of an unbalanced squad. Like poor options on the left side, striker, and poor options to change the shape of the midfield for ex. How does a manager make our middle significantly more creative? Without dropping quality? I think even RLC would’ve been a tremendous option at this time… at least he’s different from our mid trio in characteristics.

I disagree regarding Andreas and rudiger. Aside from a few people frustrated with them, the majority thought they were good players. I’ve always rated Andreas for what he is.

 

[MoroccanBlue 5,218]

43 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

You may be right if you consider the full roster, but with the injuries?! Dunno don’t see which players would be getting us points aside from the ones who have been getting us points already.

There is also the point of an unbalanced squad. Like poor options on the left side, striker, and poor options to change the shape of the midfield for ex. How does a manager make our middle significantly more creative? Without dropping quality? I think even RLC would’ve been a tremendous option at this time… at least he’s different from our mid trio in characteristics.

I disagree regarding Andreas and rudiger. Aside from a few people frustrated with them, the majority thought they were good players. I’ve always rated Andreas for what he is.

 

Newcastle and Brighton have had more injuries whilst being in Europe and they are still ahead of us in the table. The latter has been stripped head to toe. 

Not buying the poor options argument. Exclude penalties, Jackson is the 8th highest goal scorer in the league. Palmer is going to end the season with 40 goal contributions. Sterling, despite being selfish, has a goal contribution every other game in the Premier League. Mudryk and Madueke have among the best contributions per 90 out of any bench options in the league. Enzo has among the best long ball pass accuracy and most progressive passes in the league, and Caicedo despite people claiming is shit, has better defensive metrics than Rice this season. I just don't buy it. These are talented players let down by poor game management. 

Go take a trip down memory lane in 2020 and see threads about Rudiger, Christensen, and Kante. 

[Laylabelle 9,305]

1 hour ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Both things can be true. We don't have a Top 4 side but we certainly don't have an 11th place side. 

Say more 6th..7th..8th.. no way near top 4 and won't be for a while unless things change. 

[robsblubot 3,262]

11 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Newcastle and Brighton have had more injuries whilst being in Europe and they are still ahead of us in the table. The latter has been stripped head to toe. 

Not buying the poor options argument. Exclude penalties, Jackson is the 8th highest goal scorer in the league. Palmer is going to end the season with 40 goal contributions. Sterling, despite being selfish, has a goal contribution every other game in the Premier League. Mudryk and Madueke have among the best contributions per 90 out of any bench options in the league. Enzo has among the best long ball pass accuracy and most progressive passes in the league, and Caicedo despite people claiming is shit, has better defensive metrics than Rice this season. I just don't buy it. These are talented players let down by poor game management. 

Go take a trip down memory lane in 2020 and see threads about Rudiger, Christensen, and Kante. 

I really don't understand how some people disregard options esp in the modern game where there is simply no starting XI anymore and the selected starting XI never ever! play for 90 minutes. 🤷‍♂️

I read your stats very differently: all our goals come from the same players, which is not that great esp because the numbers aren't fantastic. "Mudryk and Madueke have among the best contributions per 90" this has to be the most useless stat in my book, sorry. Both are poor players (linkup, poor first touch etc). I can find better players in pretty much every club in the top half of the PL.

"and Caicedo despite people claiming is shit, has better defensive metrics than Rice this season"
On the other hand, Rice has 10x better attacking numbers, doesn't he? Caicedo is awful in attack. I happen to rate Rice a lot higher than Caicedo, but that's me.

Once again, without considering the injured payers, how do you improve our midfield? How do you make the midfield more creative? Do you think we get enough goals and assists from the mid trio? I like Gallagher, but he's not a skillful or creative player. Enzo, albeit more skillful, isn't that player either.

"Go take a trip down memory lane in 2020 and see threads about Rudiger, Christensen, and Kante."
I don't care about what someone wrote 4 years ago. I don't have to agree and never did agree with all the criticisms back then. Andreas was always a good ball-playing CB in my book and Ruddier was mostly hindered by injuries.

We give opinions: sometimes we are right and sometimes we are wrong about players.
I don't see the quality you see in this roster. I think some of these players will never play for another top club in their careers.

[MoroccanBlue 5,218]

Just now, robsblubot said:

I really don't understand how some people disregard options esp in the modern game where there is simply no starting XI anymore and the selected starting XI never ever! play for 90 minutes. 🤷‍♂️

I read your stats very differently: all our goals come from the same players, which is not that great esp because the numbers aren't fantastic. "Mudryk and Madueke have among the best contributions per 90" this has to be the most useless stat in my book, sorry. Both are poor players (linkup, poor first touch etc). I can find better players in pretty much every club in the top half of the PL.

"and Caicedo despite people claiming is shit, has better defensive metrics than Rice this season"
On the other hand, Rice has 10x better attacking numbers, doesn't he? Caicedo is awful in attack. I happen to rate Rice a lot higher than Caicedo, but that's me.

Once again, without considering the injured payers, how do you improve our midfield? How do you make the midfield more creative? Do you think we get enough goals and assists from the mid trio? I like Gallagher, but he's not a skillful or creative player. Enzo, albeit more skillful, isn't that player either.

"Go take a trip down memory lane in 2020 and see threads about Rudiger, Christensen, and Kante."
I don't care about what someone wrote 4 years ago. I don't have to agree and never did agree with all the criticisms back then. Andreas was always a good ball-playing CB in my book and Ruddier was mostly hindered by injuries.

We give opinions: sometimes we are right and sometimes we are wrong about players.
I don't see the quality you see in this roster. I think some of these players will never play for another top club in their careers.

Go on and find me better bench players at other clubs that have more goal involvements per 90 than Mudryk and Madueke if its such a useless stat then? You bang on like a constant drum about how poor our players allegedly are and I am showing you the underlying metrics which proves they aren't as shit as you are making them out to be. 

The injuries excuse has little to no baring when the issue at hand is his game management. How do we improve our midfield and make it more creative? It's the managers job to be extracting performance in all areas and if you are 9 months in and it still isn't working, you then need to start looking at your training methods/man management and tactical decisions. We have a manager who in this day in age would take prime Riqulme and bench him because he isn't a running merchant. 

[robsblubot 3,262]

33 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Go on and find me better bench players at other clubs that have more goal involvements per 90 than Mudryk and Madueke if its such a useless stat then? You bang on like a constant drum about how poor our players allegedly are and I am showing you the underlying metrics which proves they aren't as shit as you are making them out to be. 

The injuries excuse has little to no baring when the issue at hand is his game management. How do we improve our midfield and make it more creative? It's the managers job to be extracting performance in all areas and if you are 9 months in and it still isn't working, you then need to start looking at your training methods/man management and tactical decisions. We have a manager who in this day and age would take prime Riqulme and bench him because he isn't a running merchant. 

There is nothing factual about any of that. I’m providing opinions, but I don’t pretend they are factual. 🤷‍♂️ 

mudryk and Madueke are poor options imo.

my opinion remains we have some shit players who will never play for another top club again. We will be proven right or wrong in time. And it will make no difference whatsoever.

Edited April 2 by robsblubot

[robsblubot 3,262]

It's so strange to hear Poch did this or that against Liverpool in the final. The only remotely defensive-minded sub was Challobah for Chilwell, who was prob dead and buried by then given his fitness levels. To balance it out, he replaced Gallagher with Madueke, so we ended up having more attacking players in that extra time.

Speaking of which, both Madueke and Mudryk did fuck all against Liverpool kids with acres of space against their high line in those 30 min of extra time. Nkunku was on the pitch as well, and just as ineffective, but that guy has hardly played this season.... injuries.... So, no, the players don't get a pass from me.

Edited April 3 by robsblubot

[OneMoSalah 8,619]

17 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Go on and find me better bench players at other clubs that have more goal involvements per 90 than Mudryk and Madueke if its such a useless stat then? You bang on like a constant drum about how poor our players allegedly are and I am showing you the underlying metrics which proves they aren't as shit as you are making them out to be. 

The injuries excuse has little to no baring when the issue at hand is his game management. How do we improve our midfield and make it more creative? It's the managers job to be extracting performance in all areas and if you are 9 months in and it still isn't working, you then need to start looking at your training methods/man management and tactical decisions. We have a manager who in this day in age would take prime Riqulme and bench him because he isn't a running merchant. 

So if we are using underlying metrics for players then what about Poch saying we would be fourth based on underlying metrics this season? You’re not going to convince anybody Mudryk and Noni are good players based on underlying metrics either. They are awful. People can see that with their eyes. Theres a reason they are bench players in one of the worst sides we have had in ages. Thats just further proof that underlying metrics are shite.

Irrespectively of who’s to blame be it players or managers as a collective, the individual and collective performances is extraordinarily poor considering the value of the squad.