The Tuchel Thread

[Jase 43,479]

6 minutes ago, Mana said:

I said clearly AS IT STANDS. Adding Lukaku changes the outcome. But does that make us title challengers? Liverpool and to an extent United have the squads to challenge City, do we?

I'm not underestimating TT, but he has too much of a job here for us to be consistent enough with these players. We need better players in the midfield. And we still have a LB issue, we have gone back to using Alonso, while I appreciate TT trying to squeeze everything he could with this guy Alonso is not good enough.

While they have proven to do very good cup runs (which I said BEFORE), they have NOT proven to be consistent enough in the 38 game fucking league. Open your fucking eyes to that then we can have a discussion.

Seriously, since you're so confident that we will have no hope this season, why don't you just agree to @Tomo's wager? Stick your neck on the line. 

[Tomo 21,751]

11 minutes ago, Mana said:

I said clearly AS IT STANDS. Adding Lukaku changes the outcome. But does that make us title challengers? Liverpool and to an extent United have the squads to challenge City, do we?

I'm not underestimating TT, but he has too much of a job here for us to be consistent enough with these players. We need better players in the midfield. And we still have a LB issue, we have gone back to using Alonso, while I appreciate TT trying to squeeze everything he could with this guy Alonso is not good enough.

While they have proven to do very good cup runs (which I said BEFORE), they have NOT proven to be consistent enough in the 38 game fucking league. Open your fucking eyes to that then we can have a discussion.

So you don't think we will challenge because we ain't proven over 38 games?

Ok lets say i accept that, why on the same basis do you think United have a chance of seriously challenging despite their current squad and manager's track record of producing 0 out of 10s when the medals are on the line?

[Warning_Hazard 156]

Said it before will say it again, IF man city buy kane the PL is done and dusted.

Mana is losing me also, Judging the squad just back from holidays even though we won last night against a very good villareal says it all for me!

 

 

[Tomo 21,751]

6 minutes ago, Mana said:

Explain "no hope". No hope for the league? Or no hope for top 4? If it's the former, maybe I would.

I didn't say United will win the league. As I said is challenging, which is different. They finished 2nd last season, let's not forget that. They have a better squad than us, as proven in the last two seasons.

So hypothetically speaking, if Tuchel was in charge for full season last term, you don't think he'd have had us the seven more points required to get us above United? 

[Jase 43,479]

13 minutes ago, Mana said:

Ok. Saying "I'm worried, that we won't improve" == "Top 4 is gone, end of the world" in your terms. By the way, not improving doesn't mean we are going to be worse. It just means we are going to stay roughly the same. So if we clinch 4th on the final day of the season, what I said is right. We haven't improved in terms of league position and performances, but we did the minimal requirements just like the past 2 seasons. With all that 350m+ spending, are you going to sit there and tell me still finishing 4th was a success?

Unless you have looked into the future, you don't what exactly is gonna happen. 

If we scrape into the Top 4 again with the inconsistency, low points tally etc, then sure I'd agree with you. But if we finish in the Top 4, with improved consistency, more points overall and maybe just fall short of the title on top of that, then I'd say that's an improvement at the very least. 

13 minutes ago, Mana said:

But these are the same excuses I've heard for the past number of seasons now. The players we saw pre-season play more or less the same they did last season, except Ziyech who was finding the net.

The SC could give us a good indicator on what is going to happen in the next few games. I'll be eating my hat if a player like Werner starts banging goals in the first few games of the season.

Are people really that used with us buying finished articles in the past and just winning things?

Progression and improvement don't just happen overnight, even more so the circumstances mentioned earlier weren't exactly in our favor.

13 minutes ago, Mana said:

o I'm not allowed to post my concerns until 3 months have passed?

You're already out here proclaiming the worst for us this season...after ONE game! So, is it too much to ask that maybe you just wait and see how things play out after the first few weeks/months of the season?

[Jase 43,479]

10 minutes ago, Mana said:

Explain "no hope". No hope for the league? Or no hope for top 4? If it's the former, maybe I would.

How about both? No title and no Top 4. That would be a shit season for you, right?

[Warning_Hazard 156]

12 minutes ago, Jase said:

How about both? No title and no Top 4. That would be a shit season for you, right?

It would for me, And im sure the board will get knee-jerky if that happens!

Top 4 minimum with an eye to challenge for I

[YorkshireBlue 3,264]

Tired of hearing if we buy this or don't buy that we will miss out on top 4 or challenge for the league..... we aint the only club buying players man city and united are both improving, so if they improve n we improve and we finish in the top 4 then technically we are still going forward because we are staying kinda level with these teams. If we was the only team to bring in improvements and then fell short I could see ppls point of view.

[Atomiswave 6,117]

TT is fucking proper, this dude shits gold I swear

[Superblue 6,372]

I think the top 4 this season will end up finishing a fair distance from the pack and to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if any of them went on to win the league. I think all carry some positives and negatives.

Two big issues for us last season we've at least addressed being (1) we're starting the season with an elite coach and to boot, one that has now had 6 months experience in the league and with the squad, and (2) buying a striker who regardless of what people think of him should score goals.

Unless someone goes and puts a 100 point season on the board, I'd be shocked if we're not much closer this season. Another trophy or two to add to the Super Cup this season and getting to within 5-10 points of the top of the table I think would be a very good year to continue to show progress and build on. 

[Warning_Hazard 156]

17 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

TT is fucking proper, this dude shits gold I swear

Calm down ya wurzel!!

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, Mana said:

I agree it doesn't happen overnight, but you are talking as if these players are new to the club. They have been playing first team football for at least 2 years, some of them 3+ years. 

Yes but the squad underwent major changes over the last two summers (excluding this year). In 2019, it was all about using the academy players. In 2020, we bought new attacking players. Then of course, a pandemic happened and threw everything out of the window. Players suffered injuries or COVID in Havertz's case. Players suffered loss of form, confidence. Manager got sacked midway through the season and a new one was appointed. Add all of that up and we have a not-so-smooth circumstances with the team. With minimal changes to the squad this time around and having a proper coach as manager for a change, it's not silly to expect the players to improve, both as individual and collectively. If they don't, then we can talk about changes next summer.

2 hours ago, Mana said:

You look at Werner for example. Hand on heart, be honest. Do you think he'll score 20+ goals in a season for us? Will he be that type of player we all wish he'll be? Yes we don't know. I'm not God, I don't have a crystal ball. But record HAS shown from other players...with an exception of Drogba if a player doesn't do well in his debut season, most likely he's a flop of a player.

No, I don't see Werner getting 20+ goals per season for us but I do expect him to score at least 10-15 goals, considering he's a wide forward rather than an out-and-out striker. Do that and he would be a serviceable player for us, just like the likes of Pedro etc.

I don't know why people are keen to label players as flops. How exactly is Werner a flop when he literally played a full part in our Champions League success last season (and I'm not just talking about the goals) for example? Not putting Werner in the same pedestal as Drogba but think Mourinho once said that one should judge a player's legacy when he leaves the club (or something along those lines). So how about we see what Werner does with his Chelsea career? Moreover, just as a player can fall away after starting well at a club, the same logic can be applied the other way round. Morata is probably one example and another is Pulisic. The latter did well in his debut season but hasn't been the same since, despite not suffering any serious injury since last November. 

2 hours ago, Mana said:

Then we have players from the other end of the spectrum like Alonso, Jorginho etc. who are very limited players at least in a Chelsea shirt. You seriously can't think these players will improve overtime to the standard we want them to be?

Those players are limited but I would say they have been serviceable to the team at the very least.

When I mentioned about players improving, I meant the younger ones as well as collectively. 

[Jase 43,479]

If Tuchel wins at least one more trophy, he'll become the 4th manager in the club's history to win at least 3 trophies, after Vialli (5), Mourinho (8) and Ancelotti (3). BUT if the Community Shield is excluded, then he would the 3rd.

[Mário César 1,233]

Feeling nice to finally win a supercup after lose several times. Its hard to believe that we finally manage to won this type of trophies again

[robsblubot 3,595]

Super smart from tuchel to let it go into pks too so to end the penalties curse. 😉

Tuchel’s squad management seems to be spot on for the start of the season. He’s playing the most fit, which clearly gives us an edge considering how uneven it is typically at this time. 

kudos to the preseason prep because we have several players flying high at the moment. While perhaps not match fit just yet, they are all running like dogs.