Super Frank Thread

[Fulham Broadway 16,838]

Tonights game must have confused a lot of the 'Frank Out' merchants. They'll have to wait till the next loss to impart their forensic knowledge on why Frank is rubbish

[Tomo 21,733]

6 minutes ago, Jason said:

I really don't know what to think anymore. There's just no consistency in our attacking play. One game we look exciting to watch and the next we look as if we're being managed by Big Sam or Tony Pulis. What's worse is that we have all these attacking options - even with 1 or 2 out - and our football still look predictable at times. We don't look to be getting the best out of anyone. 

I think Lampard is good at getting tunes out of some players on an individual basis (prime example he turned Pulisic from a player with doubts over end product to our talisman, if we want to blame him for defensive issues of last season and team play issues he should by the same token get praise for the improvement of Puli under him) but he's got to work out a way to knit it all together. 

With two freak teams to overhaul to win the title, we need a lot more variation to our play. Aslong as the results are respectable I'll give him time for that but between now and May serious progress needs to be had on that score.

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I think Lampard is good at getting tunes out of some players on an individual basis (prime example he turned Pulisic from a player with doubts over end product to our talisman, if we want to blame him for defensive issues of last season and team play issues he should by the same token get praise for the improvement of Puli under him) but he's got to work out a way to knit it all together. 

With two freak teams to overhaul to win the title, we need a lot more variation to our play. Aslong as the results are respectable I'll give him time for that but between now and May serious progress needs to be had on that score.

There should have been a system in place by now but every game, the attacking play is different.

[Tomo 21,733]

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

There should have been a system in place by now but every game, the attacking play is different.

Well as you know from Mou, I won't hesitate to alter my opinion if/when it gets to the point I believe it's best for the club.

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Well as you know from Mou, I won't hesitate to alter my opinion if/when it gets to the point I believe it's best for the club.

The worry I have is the board would not care about the style or whether we have a cohesive system in place if Lampard keeps getting the results and ends up achieving the targets - e.g. finish in the Top 4. I know we are in a result business but all that pragmatic style from Mourinho, Conte is what that has left us behind the likes of Liverpool and Man City and the board didn't care much because we were winning trophies. Would be a fucking travesty if we have all these talented players but do not utilize them properly to win things and dominate the competition and the players, one by one, leave for elsewhere...

[Tomo 21,733]

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

The worry I have is the board would not care about the style or whether we have a cohesive system in place if Lampard keeps getting the results and ends up achieving the targets - e.g. finish in the Top 4. I know we are in a result business but all that pragmatic style from Mourinho, Conte is what that has left us behind the likes of Liverpool and Man City and the board didn't care much because we were winning trophies. Would be a fucking travesty if we have all these talented players but do not utilize them properly to win things and dominate the competition and the players, one by one, leave for elsewhere...

In fairness would anyone in the PL other than us (and maybe City) have dismissed Conte a year after a title win? For all the messes we have got in, we're very sharp at rectifying them (Kepa and Bakayoko).

Roman would never let us drift, he's (rightly all things considered) giving Lamps more leeway than others but that will only go so far.

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, Tomo said:

In fairness would anyone in the PL other than us (and maybe City) have dismissed Conte a year after a title win? For all the messes we have got in, we're very sharp at rectifying them (Kepa and Bakayoko).

Roman would never let us drift, he's (rightly all things considered) giving Lamps more leeway than others but that will only go so far.

Well, Conte's second season? Reckon we would have kept him had he not went all gloomy and just gave up that season, despite some of the turgid football. 

[Blue Armour 4,278]

1 hour ago, killer1257 said:

People again expect too much. RJ, Chilli and Ziyech injured. Key players injured and Pulisic is still not at his best.

Our midfield like I stated many times is not as good as TC claims it to be.

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk
 

Yeah, our central attacking midfielders need to do better. Mount works hard and creates chances (underrated in that aspect), Kovacic also a hard worker, but both of them need more end product.

I'm not putting much expectations on Havertz at this point, so hopefully someone else can step in. Wouldn't be against Ziyech being deployed there, or at a stretch, Gilmour. Both of these two would be more decisive around the final third, I think.

[Puliiszola 519]

3 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

Yeah, our central attacking midfielders need to do better. Mount works hard and creates chances (underrated in that aspect), Kovacic also a hard worker, but both of them need more end product.

I'm not putting much expectations on Havertz at this point, so hopefully someone else can step in. Wouldn't be against Ziyech being deployed there, or at a stretch, Gilmour. Both of these two would be more decisive around the final third, I think.

I thought our midfield instantly got better as soon as kante went to 6 and jorginho was subbed out. The trio of kova-kante-mount is industrious, has a ball carrier in kova, has a decent creator in mount and a wall in front of the defence in kante. Don't think the mid is the problem at all.

I feel our attack has severely let us down so far. Let's be honest, werner could easily have had 2 goals last night, and he could easily be the top scorer in PL. Instead he is on a 8-9 game goalless streak. Puli has not been firing as you would expect him too, plus ziyech and puli injuries. Kai has been sub-sub-par. 4 of our best attackers have been poor or average at best.

[Alabama 1,992]

3 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

I thought our midfield instantly got better as soon as kante went to 6 and jorginho was subbed out. The trio of kova-kante-mount is industrious, has a ball carrier in kova, has a decent creator in mount and a wall in front of the defence in kante. Don't think the mid is the problem at all.

I feel our attack has severely let us down so far. Let's be honest, werner could easily have had 2 goals last night, and he could easily be the top scorer in PL. Instead he is on a 8-9 game goalless streak. Puli has not been firing as you would expect him too, plus ziyech and puli injuries. Kai has been sub-sub-par. 4 of our best attackers have been poor or average at best.

That's the problem many TC posters fails to realise....absence of Jorginho instantly improves our central attacking midfielders even Mount begins to dribble and move the ball so quick while Kovacic dribbling open aces of space for our attackers to operate...I wish we have someone to come in for Kante when he becomes unavailable or we go all out for Rice... its crystal clear our best formation is 433...

[Fernando 6,455]

I expected us to win but I'm disappointed in how we played. 

I'm with @Tomo   I think the template should be coming along. Right now I don't know where we are heading.

That being said it's December, let's see how we end the season. 

[manpe 10,861]

19 hours ago, Jason said:

I really don't know what to think anymore. There's just no consistency in our attacking play. One game we look exciting to watch and the next we look as if we're being managed by Big Sam or Tony Pulis. What's worse is that we have all these attacking options - even with 1 or 2 out - and our football still look predictable at times. We don't look to be getting the best out of anyone. 

 

18 hours ago, Jason said:

There should have been a system in place by now but every game, the attacking play is different.

When was the last time we had consistent, systematic attack throughout the season? Probably Conte's title season after the formation change, but that's it. Under Mourinho, Conte and Sarri our attacking play was just as chaotic as you're describing, and they were considered world class coaches. Hard to expect that from a rookie coach with a young and naive team.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

3 minutes ago, manpe said:

Hard to expect that from a rookie coach with a young and naive team

He needs to drill this shit onto the team....you dont get many breaks at elite level. FL is a winner himself we all know this, so fucking drill the same mentality to the players.

[manpe 10,861]

20 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

He needs to drill this shit onto the team....you dont get many breaks at elite level. FL is a winner himself we all know this, so fucking drill the same mentality to the players.

There is probably a lot of drilling going on at the training ground, but if it were that easy, then the veteran managers I mentioned wouldn't have struggled with similar issues. Let them learn and gain experience.

[Jase 43,479]

44 minutes ago, manpe said:

When was the last time we had consistent, systematic attack throughout the season? Probably Conte's title season after the formation change, but that's it. Under Mourinho, Conte and Sarri our attacking play was just as chaotic as you're describing, and they were considered world class coaches.

Mourinho didn't really have one when his was (and still is) more about letting individuals do the attacking work. Sarri has one in theory but never really came off and we ended up relying on Hazard to do something in the final third.

Considering Lampard has been here for 18 months and not 18 weeks, I don't think it's unfair to expect a little more cohesive than what we see at times, some tactical ingenuity from him.

54 minutes ago, manpe said:

Hard to expect that from a rookie coach with a young and naive team.

Does not mean we should not expect at all since Lampard is the manager of Chelsea FC after all. You see young managers elsewhere and you can identify their ideas, style etc.

And this was always gonna be a problem when the club decided to hire Lampard. Normally, young managers would hone their skills, get the experience etc at smaller clubs first before getting the big job. But Lampard got the big job after only 1 year of experience as a manager and we basically became an "experimental ground" for Lampard. We want to be successful but at the same time, we also live and die by Lampard's own inexperience and some times naive mistakes. One best hope that his inexperience doesn't hold us back too much and too long from challenging and winning titles.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

1 hour ago, manpe said:

There is probably a lot of drilling going on at the training ground, but if it were that easy, then the veteran managers I mentioned wouldn't have struggled with similar issues. Let them learn and gain experience.

Yes thats fair enough but FL been here for 18months Manpe, WH yesterday played much the better footy imo. I really hope FL gets the job done, what a lovely story that would be.

[communicate 2,703]

On 12/22/2020 at 7:50 AM, Blue Armour said:

Yeah, our central attacking midfielders need to do better. Mount works hard and creates chances (underrated in that aspect), Kovacic also a hard worker, but both of them need more end product.

I'm not putting much expectations on Havertz at this point, so hopefully someone else can step in. Wouldn't be against Ziyech being deployed there, or at a stretch, Gilmour. Both of these two would be more decisive around the final third, I think.

It is rare for central midfielder to get numbers. They have to be damn good passer to produce assist from deeper role (cesc) , or have license to vacate his area to attack the box and have good long shot (lampard), or simply you allow them to play higher (silva+kdb) 

Mount number has dropped from last year simply because he is playing deeper to accommodate Werner and Chilwell. 

[communicate 2,703]

22 hours ago, manpe said:

 

When was the last time we had consistent, systematic attack throughout the season? Probably Conte's title season after the formation change, but that's it. Under Mourinho, Conte and Sarri our attacking play was just as chaotic as you're describing, and they were considered world class coaches. Hard to expect that from a rookie coach with a young and naive team.

Actually last year it was quite nice especially after we play 433,it was quite clear how we want to attack. Pulisic supported by full back on the left, being fed by Kovacic, perfect. On the right Willian hold the ball high, while mount making channel run with james playing deeper delivering his trademark cross from deep. In the middle we had Giroud and Barkley attacking the box.